Sometimes, just when you think your long relationship nightmare is finally over, the character disordered person you’ve managed to separate from begins causing you no end of trouble. From spreading lies about you to your relatives, friends, and acquaintances, to engaging in several tactics to make things as difficult as possible for you, your ex can become just as ominous and troublesome a presence in your life as he or she was when you were together. This often leads you to wondering whether you will ever be truly free of their destructive influence. And while there’s no simple prescription for successfully overcoming these issues, there are some general principles you can adopt that if you adhere to faithfully, will, over time, help you claim a new, freer, and more empowered life.
As I point out in Character Disturbance, the most severely disturbed characters come in two forms: narcissists (non-aggressive egoists), and the various types of aggressive (aggressive-narcissistic) personalities. And these personality types don’t take the notion of “losing” very easily. For narcissists, it’s too big an insult to their monumental and pathological pride to think that someone they viewed as not only their possession but also their “extension” has claimed their own life. And for the aggressive personalities, the thought of someone else “winning” and therefore sabotaging their endless quest for domination is simply abhorrent. So when you leave one of these impaired characters, you can almost always expect that there will be some kind of hell to pay.
One of the more insidious consequences of being in a toxic relationship is getting into the habit of focusing externally and investing precious energy attempting to control things in your external environment. I’ve counselled hundreds of individuals who found themselves constantly wondering what their character-impaired partner might do next, what mess they might create, what might have to be done to appease them or minimize the damage they might do, etc. And these individuals eventually not only desensitized themselves to destructive habit of focusing externally but also in the process became deluded that they’d somehow achieved a level of control over the dysfunctional behavior of their partner and other things over which they had no real control. And as I first suggested in my book In Sheep’s Clothing and have written about in several blog posts (see, for example: Toxic Relationship Aftermath: Doubt, Mistrust, and Paranoia?, Aftermath of a Toxic Relationship Part Two, and Toxic Relationship Aftermath: A Wrap Up), focusing time and energy on people, places, things, and outcomes – all of which are not really possible for you to control – is the perfect recipe for frustration, anger, anxiety, and eventually, depression. It’s the surest pathway to the loss of personal power and any sense of joy in living. For these reasons, I’ve always stressed how important it is to embrace some key principles for re-directing personal energy into areas where you have the power to make a real difference. Those same principles can be applied when your ex trashes your reputation or engages in other behaviors to make your life difficult. They include:
When it comes to addressing reputation issues:
- Don’t try to counter or refute every falsehood. Prioritize. Some things are big deals, and others aren’t by comparison. Focus on the bigger issues. And don’t waste your time trying to disprove a lie. It’s almost impossible to prove something said about you isn’t true. Simply affirm that the lie is not true. Let your own integrity and history of reliability and trustworthiness lend credence to your assertion. And if you find someone in your inner circle who’s either inadvertently or deliberately helping to spread falsehoods, confront the situation directly, affirming what’s true and what isn’t and making a simple, direct, benign but firm request that the person stop enabling the spread of destructive gossip.
- Don’t engage in counter-trashing of the character of your ex. Some folks waste an awful lot of precious emotional energy striving to “out” what they believe to be their ex’s true character. They want the whole world to know the kind of person their ex really is and it riles them to think that their ex-partner has been so successful in the art of impression management that many are bamboozled. But rather than try to expose your ex’s true character, focus your energy and attention on what you really want folk to know and appreciate about you. Don’t engage in counter-character assassination but merely attest to the integrity of your own character. In time, it will become crystal clear not only who your genuine friends are but also what kind of folks (i.e. those who can truly recognize and appreciate nobility of character) you really want to have within your inner circle.
- If you have made some mistakes or done some things you’re not proud of, “own” them and do your best to make amends where possible. It’s important to be the person you want those closest to you to think you are. Do your best not to make the same mistakes over and over again. Strive to be regarded as a person who has not only learned from past mistakes but also has grown and matured as a result of those mistakes. And don’t be afraid to be known as someone who will readily admit shortcomings. This gives you much greater credibility when refuting lies.
When it comes to the crazy behavior of your ex:
- Remember that no matter what you say or do, in the end you can’t control this person. You might delude yourself into thinking that you can control the outcome of events and even his or her behavior by the actions you take, but in reality, when it comes to someone else’s behavior, only they have the power. So when you take action, make sure you’re not trying to control someone else or the outcome of events but rather simply serving your own best interests. Decide what your limits are and what actions you’re prepared to take to defend your boundaries, then enforce those limits and boundaries. Then, as hard as it is to do so, let the rest go. Divorce yourself from the notion that you can control anything more than than your own behavior. What you’ll find is that in time, you will feel more vital and empowered and your ex will feel increasingly powerless to control you.
- Don’t be a doormat either. Don’t throw up your hands and say you can’t do anything to improve your situation. And don’t let anger, bitterness, and resentment get the better of you. Sometimes you can get inordinately “hung-up” at the thought that you’re having to pay the price of working so hard to make things better in your life while your character disordered ex seems to be getting away with murder, just like always. But to really move forward, you must resolve to do what’s no doubt a very difficult thing to do: drop the anger like a hot potato. Accept the nature of the difficult task ahead and get to work at the business of personal empowerment. Making peace with the “cost” of a self-directed life inevitably lessens the burden of your ordeal and frees up much-needed energy for the challenge at hand.
Admittedly, what I’ve give here are general principles, but they are trustworthy and reliable guidelines. I have a voluminous set of case histories that attest to how these principles have been applied with powerful results. Perhaps as the discussion among the readers ensues on this issue, the principles will gain some additional validation. And depending upon the nature of the discussion, there might be a follow-up article or two on this topic.
Many reputation managers recommend fighting fire with fire. Why is that?
Also, sometimes calmly speaking your truth can be very healing.
Some kind of a take-them-down-with-you -tactic. May work, but just as well not.
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They told me to just change my name back so… lol my dads got this haha
My husband got gun charge for illegal gun he got angry put order protection on me saying I beat him he lied and he is defaming my good name and he threw away my belongings and my sons glasses
It’s nearly unbelieveable to everyone that that one or anyone would do this to their own CHILD SO…
After the ordeal I have lived through with a malignant narcissistic ex. Seeing the legal system not work at all . The things I have been told by police and lawyer. What my ex is willing to do to our children. I would believe just about anything.
How are you surviving it? My situation is like an unbelievable hallmark movie.. it’s like nothing anyone have ever witnessed and I’m scared for the ending
I’m going through it right now. It’s insane. I moved over 2k miles away to get to safety. I’m terrified the system isn’t going to work.
Through my personal experience with Malignant Narcissist I have been able to end all of the craziness. The first thing was 1. no contact. 2. move at least 500 miles away and do not tell anyone your plans. Wait until you feel safe and have established a community of new people who knows of the problem and will be there for you. 3. please be very aware of your surroundings and meeting new people before you move who are trying to befriend you. This happened to me and it turned out she was a crooked private investigator involved in causing me horrible chaos in my life. So until you leave and feel safe in your new environment and you know you were not stalked to that new area, be aware. Through my personal experience with the Malignant Narcissist I have been able to end all of the craziness. The first thing was 1. no contact. 2. move at least 500 miles away and do not tell anyone your plans. Wait until you feel safe and have established a community that knows of the problem and will be there for you. 3. please be very aware of your surroundings and meeting new people before you move who are trying to befriend you. This happened to me and it turned out she was a crooked private investigator involved in causing me horrible chaos in my life. So until you leave and feel safe in your new environment and you know you were not stalked to that new area, be aware. 4. establish a new bank and freeze all of your credit bureaus, also use cash until this has been done. 5. purchase a home alarm system like simply safe which is reasonably priced and buy a bar to avoid your front door from being kicked in when you’re home. Buy a few cameras for indoors and outdoors. I use a driveway alarm which is Super cheap and will alert you if someone comes on your property in the middle of the night. I had these problems at 2 to 4 in the morning. Try to find a place where your car will be enclosed in a garage or have a car alarm. They love To vandalize your car and your property. 6. It is important to let people know with as little information that you have an ex who may send someone else to smear campaign you. Ask that if anyone approaches them About you to let you know. this prevented my ex from making me lose my job and I was allowed to work there for 10 years.7. try to be as calm as you can when you have to explain anything about your ex-husband. The fact that he is unstable and crazy and you talk about that, it will make you sound crazy. People don’t know about this. It’s just becoming an awareness.
Different with 3 kids. But I figured her out and don’t acknowledge the BS and don’t react. Document everything, keep a diary of events and court orders being broken. Document, document, document, and don’t let their manipulation phase you and stand up for what you are legally slotted. Mine has improved drastically although she pulls out some ridiculous accusations at times. I ignore then day later I may say, think what you want, or I know what your trying to do. See you at pick up
My ex threw me an our two sons out after 16 years and him year and half cheating on me an after throwing me and kids out moved the girl he cheated on with into our home believe that
Ouch. Sounds painful.
I’m having trouble with trying to get the proper evidence. My ex and his little group of lap dogs have been harassing me for over 2 years now. He has hidden some sort of device inside my car that tracks and listens to me. I’ve gone to the police and they can’t seem to help but he has violated mine and my children’s privacy to no extent and now my 14 year old daughter is wanting to hurt herself because of his sick and demented actions.
Living well is always the best revenge. That being said… boyfriend soliciting men on the website in Munday India, frankly up craigslist, I sent a copy to the boss and his ex-wife he longer has a job or parental rights. Sometimes you just have to protect people.
I can think of an “exception” that’s not so much fighting fire with fire as it’s reclaiming your rights and protecting yourself and others: If someone’s been abusing you and you need to go to someone for help with gathered evidence that this person not only has intentionally caused harm, but is dangerous, possibly to other people as well.
My x has defamed my name reputation ruined my life and caused so much harm and misery . yet justice has not been served. As he does everything under the rador. Its so unbearable.. I can’t continue on this way Any advice ?
I’m getting destroyed by my x gf she is a narcissist I see no end to the hell she I putting me through she has all but ended my life I don’t know what I can do or what to do I’ve lost my job because of her letters to the company I’ve been evicted from my apartment her again lies to the manager what can I do
Tracy,
I am sorry to say but the best thing is to get as far away from this disordered person as possible. Many people have to start over after a relationship like this. Just know you can rebuild your life, it won’t be easy and I know you can do it.
I encourage you to keep reading the blog, ask questions, vent and read Dr. Simons books. I think once you understand what has happened to you you will be able to have a better outlook.
Dr. Simon did a series on building ones own character, how to rise above the relationship with the CD and become the best we can be.
I also encourage you to read the 10 Commandments of character an put it to work for you.
I wish you the best.
Tracy
BTOV has good advice, but to go further on your situation, you could attempt to get an Order of Protection through the court system. There should be a form you could fill out provided by the court, and maybe you can represent yourself. You don’t want to spend money dealing with this person.
My local courts hold hearings regularly by a person seeking an Order of Protection representing him/herself.
The X is disordered and driven to ruin you, so hopefully you can get some protection from the harassment.
Tracy
If you have no children, find a way to disappear, and then start over. The legal system won’t help you. As I was told by my ex “Court Orders don’t stop violent people from doing violent things”. Police told me unless he was killing me they couldn’t intervene. Yet a judge said we had to co-parent our children. Like I said “RUN If no kids involved. I have 10 Years to go and then I may disappear and start over.
Hey everyone. I’m very saddened to hear/read what you are going through! My malignant narcissistic sociopath is stalking and hacking me.Please be aware that these exes WILL stalk you via technology. They can activate your microphone and listen to your conversations. They will also hack your WiFi.Shelters won’t let you have a device there,as women have been stalked right to the shelter.And your phones G.P.S can track you right to eleven feet!If you’re sharing a laptop or other device, be aware spyware/ stalker ware can be downloaded without even touching your device! Tell your kids to reset their devices and not to use backup, because it will be downloaded again. Assume for your safety, that ALL of your devices are compromised. Run! Run fast! Its probably too late for me,as he knows where I live,and stalks me relentlessly. Say a little prayer for me and my kids,who I gave up to protect.This is so unfair. I’m so very very sorry for everything you and I are going through! I’m sending everyone my best biggest warm hugs, and just be wise what you do on computer. I know the pain is almost unbearable, and we need to just push through it.Trust that with time,your ex will expose himself for what he is.If you can afford a lawyer, get one.If you can move, do it.Warn friends and loved ones what you’re going through. He has probably been slandering you to everyone…. Beat him to the punch by warning any new people in your life, before he gets to them! If you have gotten a new job or place to live,ado NOT let family and friends know! Quite often they infiltrate your support system. And get rid of any shared devices, change all passwords and emails on a different computer, and use different devices to look for a new place! Keep your nose clean, and assume everything you say is being recorded. These are literally going to Hell. Don’t believe apologies, and get a dog and security system if you can.My love and hugs to everyone who has had the terrible misfortune to deal with these demons wearing human skin.May God help us all.
Dont know if you’ll see this and im struggling to find the same answer but im in your exact situation myself and i feel your pain. She recently got me fired for constantly harassing my boss till the point where he had to let me go. She’s called my previous employer and fed them a bunch of lies which has led to them giving me a bad name when a new employer calls them to verify information that i worked for them and now I’ve had cops creeping by my house every night for the past week which makes me suspect she’s probably made up some bullshit saying im selling drugs which is false. She does everything anonymous where there’s no trail of her name even tho i know its her. She has my ss number as well and I’ve been seeing bogus credit cards showing up on my credit report recently as well. I know the hell and misery you’re going through and it really does make you feel helpless but just know you’re not the only one in a situation like this and i hope things get better for you eventually and that justice is served.
If u care he will. No one showed either one yo be better or reassured respect to be an existing definition. Your both there and still hurting yet with in time u will learn it takes part of two people to be a team put one foot in front of the other and he will too. U want and need each other obviously.
My low life scumb husband put lying order protection on me ruined my life turned people against me because he got a gun charge can I sue him
You think that’s bad mybhusband put a lying order of protection on me saying I beat him with no dates I have not found it yet any suggestions
I too have been destroyed again by my vile ex; just when I let my guard down – he pounces on me and I go back to feeling like nothing in my life is important!
I’m sure that distance is the only answer – a place to start a fresh and be yourself again!
If I were you, and I have felt eerily close, to your situation. It took me over a full year of knowing in my mind it had to end, but didn’t know how. Being a recovering addict I dove into what I knew would take my mind off of everything which only made things worse. After dealing with my personal issues throughout an 11 day detox and continuously hearing I needed to leave this relationship completely, regardless of the children who will only suffer less and have a mother to look up to in the end, I still wanted to make it work. They say make lists pros vs cons… I could never do that because I’ve known for too long how it would look & it wouldn’t tell me to stay that’s for sure. Him, being some combination of personality disorder’s while constantly gaslighting has made things as financially unstable for me as well as my falling for comments directed to make me second guess and feel as cornered and uncomfortable…
I sought out resources for women with children in domestic violence. There’s actually a lot of help emotionally, financially and if necessary emergency assistance. I work with a place in my home town who help whenever I need it. It can depend on the level of violence. For example my ex never quite got physical, but too close. Also, sexual, even harassing until you give in while in the relationship or pushing for lingerie photos/ sex tapes. Even financially! Financial abuse it’s called and I didn’t know that until someone put paperwork in my face explaining all the types. Very long story short: call your local hospital(s) one should have a name and number for your local domestic violence assistance program. I found my biggest challenge finding courage to leave. I thought it best to inform him since he would need to prepare financially, all that did was drain my personal finances while he went on shopping spree’s and being in recovery himself… yes he wandered back down the rabbit hole not only keeping my own sobriety in harms way but so I then would have to argue with a disillusioned man until finally getting out (I move out in 2 weeks) pray for me please & I’ll be praying for you, for all of you struggling to regain your strength, respect and happiness. It’s possible. Navigation is key, I don’t think I have answers for that unfortunately. Good luck & please communicate with a therapist, that’s one person who as long as you’re honest with will be able to guide not just emotionally but help with the navigation out.
I call it sex trafficking disguised under the name of a loving relationship
I get it. Mine manipulated 10s of thousands from and stuck me with the debt. It’s illegal what he’s done to me
I think a person who engages in that wrongful behavior toward their Ex and trying to sabotage their lives and barring them alive should be accountable to the court of justice
I feel the same. I was told (at least thought I was) about some sort of reimbursement for mothers who are financially struggling to get out of toxic relationships and stayed home because of their partners demands. I recently asked about it and was let down when it seemed I must’ve misinterpreted what was said. I mean the only money I could’ve used to leave I got from government aid and because I can’t keep anything from my (now finally ex) he continues to suck as much money from me as possible. I just began collecting SS in March… he immediately asked for rent, $200/mo out of my $560/mo payments. As well as the $1,600 during covid, another $1,200 refunded from overpaying on medication to my Ss payments… it’s pretty obvious especially signing over a $1,400 check a year before actually breaking up. The kicker really being he didn’t pay the taxes it was supposed to be for, I have no idea what it was actually spent on!
Claudia yes he hubby is was an has been involved in this evil wicked world of devils I’n human skin an yes more than one oh yes an both men am women it’s like a nightmare I cant wake up from an these criminals sick ass people many same ones over 6 stalking states now it’s hell on earth so yes the evil. Culprits at times illegally drug me up swearing lying on me saying I got ADHD I dont but shit holes purposely hurting me an have Been for a long time now I try to hide but frankly if I dare read my bible or pray same demonic. A holes right on me with needles while I’m asleep or or with electronic. Means man they are absolutely murderers so I mean nobody but nobody has to go through what I do but I’m hanging on cause yeah I’ve tried at least 13 times over the yrs to escape them but they either tried to kill me an overdrugged me illegally or or raped me while alone or abused the crap out of me or or lately in several states they have been putting amphetamines in me y’all these monsters tryin to kill me an too yeah my scared stiff hubby Involved but I guess they would kill him especially ronelle pryor so Willie an William so what can we do y’al y’al just pray no way no way would I dare tell no law enforcement they know I talked to a couple recently in various places no help symphatic yes but no real solution love Judy t
Judy,
You are right about many things. Yes, this world is very sick, however, the only change we can make is within in our own selves. To become whole and well we must step out of the sickness and into the light, in doing so we will be on our way to healing.
Blessings
Now he is illegally drugging. Me an has been so now I barely sleep barely function makes me depressed an hungry all the time irritated moody an anger so I found the receipt yesterday in his drawyer when he was out an he got it back yesterday pm while I was napping so now I’m up again almost 1am so man oh man. Oh man. I’d love to put this man behind bars but I have nobody to help me do it an he is narcissist bad so if he kills me I guess he kills me so it’s hubby or x boy friend ronny but ronny was over next door a short time ago an his comment was I need money oh me oh my goodness man it’s a catch 22 yelp I am literally stuck between a rock an a hard place
It’s been a long 11 months. GPS tracker on my truck for 2 days and as usual I was at work. My then gf’s daughter told me it was in my seat. I left it. I had nothing to hide. On day 3 I returned home. Jumped in the shower. 20 mins walked outside my truck window was busted out and both front headlights. This was at 630pm before dark. She denied it. Then blamed me. Said it was probably a jealous slut I was screwing.
The next day while getting ready for a Superbowl party. I heard her talking to dispatch on the phone. Out of the blue. 6 cops showed up. I had to leave with an armload of clothes. The next day she filed a no contact order. I couldn’t return or get my tools from a storage unit we share the I pay for or it is a violation. I have been attacked personally and professionally. I have spent $15,000 in legal fees because I tried to get my possession back to travel home for a few weeks. I was arrested at my condo. She invited me then called police. She has, mostly recently, threatened my friends with calling social services to give them trouble. They run an income daycare. There is no restraining order but she won’t removed the civil no contact order. She says she wants to rebuild our relationship but will only remove the order if things work out. No way! Control, manipulation and pure evil.
Most of all. … turn off the supply brake contact I am cluster be more histrionic. I think you be in relationships with cluster B people usually sicker than I am 10% of the population has a cluster be issue 50 per 60% of plaster be people are in relationships with other cluster B people so it’s possible that you have some of the issues to my mother is a narcissist. My father was a narcissist, my husband, and that was borderline, narcissist or not happening to your physically dead lose contact and no longer care about them one way or the other do not hate them do not love them to not miss and don’t check out their social media. Don’t wonder how they’re doing when they call you and try to Hoover, you back and laugh at him and say wow you must be so hard up if you’re trying to recycle me a supply because you hated me that usually does it just let go and let God I just detach with nothingness and get away as fast as you can they will harm you every moment you’re around them this is contagious. They are predators they will kill you or at least make you want to kill yourself or at the very least make your life not worth living in to heal someone, please please get out stay away, and if you do perform any kind of revenge, be careful, they’re known for stalking three known for narcissistic rage and they’re known for being injected and they’ll Stephen give it till the end of their days until they get you just be careful and consider these creatures like a tsunami there’s not much intentional about it but they will kill you
Y’all I know what your going through myself I just don’t believe leaving this terrible situation is the best advice neither is anger. But but still I just don’t believe that I have to take their their crap like in a store being hatresment by stupid men so it’s like this I don’t dress nice for them but only for my husband an I don’t believe it’s nobodys business anyway how I dress either yet at the same time I believe as a woman of dignity I can an will run em off of me any an every way I can so therefore my father in hea heaven says man looketh on the outward appearance but God looketh on my heart an no no I dont belong to them but to my husband I will get me a wedding ring set yes I will indeed yes so yes I do have narcissist men after me old relationship people but if I ignore em long enough even turn an walk on by em like they dont exist an have on my wedding ring set oh yes better idea yes I know all too many just like him so I just do what I can to help him no no he ain’t happy much but at least I know how to make mydy happy so I wi just win anyway no matter what I got up today with a good outlook as usual made our coffee am breakfast kissed him made breakfast an kissed him again am we watched tv together an I cleaned up am made bed took out trash am got out his clothes an swept floor an now I am relaxing so not too many of y’all actually believe nothing I say but William an black Chinese afro American young man I met in Miami fla he he he want leave me alone now I know lots of you don’t understand this, yet I do but I just have to trust God not them so I just have to let it go but yes I will not let em run alover me either an yes yes they are indeed not good but dangerous folks so I guess I will try to keep a lid on it as best as possible but no it aint easy last night my biggest crime started I’m our bed huggin am kissing my husband back an aw unusual pains in my thighs for this crime aw come on let us not dwell on nothin to deep for some folks to understand yet I do I do so lets just say no need to tell nobody so they win an haul me off to the luny farm so let us just keep it under wrap an key we all know we got evil cruel dominating controlling. People in this world people who just want that power control of other people especially women whom they believe makes en feel real real good to hurt us intimate us an in fact are jealous of the basic fact they can’t have us to themselves now shrinks that I’s a wrap an a hoot too so anytime yall wanna more or less chew the fat talk well baby I Been around long enough to know that you cant fight progress but by golly I can an will fight back
When necessary oh yes tatical force of my an my husband survival amen
My husband put lying order protection on me and ruined my life. Can I sue him
Lori,
I doubt that an attorney would take a case like that, unless he/she charges you the going rate, $250/hour and upwards. It would be a defamation case. See if you can get a free consult with a local attorney.
Then the next question would be does the husband have money you could recover if you won?
I think the law is against harrassment, discrimination, murder, physical abuse and more…
But, abuse and torture someone emotionally is worse than physical abuse, emotional abuse takes more time to recover than physical abuse.
I totally agree with you. Emotional abuse is far worst than physical abuse.
Agree, I rather take a physical shot for late dinner over continuously being harassed about that situation and any other somewhat close to it every night for the foreseeable future. Although I’ve never taken a real beating over ridiculous demands. At least emotionally, eventually, we will heal. Some don’t survive physical abuse to even try entering the healing process. My heart & prayers goes out to you all!
Lori,
If you can prove he lied, you can try to speak with someone at the State Attorney’s office. Lying in court is a crime with punishment, but then that would be separate and apart from a civil claim where you’re asking for monetary damages.
When a situation like that happens not only the victims are affected, but the entire environment is theorized and distributed by deranged people who continually telling lies and sending false signals to the public. That’s is wrong and cruel for anyone who can put their feet in the victims shoes. Some sort of behaviors should not be tolerated in any country, specifically in a
adeveloped, democratic country. Our children are watching us closely
You are so right disturbed for sure
What about suing him for emotional trauma for my sons glasses
I messed up and tried reasoning with her. Then i snapped. Then i gained my logic back a bit late. At work over texts of all things. You can imagine how that went….. Talk about tripping up over a mind game.
My ex basically made mine and my childrens lives hell for 16 years he emotionally anddemestically abused me he literatly had full control of our lives we didnt have a life if im honest if we went shopwe gof ordered back he made up lies got rid of all my freinds and family so i cudnt go ut he got rid of everyone all so that o needed him je used to control everything i do he only had to cough and i new to shut u he played mind games made me feel it was all my fault he said im worthless im the nutter i make hom like that hed ring social services and slate me as unfit he made me loose the plot i had 3 major break downs then he deside to go behind my back make out yhat he was helping me he wasnt he was trying to label me as scum wilst trying to make me as unfit mum so he cud get them he didnt win i found a home got my kids off social services by myself even tho i lost the plot after a breakdown 6 minth it took i did it he didnt get my children he even dat at thesidr of me on my sofa in my home wheen i was being signed of s service s and said well i fink u shud keep her onit and put more pressure on her he faild nearly 7 years after leaveing him hes now turned my kids on me twisting and telling them lies u wouldny say to your children useing them as wepons to destroy me still he striped my kids of there personality to the point were i dont reconose them no more hes kolled them i still held inthere wilst he continued to use the kids nowing yhat he failed before but this time he has put his time and effort into kids nowing that because id had enuf of the way theytret me because if him that id say no i cant do this no more he remove them 1 by 1 sending them to me to do his work getting ifo to turn it to destroy me as the only way he cud was removeing my bond with kids now i dont reconise them there all turned into him tgey believe his lies he dont care if he hurt there feelings or desroy there lifes aslong as they hate me and im labelled bad he new id say enuf is enuf i had to walk away so instead of him degradeing me frew court like he wanted i handed my kids to him so it failed again he didnt destroy me again but yes im at bottom but now ive chosr to walk away from this life and start again yes it hurts like mad but he wont get away with wat hes done yo me and my kids i wont let him
I totally believe you, Michelle. I’m super surprised and impressed you kept your kids throughout “unfit mother” attacks. Most of the time, abusers get full custody, despite the court knowing they are batterers. Most of the time the court experience is more trauma and victimization of women.
When you talked about how he’d only needed to cough and you knew to shut up, my abuser would either give me a look or yawn and I knew to shut up and disappear immediately, apologetically doing so, of course.
Mind games, lying about you to others, isolation, driving you to have multiple breakdowns, role reversals via convincing others you were this crazy, horrible one and he was the good, kind, helper. Doing everything to destroy you and cause you the most pain. Weaponizing the children. Using them as means of collecting info on you.
This is all very standard abuser stuff. I’m glad the courts didn’t beat you down as well. I’m glad you didn’t lose your kids. That’s such an accomplishment! Not many mothers succeed in courts, despite the lies and myths of the courts being pro-mothers and anti-fathers (what a massive lie and myth that is!).
Mine had others believing I was the abuser and he was the abused, battered victim. He’d yell, specifically for the neighbors to hear, at the top of his lungs, lies like I was trying to kill him, that I was threatening to shoot him, that I’d told him I was going to kill him first and then suicide. All sorts of things. He’d be in an entirely different room and suddenly he’d yell out super loud that I’d just assaulted him and that I was going to jail, having assaulted him. I was used to him lying about me and I couldn’t risk “talking back” and saying he was lying, so I took it all in silence. And thus, the neighbors believed me to be this murderous maniac and assaultive abuser.
All the other people, like family, coworkers, friends, etc. were also duped into believing all sorts of lies like that about me. I had no idea because I didn’t snoop on him and he didn’t say such things around me. Landlord, healthcare providers, counselors, police, etc. All were methodically turned against me over the years and I had no clue.
Abusers are demonic. Mine was and is. And God’s Holy Word says, the angel of darkness masquerades as an angel of light (paraphrasing there).
Abusers love to setup their targets, too. Sabotage delights them. Evil people, that’s for sure. And the world loves the abuser, the real monster, and hates the target, the actual victim of it all.
He’s a malignant narcissist, the most evil and dangerous of all personality disorders. He’s a malignant narcissist, the most evil and dangerous of all personality disorders. mine character assassinated me and Smear campaign to me in my neighborhood, and all the people you mentioned. He had two separate lives. He tortured me psychologically, emotionally and physically. They say these people are not “crazy”, only their brains ate wired differently. I beg to differ. My ex was bat crazy and continues to get worse as he ages. He has turned by three children against me even though they know what and who he is. He inherited millions and that seems to be the dangling carrot that controls my children. I never wanted the money, I just wanted to get away from him I’d be happy and healthy because he was killing me. He stalks me by proxy to this day. he’s obsessed with wanting to destroy me. I also believe there is money that he is hiding from me that was not looked into during the divorce. I have had no contact with him for many years but he gets all the information and photos of me from his minions. I pray every day and night for strength and protection. my heart is broken with my children siding with him later on in their lives. I was such a good mother and love them so much and he is so happy to take them away from me. He doesn’t care about them, it’s all about controlling me. People talk about running away and hiding somewhere and I would love to do that if I knew how. He keeps a very tight watch on me. I need a lawyer that understands this personality disorder to really be able to help me.
He’s a malignant narcissist, the most dangerous of all personality disorders. my ex character assassinated me and Smear campaigned me in my neighborhood, and all the people you mentioned. He had two separate lives. He tortured me psychologically, emotionally and physically. They say these people are not “crazy”, only their brains are wired differently. I beg to differ. My ex was bat crazy and continues to get worse as he ages. He has turned my three children against me even though they know what and who he is. He inherited millions and that seems to be the dangling carrot that controls my children. I never wanted the money, I just wanted to get away from him to be happy and healthy because he was killing me. He stalks me by proxy to this day. he’s obsessed with wanting to destroy me. I also believe there is money that he is hiding from me that was not looked into during the divorce. I have had no contact with him for many years but he gets all the information and photos of me from his minions. I pray every day and night for strength and protection. my heart is broken with my children siding with him later on in their lives. I was such a good mother and love them so much and he is so happy to take them away from me. He doesn’t care about them, it’s all about controlling me. People talk about running away and hiding somewhere and I would love to do that if I knew how. He keeps a very tight watch on me. I need a lawyer that understands this personality disorder to really be able to help me.
I had the same thing – when with child services seeing me fit And even after being coerced and threatened to lie to them – I handed tnem over cuz I knew he won’t stop using them as pawns , and what about their flying monkeys – henchmen – who had no busienss in our business,who r going about their lives , after helping him destroy his own family for financial gain ( so he can be the winner ) it’s a never ending nighmare with them , my kids r also unrecognizable , one he turned into. A bully , the rest r on autopilot mode , numb , bamboozled from the sheer amount of bs they had to endure , the only bright side , is that we have an ace up our sleeves that we kept all their shit and people they involved to abuse us , quiet , so when it comes to a lawsuit, since we have nothing to lose , we have only to gain …
Hello and good morning, I’m a bit nervous to ask but, I’ve been in a relationship with someone who’s used their religion to instil fear in me, threaten he can kill me and get away with it. Falsely made reports but never went forward with the charges. Bit my finger to the point I had to get stitches and a technant shot, damaged every thing I had, kicked me out in the cold in 18′ degree s in NYC roaming Manhattan for two whole days till I got enough money to reach out to my family. Also knowing gave me hiv, had anal sex with me while I was sleeping and gave me an std, I move further south and he follows me, I made it clear I wanted nothing to do with him and my parent pushed me back to him with no choice, he’s done sacrifices to bond me with him, I believe he has mental issues but not too sure, idk what’s Tru or what’s a lie, now he’s ruined my bond with my family and has made it his business to ruein my image, he made friends with people I tried to be come close with and convinced them I’m this person I’m not, I’m afraid my family will soon not be mine, through out. The 8 yrs rather almost nine he’s been traveling making amature porn in la va dc fl Brasil Paris and plenty of other places. And is doing the same in FL now. Just a few months ago him and his mom jumped me, idk what’s wrong with me why I love him and kept/keep going back, I’ve lost myself. Hard to focus on anything that’s going to bring me back to life. He’s poisoned me with plaster on my 26 bday, has others in his religion doing Santeria voodoo to me, I don’t have it in me to come been go through a day smiling or positive thinking without me always being involved he wrong, he’s had sexual relation with very good friends of mine that caused us to disolve and still is to this very day. Im not one to get involved with the law, but enough is enough, like I need some sanity. I need my family, id hate to ruin someone’s freedom the was he and his mom did mine not to long ago did which caused me to be in prison for 3 days. Even then I was trying to be there for him, it’s like if I don’t do what he says when he asks or demands it’s he hope I drop dead so he can walk over me, I have nothing left, I tried moving forward twice meeting two gentlemen but at different time and years he some how knew them convinced them to record me and post it on line, introduce d me to this leather whips toys poppers master slave Dom sub stuff .. what should I do, I talk to God, I’m just afraid I’ll regret getting the law involved. He’s tampered with my hiv meds a few years back, he’s cause me to have bacteria infection in my mouth because he ran my tooth brush in the toilet bowl, and suck water from the toilet in my tooth paste tube, and the same with my body soaps, my skin isn’t the same because of it. He’s broken every pair of glasses I ever owned, even the ones I have on now, cratxhed the lense with his knifes from his religion, he’s even buddy buddy with a few y
Tech savvy guys who are known to hack phones because they’ve done to me more than once, he’s on Craigslist Grindr adam4adam I’m not an innocent soul. And idk how I still love him I just need help.. I’m so ashame I wasted too much time trying to be the person he wanted me to be.. I’ve lost everything.. again I’m not a saint, I’ve defended myself yrs back in NYC when he’d have a sword or bust my head open with drums.. I just met his mom not even. A yr ago and we were together 7.5 yrs. He met booths parents and step patents, I quit .y jobs in NYC to become a domestic partner, took care of meals, made sure house was clean, took care interior decorating, bought different types of furniture for him to use it as a prop in his movies/videos, xxx he even convinced me to film me back when we were in NYC and then turn around and accused me of posting videos of us when I didn’t know anything of these places till him.. I gave him the beat years of my youth, was mostly upfront with him from beginning till now.. he’s threaten me with his brothers and uncle’s working for the law in atl and new Jersey.. I just need guidance I don’t wanna come off as the victim I just wanna. Take the right steps without regretting it later on. Please don’t judge me 🙁
Please contact your local Abused Adult Resource Center…..they can help you keep secretly safe until the next step. You won’t know the next step, until going through the first step: GET OUT SWEETY!!!
Know that you will probably always love him. Loving him isn’t the point anymore. The point is being able to leave someone, while you STILL love them. That takes strength, which you have none left…..all of this is not your fault.
This is just my opinion, but tackle this from the spiritual side FIRST?, and then watch how it manifests in physical? Works for me and countless others throughout time….it will work for you too. The evil religion yo man is practicing, is governed by disobedient angels. Good angels don’t behave in that matter, and it’s the good angels that are more powerful anyway, so…..
Pray, fight, CONTACT A LOCAL, NON-JUDGMENTAL, CHRISTIAN CHURCH!!!! Disobedient angels only listen to one name….the name of Jesus, Lion of Judah.
He is NOT pleased with how you’ve been treated, and already has your spiritual, economic, physical, and emotional healing lined up for you.
Listen, I know Christianity can get a bad rap. I’m not here to convert anyone, and I don’t wish to participate in apologetics. I HAVE, however, been dealing with disobedient angels for almost 20 years now, and through my experience, I’ve seen that no other name scares the outcasts, as much as the human who was raised to God status….Jesus.
NO CONTACT. PERIOD. There is some flip flopping on your part. You wont get out of this storm until you move far away and NEVER EVER CONTACT HIM AGAIN.
Run and keep running darling sorry but u deserve better he doesnt luv u hes a evil ascumbag no 1 shud be tret like this he treats u like animal u deserve better and no matter wat hes says u are beautidmful get as far away as u can in conyinue running please darling u need to get away form him he dknt love u u dont do this to omeone u luv get iut or hes going to kill u or sumet u deserve so much more plz listen to me RUN AS FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE PLZ U NEED TO TELL THE POLICE XX
What do you do if you have children? You can’t run away, if I could I would love to. I feel the only way I could ever have a normal and happy life is if he were finally gone, dead.
I don’t plan on killing him but only because I don’t want to go to prison, I think God would understand and give me a pass.
I feel the same as you
go to the police
go to police
I can’t understand it, I gave up trying awhile ago now I’m just healing and learning why I was with someone like her to begin with. She was the most dependent but lovable person, I thought we were the real deal, she promised in every way possible to never do the things she did… and then even after she broke me completely she refused to look at me once… i was tucking her in with stuffed animals, cutting her food making sure things didn’t touch and making plans for our future… she left at the hardest time for me emotionally when I needed her to be there she not only broke every promise, she tried to punish me and transfer her pain onto me and you know it kinda worked..
The way she did everything destroyed me as a person. It ruined my career and relationships, my mental health, I had to take medical leave twice, now I’m planning to work for myself while fighting a law suit against my company. She never once showed any remorse, after years of love and promises just gone and I was her abuser now… well labeling someone your abuser and trying to take them to court for some pathetic Victim story is too much I don’t care if they’re mentally ill, no one deserves to be dehumanized and punished by a person who swore to love them forever, i wil never forgive you. You did the things to me you said your child hood abusers did to you and after getting me to open up about my own abuse then making me suffer alone through the pain the last few years… I lost 40 pounds, my sanity my life my career for what, so you can have some excuse to live the way you do? You didn’t need to escape me you lunatic, I never raised a hand or my voice to you and I never would have. I did the things you talk about for real and will heal.. some day , but the scars will last forever
Thank I really needed this I also need y’all’s help in dealing with an almost I said alnosr difficult spouse I believe with help u can still be me but the anger in me yes I has to go but I mean the drugin me up illegally an yes they have been just cool it I guess but man they will kill me so I guess just shut up an do what hubby says mabye that will work out good we do have fun so I will listen more to him
Thank I really needed this I also need y’all’s help in dealing with an almost I said alnosr difficult spouse I believe with help u can still be me but the anger in me yes I has to go but I mean the drugin me up illegally an yes they have been just cool it I guess but man they will kill me so I guess just shut up an do what hubby says mabye that will work out good we do have fun so I will listen more to him
Absolutely said. Speaking calmly can do so much healing. Just like screaming hatefully can create so much anger and can cause so much pain and destruction.
Good stuff! De Becker recommends one other thing… not reacting at all to their provocations so they get bored and go away. (Of course, that depends on the nature of the provocations, some are more serious than others. De Becker gets paid a lot of money for being able to tell the difference between real danger and mere — though massive — annoyance.)
That makes sense. The person who is defaming another persons’s character is usually the least qualified in terms of “standards” to judge others.
That’s exactly what my ex husband has done to me. Ruined my rep my career and even made me out to be a horrible mother. He is a liar. And I want justice
Your ex husband ruined your rep, career, and made you out to be a horrible mother? may I ask how? does he have a mental or personality disorder. If he continues, seek legal help. defamation and slander have strict consequences, because of the internet is so widely available and due to social media. If has ruined your career, you have every right to seek legal action against him.
It would nice if he moved far away… or maybe he will just die. just joking
It sounds like her ex husband is a narcissist. An Overt or Cover I do not know but these people are dangerous. My ex has ruined my reputation with lies. All her flying monkeys think I am a monster. The funny thing is she plays the victim roles so beautifully and everyone believes her.
Honey it’s bad real bad yes he is mentally ill an dont believe nothin is wrong with him ita me me an sinnce he was in law for bout 32 yrs my hands are tied cant do nothin but take it I guess an do what he wishes sorry but it’s a big big mess an im just caught in the middle of a bad situation an lots of bad people we both were involved with an bout not much we can do but hold on to each other so i.guess my big mistake is just shut up cause it only makes things worse so it’s ok I be fine him too but I must shut up bout em that is all I can do
you will never get justice from a character disordered person, even though Dr. Simon stated in 2013 in response to seeking protection through the court system, I feel from my own experience that unless this would involve criminal charges and even then there’s no guarantee, and it is highly unlikely you can get a protective order, and very unfortunate if this is just through the family court. Most likely civil court where a legal tort could be used to pursue the person, since you are already divorced. Even then most likely a CD person will hide assets , and drag out the legal process and make your life a living hell. There are way too many variables such as the offenses, the court you are using and the lawyers, even then it comes down to a judge, and if you are married. It is sad, sad, but many offenses are not considered illegal if you are married to that person unless you are a millionaire and it’s a high profile divorce case worth news coverage. it is just not that simple. If you are divorced and he has trashed you on the internet such as sent nude pics to your boss, or signed you up on Craig’s list for rape fantasy meet ups then there’s not alot you can do. If you are married he can forge your name, run up debt and destroy your credit, he can use extortion and blackmail, have private pictures of the two of you during marriage that you were totally unaware of, and send them all over the internet and to your family , he can destroy any property the two of you have , he can have a business and run it into the ground and you are still 50 percent liable for IRS taxes, he can openingly cheat and live with someone else, and if it’s a no fault state any destructive and irresponsible acts on his part and you are still 50 percent responsible financially , if you have children he can tell them they are dead to him and do all of the above and most likely still get unsupervised visitation with them. You will NEVER get justice from a CD person, because you can’t even think in the level of evil they think. If he has done damage to your ability to support yourself do some research on attorneys in your area that have won cases such as yours and go talk to them. Otherwise speaking from experience you are going have to cut your losses and pick up.rhe pieces of your life, surround yourself with healthy and supportive people and work on healing yourself. Count yourself grateful you have the ability to heal and be a better person. A character disordered person are not capable in my opinion of doing that, they operate on the lowest level a human can, and they never are full filled.
I should add that time is in your corner because a CD person leaves a trail of destruction and toxic waste everywhere they go…they earn their reputation. A CD persons personality doesn’t change and neither do their life skills , so everywhere they go they keep repeating the same crap over and over, …and it is always destructive ..every person that connects with them eventually gets crapped on, it’s just a matter of time, because a CD person never changes.
Lucky
I’m at three and a half years of divorce proceedings with a highly toxic covert CDN, grandiose narc. Everything you say is spot on. Once they decide to ruin you therebis really no harnessing of what they do, if they have the money to pay the lawyer. When you “win” in court you don’t really win because of the attorney fees. Attorney fees have sunk me financially defending all the BS claims the X filed and his jackass attorney would file anything. Now the table has turned against the attorney because he’s trying to get out of paying them (he’s had three attorneys ).
You have to do your best to be rid of the CD – to get him out of your life and cut your loses because they keep mounting. It’s nearly paralyzing dealing with the CD when they decide to ruin you – they don’t quit. It’s brutal. I’m sorrt this is so harsh but it is the truth. I’ve lived it – still not done but close. You will not find justice in the courts. You may “win” but it will financially break you.
Once you get the attitude of cutting your loses and not winning it’s a game changer. These CDs can suck the life right out of you.
It’s a horrible thing to go through and I wish you the best
Lucky,
I have lived so much of the same experience. I think the hardest part is that it is so unreal most people never believe you. You wouldn’t believe it yourself if you hadn’t lived it. I am Gratefully divorced. But stuck with a co-parenting schedule from hell. Children another way for them to abuse you.
I know the feeling my ex is all of this for 8 years something is definitely wrong on so many levels who in the hell Have that much time to keep doing this crazy ass shit!!!
Teena,
Eight years? Do you have children together?
Eight years of dealing with the CD is so long, it makes me a little sick to think about how that would feel. The man is twisted. I think they get so mean I’d say they are downright evil.
I’m sorry you have to keep dealing.
I don’t anymore now that the divorce issues are behind me. Of course he still crops up through my daughter and her son, but not to me directly.
My ex has not stopped destroying everything in mine and my children’s lives. Slander, defamation and blackmail. He has millions! He has convinced the judge I am unfit. My children are suffering and it kills me. I feel so lost. I’m attacked daily by him. He’s so angry I left him in 2007. He has made it his life mission to destroy every ounce of my life and soul. I’m exhausted.
I’m in the same boat. My ex and now his new wife are like 2 peas in a very very sick pod… I’ve been stuck in the nightmare of family court in SC for 6years now… I have followed court orders, guardian orders, etc…. and My Ex hasn’t… i provide for our daughter 100% despite his promises of helping. He’s worthless… and on top of that he and his wife have ruined my credit through extortion, lies, mortgage fraud etc… in my name…. and all while playing victims???!!! It’s disgusting… and I keep getting told to stay calm and not do anything stupid!!! How long does the family court system expect someone to continuously “follow their rules” and continuously get screwed over…. before it’s ok for that person to fucking react!!! It’s insane!! The hardest and most nightmares to, scariest dream is not knowing if I have the ability anymore to ‘NOT REACT?’
I have been dealing with this for 4 years .it got so bad I am not able to even get out of the house anymore. He completed isolatwd frkm the world and not one person that do not believe him allover the world is the same story. He stalks me every minute so how do I disappear if I am not left alone one minute and all the money that he spends on all of theae people and how much energy and time he devotes for 4 years withoht missing 1 minute in making sure I do not have A life. He has gone above and beyond to ensure I don’t have a place to live, a job, any type.of support , a person or an animal around me. He wants me to die Immediately alone.only because I decided I couldn’t take aftwr 12 years of craziness anymore. Everything is under the radar without anyone ever suspecting anything aboht me and skillfully making me look like i am the Crazy. One and mentally ill for accusing him of doing bas stuff to me, be turned against me my own family, friends, everyone. I just have to die alone on the streets as I am not able to get ahyhrkng done that he already sent some mobster yo make my day impossible to be lived. Can’t even walk to a shop and by bread, people.wont even sell me a bottle.of water, the most fascinating thing of all this CRAZINESS is how quickly they get people to believe them and as I am writing this he has alrwsdy hacked everything and had to restart this message 4 times as he shut down the page 4 times out of the blue. I do not owe him anything, I didn’t want anything during the divorce, I left him everything that he wanted and I just.wanted my freedom and aftwr I left him everything after the divorce I only wanted to be left slome and in peace he didn’t want to grant me my peace, not even for 1 minute. It will be four years of this torture in October and it feels it:s only getting worse and more intense like he is intensifying how quickly I have to go. If you see the person you would think there is no way this person could ever lie and would ever such thing as he Is only able to help everyone and tbat is the main reason why he does with such ease and quickly, idonot bave not even 1 true supporter in the entire world, not one, not even a mouse
I am the real Melissa Sugar and I just stumbled upon this article and was shocked to discover a comment left in my name (forgery). I didn’t leave this comment. I feel certain I know the author as she has tried for years to hurt my children and me. She writes false, negative posts and comments about my kids and me all over the Internet. I would never have made a derogatory comment about my ex-husband. He’s recently deceased, (coincidentally close to the time someone wrote the horrible comment).He was a wonderful family provider, a good husband (both times we married), an excellent father, son, son-in-law, friend and hard worker. I’ll always love him for giving me the best gift in the world— our incredible children, and feel fortunate for the years we shared together. I’m honored to be the mother of his kids, honored to have remained close to his parents and still share every holiday with them. He was the kindest man I ever knew. My children and our entire family continue to grieve his death. He died much too young. I’m blessed to have spent most of my adult life with him. I’m horrified that someone would write something so terrible about a father who’s passed away and pretend it was written by the mother of his children.
Some people will never stop instigating trouble. Please leave our family alone. My kids are in grief counseling and suffering terribly. So much has been taken from them. What kind of person would write this, knowing the kids could read it. The person who did this needs to seek professional help and I beg you to leave our family alone. You’ll notice I didn’t call you out by name as it would be inappropriate for me to direct attention to you or your child or cause you any harm or embarrassment.
We are sad, grieving and on top of this loss, just lost my mom. Please stop harassing us. Please. I’ve never done anything to you. My kids can barely make it through a single day without crying and they suffer depression at such a young age. If you have any sense of decency or compassion, please let them heal and leave them alone. They can’t handle anymore of your sick games or hurtful words. Please. God bless you and your own family and kindly leave us to our grief.
I agree with you here. My ex had my son taken away from me and made everyone believe I was on drugs. That was 14 years ago. Now he has the brother that tried to drown me when we were kids coming after me.
Sounds like the “Christians” of Fairmount ND…yuck. They even go on websites claiming to be male “victims”, and use a deceased”brainwashed” brother’s journals to reinforce the “truth” of the lies. Small-town mentality, not “Christian” at all. Facebook fakes, cheap, slanderers, do-nothing, low energy, low accomplishment.
The want of “justice” is the dangling carrot that will keep you enmeshed. Trust me I e been through it. It will take years to come out on the otherside of this insane hurdle. You must go cold turkey, NO CONTACT. Do not seek revenge. You are deali g with a sociopath…there is no winning unless you have a team of people as dedicated as you are to bring this man down. No one will ever be that dedicated and eventually you will wear them out emotionally. You must relocate. One question, is there a child involved, custody, vistation etc.?
They don’t get bored and go away. If there’s no consequences they will harass you until you die .
Ignore..I don’t think so. I left my dear Sociopath 8 years ago. I was just served by Sherriff with another fabricated contempt charge. He’s never won…but he’s never been sanctioned as a vexatious litigant.
March 23 will ne the 32nd time he’s Gad me served since 2015.
Ignore… impossible. You’re served, you go to court. One charge can mean 4, 5, 6… maybe more over the following 12 months. And I have to stand right next to my abuser. Is he sick? Or do we live in a very sick world.
When the March charge is over I’m doing something to protect myself. I’m leaving for Europe to live.
Deborah,
I can understand what you are talking about. These kind of CDNSP are vindictive and they think of nothing but to make you miserable and the ultimate goal is to destroy you.
The only thing these soulless monsters understand is power. Unfortunately, he knows the game well and is enjoying making you dance and manipulating the courts. Is there anyway you can get an order of protection by the courts due to his unreasonable and constant harassment and abuse of the court system?
I don’t know your particulars, if you have children, if there have been domestic quarrels, if you interact in anyway he can use against you etc,. All of these things weigh heavily in the courts reactions to restraints. Another scenario is, many times the courts, law enforcement, judges, themselves are intimidated and afraid of personal repercussion and retaliation from individuals who act in the extreme.
Its hard to advise without more details. I think you may have other recourse’s to take depending on your circumstances. Please feel free to keep posting. I am sure you will find support from others who have experienced the same.
Yup. Hear ya.These folks are lame.
Without any legal punishment it’s almost impossible for the aggressor to stop
Any suggestions for when you’re separating from a characer-disturbed father?
Yes, or also can you forward me to any information on helping children cope with a parent who is character-disturbed? I’m dealing with a person who uses the children as a weapon to hurt me. They are being greatly impacted, each in different ways. The oldest is emotionally abused and reaching out to boys at school for emotional comfort, the middle is withdrawn from me and angry with me and protective of her father, and the youngest is defiant and determined to have his way. Any information you can point me to, to help them through this is greatly appreciated.
I have the same problem as the person above. The father of my children is emotionally abusing my oldest and defaming my character to both of them. I can’t get into everything because it would take pages and pages. But I’ve started to question giving up custody as they are teenagers and don’t need me as much as they use to. I don’t know what would hurt more.
They need you EVEN MORE as teens and can be emotionally hit harder buy what you ex says and does. Don’t give up on them they need you! Your first jib above all else is to protect them. You can’t do this if you’re not around.
Thank you. I needed to here the reply for that situation.
This is my life. It goes back to 2010. We separated in 2011, divorced 2013. There is so many things I could write, but it makes me more nauseous than I already am. He’s messed up my boys so bad I am at a total loss of what to even do anymore. Youngest is in therapy, but I have not been able to talk to therapist deeply enough to really get across what’s going on. He thinks hes there to reconcile son and his father. His last game in court was a shitshow. I “won” so to speak, as in son gets to stay living with me 100% of the time, after years of 50/50 (he set out to prove me unfit with every story, lie you can imagine … so he used a different tactic having to do with school …. it NEVER ENDS .I will never give up on my sons, but it’s been years and years of emotional, verbal torture even over voicemail. I refuse to communicate with him except email. I’m tired, and drained. What now.
Please I could use some help and information as well.
It seems some comments can easily drown as only a limited amount of recent comments are shown. Just posting this to help your comments stay afloat, Mario and Kay.
Forgive him, and forget him, other than than knowing that some people are in your life to show you what NOT to do. I offered my resentment to God, and I had the blessing of being unable to cheat knowing what that would do to my children. It was a gift bigger than fortune. My children respect me, love me, and try to do their best for me. That is only by the grace of God.
I also had the blessing to eventually walk in my father’s shoes and understand that his cross had been bigger than mine. I was very judgemental of my father, but eventually realized he had more character than I. My father redeemed himself, and I have no doubt he is in heaven thanks to my loving mother.
I understand that you can survive verbal attacks, but sometimes the attacks are not only verbal, they also sabotaged your right to live and work , your finances and your entire life in a daily routine is holding hostage for years and years and t refusing to give you a chance to survive.
Yes, the effects are devastating. Both the children and their loving parents suffer greatly. The helplessness is compounded by the sabotage. Creating panic and grief, giving power to chaos. I have tried so hard to cope the last two and a half years. My little one is in need and my voice has been seemingly silenced. Court hearing after court I have spoken up with concerns for the safety and well being of my young child. Yet the custodial parent who had abandoned their child for four years and had no legal right to custody then is still in control of our life. And uses such power to further traumatize. I do not understand why this happens so commonly. I do not understand why all reason is ignored. I do not understand why the law is disregarded. I do not understand how we got here and why we remain here. There is a great need for advocacy which demands justice.
Mario — you’ve taken the first step in recognizing that you need to be away from your father. A bit of your background would be helpful — for example, how old are you, are you in the same city as your father, are you employed, or whatever other bits of information you feel you could share without losing your anonymity. What character disorder is causing the problem? How old is your father? Without a bit more information, it’s hard to know what would help you, or what advice would be useful. Best wishes from Elva
Dr Simon, this article is very good and I intend to post a link to it at our blog, but I’d like to ask you one question:-
Sometimes it is possible to ask the courts to grant you a protection order against the person who has been abusing you. Would you construe this as the victim trying to control the abuser’s conduct? Is it the right or good thing for a victim to do? Or is it focusing too much on trying to control the behavior of the character disturbed person?
There are many times when a protection order is not only warranted but necessary. And in those cases, seeking the protection order is not primarily for the purposes of “control,” because, in fact, many abusers violate these orders. Rather, when necessary, it’s just another affirmative step the potential victim can take to not only improve their safety odds, but also to have legal recourse when court-ordered sanctions are violated (as they often are). But even more important than a protective order is a viable safety plan with ample family/community support. Ending an abusive relationship is the most dangerous time for a victim. That’s why the safety plan is so critical and why, in the end, it’s often much more effective than any restraining order.
Excellent article and advice – one suggestion if it isn’t too difficult to change?
All this rings true for other kind of relationships – friends, other family members, but even employees or more formal relationships. Basically – ANY time you have to tangle with a CD! Thank God I’ve never been married to one but I’ve had to manage or be managed by them in the workplace. And all of these things apply. I’ve had to go through the ‘reputational damage’ issue with employees, when it affects a whole organization and not just one person and their personal life.
Do you think you could change the title therefore away from ‘Ex’? I know it doesn’t matter for those of us who already visit regularly and read everything anyway. But it would bring in a new audience of desperate people – I’m thinking of people I know struggling, say, with being defamed in a professional context – who might not find it in a search if it’s only tagged this way. And then they won’t discover your books and this blog and get a lot of help!
(I know most people here are in personal relationships and suffering intensely with that, but I come from having this only in work contexts in the last 20 years – a different kind of hell, maybe not as personally horrific but with different horrors like ‘being responsible’ for keeping this person from damaging many others for whom you have a legal duty of care.)
Having colleagues in other institutions going through the same thing, they might not find this information in an internet search if it is too exclusively focused on love-relationships. (so-called ‘love’!)
Thanks. And thanks for sharing your thoughts. I might just make the change you suggest, but for a couple of reasons (meta tags, keywords, etc.) I don’t think I’ll do so just yet.
I think it depends on the person connection, I know someone who is being divorced and separated to her Ex for about 10years now, but with the help of cyber bullying, cyber stalking, she’s under constant persecution, eventhough she moved from State to state. So, what can you do under that circumstance?
When there are children involved and therefore forced involvement because of father’s “rights”, how do others protect the moral development and esteem of the children? I have already had one order of protection which actually escalated the ex husband and made it worse for my kids.
What about feminist people like yourself who don’t respect the rights of fathers and think somehow they are not equal in comparison to the well-being of a child?
Michael and Kelly,
Orders of protection are not handed out mindlessly. There are clear reasons behind having them granted. All parents, good or bad have rights, and they can sure lose a good portion of them by behaving badly. I see it happen frequently, as it should be. It has nothing to do with being a feminist and equality. She’s trying to protect her children from a father who is damaging. And Kelly, it’s hard to protect your kids from a mal intentioned parent. Ongoing counseling would be a start.
Lucy, you must be high. My ex wife had 3 Dv arrests, a felony (terroristici threats) and only the day after the Sherriff’s were looking for her again for more viloent behaviour; she made false allegations about a non-violent occurance 45 days prior, that she already was paid for $20. She file a false tro and served me with less than 3 days before the hearing. She broke the law in every way, but since the judge did not have time to read the case and we were called first, I made the mistake of mentioning that I did not feel I could get a fair hearing on this matter as I was just served. The judge; with his panties in a bunch , threw the book at me. I was the one ordered into ‘battering class’s, and she got a 3-year tro. I have NEVER touched a woman or child in any such way and took pride being a single father raising my older two children from the time they were 4 and 6 till their 20’s. All my children are sweet, considerate, loving and smart kid’s. I am and forever will be so proud of them all. With that being said, I failed to tell you that I am currently awaiting a dual heart/ liver transplant and more at Cedar-Sinai Hospital. I am afraid that I will pass before my children know the ‘real’ truth and the affect all this will have in their adult life’s with their own children.
The judge was later reprimaned due to the fact he neglected to offer a continuece or time to retain cousel per the court trnascripts I orrdered. Now my narcisstic, vindictive ex and family have completely aliennated our twin’s against me and again she disappeared with our children for over 200 days this time. She has violiated all court orders of visitation, even after being warned several times from the new judge and yet; all you feminist bullshiters, liars and crazy ex’s all pander to the idea that all us good and deserving father’s don’t care and all you same parential alienators have no clue as to the emotional abuse you cause your own child by playing the same games . Every child deserves a father and YOU , by making a child too scared to ask about someone they love makes you a piece of shit. I’m sorry but I am so sick of hearing you whiners. It doesn’t help and nobody cares. Since that day in court, within one week, she sent a nude pic of me to our daughter’s 12-13 yr travel ball team and parents, anonamously, but I had the DA Cyper Forensic expert and AT&T all prove to the court she did this , yet she still says I made it up ,even after one suspect came forward and admitted his role in this.
I don’t even have the room to share all the other bull crap she has pulled even though this whole time she was having an affair with the guy she claimed to me and our children, was a stalker. Turns out he is more than that because after several background checks showing him having over 52 criminal/ traffic incidents on his young record, even an arrest for 5 counts of child sexual abuse and felony asasult. Yet, I am the one that was beat down by her, my office and work all destroyed all because she went on my computer and saw that a woman friend in another country said she loved me.
The ex has told the twin’s I have abandoned them, didn’t want them and that I left them for a 16 yr old street whore in Brasil, plus many more lies . This is all from her, her mom, sisters and cousins that all live with them .One bright spot is my daughter, will hear my message from me nightly and would sneak into the bathroom and call me right back. That was until now ,as all phones are now blocked. I could go on, but even I am tired.
All an all, I am a good and loving father. Don’t get me wrong. I am human and I make mistakes; but I have taken responsiblity for those, even for her affair because I was led to believe it was my fault till I found out later this was going on well before my friend , Ley, confessed her feelings.
Doesn’t matter though. What she, her family, the courts and judges don’t seem to look at is what is in the best interest of the children. The harm that is being done and has already been done. None of them care, nor are they even qualified to be in Family Court. The first judge in our court matter never practiced Family Law. He was a probate attorney and Real Estate attny and took the position to gain a judgeship position. Regardless, none of it matters and it never ends.
Anyway, I do apologize. I vented . Lucy, I didn’t mean to target you. I am just so sick of it all. I know my children love me and it hurts that I can’t even defend myself to them . My ex, her family and the courts don’t realize that being pushed out of my twin’s life’s is a whole special kind of hell. Dad’s don’t just love their children every now and then. It’s a love without end. thank you
Robert,
You surely are right about biases against men, biased judgement the moment a woman files a complaint against man, or parental (mainly father) alienation after getting favourable (mainly biased) custody rights.
But still, I think you have simply painted with broad brush. Most physical family violence cases against men are true. So, vilest of woman use false violence case as weapon against man. You got one such in your life, but trust me not everyone is like that.
In my opinion, parental alienation is much bigger and widespread problem. It is an aftereffect of a nasty divorce. There are few people who show maturity with impressionable children, and avoid the temptation of maligning other especially after a nasty court battle.
PS: You sure made a mistake indicating to judge that you feel judge cannot do justice. One must always say “Yes! Master” in front of judge, and only then try to influence him to see your point of view. Something that is hard to do with finesse. 😉
Robert my son got a divorce from in my mind one of the meanest women who ever walked. Long story short so far she’s failed several drug tests showing marawane cocain herowin calanapin and what not in her system and yet the judge gave 50/50 custody to her she doesn’t live with my grandson she lives 65miles away only comes to her parents house to see him maybe every 2 to 3 weeks for maybe a day or two my grandson is 9 going on ten now he hates staying with her parents would much rather stay with his dad and us as my son is currently living with me I built them a new house on twenty acres of land but I never signed it over to them because of evidence I found out that she was seeing outher men not one mind you but two. I never told my son this never but they got a divorce shortly after the birth of my grandson she dropped the baby off on my wife who was just in disbelief she said to me well I guess you and I have a little boy to raise he needs our help I said it seems that way as his mouther has left him my son decided to stay at our house helping to raise him while he worked after one year she comes back with her parents leading the charge court order in hand constable with her took the little boy from us we went to court for 8 long years only to have the attorneys and judge play the money game to the tune of over 145 thousand dollars that I gave my sons and our attorneys I’m sure God’s prepaired a special place in hell for judges and fucking lawyers! It seems that in our system women can do anything they want and the law won’t do anything to them! My grandson says to me one day pappy I will leave them and I don’t ever want to see them ever again! He was quesstioned by the judge and he told the truth about how his mouther lied about living with him about getting him school clouthing and such !after he told the truth his mouther and grandparents on her side took him home and beat him with a belt for telling the truth if you danail are reading this and have figured out it’s ME [CONTENT DELETED BY THE ADMINISTRATOR] so Robert you’re not the only one putting up with the impossable I’ve been told I don’t have a long time left so I was thinking maybe I can solve this thing the fucking judge wont
While I did not have this entire comment deleted, I must advise you not to post content that is either deliberately inflammatory, generally offensive, or unnecessarily crude or provocative. This blog is widely read and highly regarded for its integrity, which I must protect. So I deleted some content and made some mild modifications of other content. Please be mindful of the nature of the content of your comments in the future.
mike,
You are absolutely right about “It seems that women can do anything they want and the law won’t do anything to them!”
… and lawmakers all over the world are not done yet.
Problem is not as much as law itself. It is the implementation. It is the system. Also, I think most women do not misuse, but that may vary from country to country. Maybe, most women do not use the law when they actually should have. When few of them do use, they tend to go all the way.
“if you danail are reading this and have figured out it’s ME know this I will shoot you very dead if it happens ever again and the courts can do with me what they want but you will be gone out of his life forever!!”
It is a rigged boxing match, not a physical one but a mental one. She is allowed hammer etc, whereas you are given a foamed glove, and obviously biased system plays the referee. You have most of your life in front of you, and your son has all his life in front of him. Keep getting your small blows on her, and she will give up once she finds another easy way out. Form a support group, or go solo. If your son already sees her for what she is, then it is just matter of time before he just walks out of her net. Though I will not outright reject your choice of fast settlement, but something like that will be too extreme that is applicable only to rare cases. Trust me that your situation is not very uncommon. I will sooner or later find myself in your situation. People, including kids are lot more resilient than what you think. They follow their basic nature, and need to believe that there is light in the end of tunnel. Give them bit of support and they will pull through.
oops, missed a bit. mike, you are grandad, not son.
… read my previous post as if addressed to husband having 9 yr old son.
I am sorry to hear that, but I think that when the children are older they will understand the difference and come back to you
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
Couldn’t be MORE wrong
It’s at times like this that your CD Ex employee/spouse/accquaintan e/other is MOST likely to avail themselves of a corrupt, prejudicial biased and largely patriarchial legal system. This is nothing less that a race to see who can get the upper hand by filing first and the PO is just another tool that is handed out like candy usually in an one sided ex parte hearing by overly cautious judiciary who justify their pedantic average existences by destroying another persons life, career and reputation strictly on the heavily prejudiced word of the party with an agenda, often simply to stymie the opposition.
While there are certainly cases in which a PO is warranted, more often than not this is not the case
MJ, ANDY & MIKE, there are many of us experiencing the moral, ethical and life changing injustice that is brought on by false allegations and “ex parte,….married with 3 beautiful boys(27)(25)&(16), I worked as a federal contractor and a youth football coach, she never worked and I was helping pay for her medical school cert.training, after 18 yrs of being married(23 yrs.together), 1 week before her graduation she files for divorce, didn’t go as planned for her as she relied on mediation to help her and I showed up with parenting plan, visitation schedule and sufficient family support proposal, after the divorce she still stood in the house(opposite side), she didn’t work, didn’t interact with our 16 yr old and refused to contribute(household chores) after hearing my son complain that mom came in hammered a few nights, yelling and breaking things downstairs, I told her in the best interest of our son and his environment, he and I were moving at the end of June, she went ballistic and said your crazy if you think your leaving with my son, among other choice words, 4 days later, we’re upstair watching football and a so called friend comes over goes upstairs and hands me a big stack of papers, too sheet had “police” written on it, I get up to turn on the light and he comes back and request the papers back takes the ones with police in it, right at that time I hear a pounding on the door, then the voices coming up saying, stay in an open area we know you have a gun, comply with our request, I place the papers on the bed and continued to say my 16yr old son is up here please refrain from having guns drawn, they came up and immediately arrested me for violation of a temporary R. o , no matter how many times I repeat what R. O(I never had time to see what was giving to me) officer rolled up the papers and placed them in my shorts pocket,. and said they received a complaint the a violation of a R. O was in progress(she called and said I was served, then left for 45mins and returned)From that very moment everything I had was taken from me, 17 days in jail, transferring on the main line, claiming my innocence, every court appearance was worse then the next, I requested to represent myself in this matter and was silenced and held with contempt of court, kept sending a young Public Pretender to tell my sister I had a good case, but was telling me to keep fighting it and stay in jail or plead no contest and go home now, almost 3weeks without my son’s, communication and sleep, I pleaded, regrettably so because they took away everything, Nat. Sec. Clearance, certification(state) band me from my house, personal possession, no contact order, batterers class(52 weeks @$1300, comm. Serv hrs., Loss of gun privliges, til this day I haven’t been able to return and that day 5 mins after I was removed, she came upstairs removed my belonging, placed in garage and moved into my room, my son tells me when he visits how she regularly gives my electronics, sports equipment and misc. Items away to her so called classmates, I’ve been trying to retrieve my things but she refused to comply or accept any dates. I’ve requested through a document service co. And our Legal system won’t lift s finger to help, haven’t been able to obtain employment(1st time in 43 yrs), I have no car, in medical and receiving assistance and just was told I have bad small heart valve, heart disease(heart is at 20%)… She did this all because my son and I were going to move and she was afriad it would make her look like a bad mom, huh, obvious she is because she has him staying there but rarely spends any time with him, apparently we’re both now effected by her.
I think this person is inquiring about just the father of her children, and because she claims he has a character disorder, she believes he is abusing his rights are being abused, hence the scare quotes around “rights” when she describes his access. She’s afraid of that person, and so she sees his rights as “rights” he should not have.
I think she is implying that the court did not look closely at the father’s history and issues, assigning him access based only on an over-generalized of parental rights, rather than taking into consideration any problems and trying to work within his rights while still protecting the children. In other words, his rights as man with children were in fact awarded, and the mother is asking that the court look closely at the individual situation.
Thanks for the clarification
I’m sorry but I’m skeptical about most mothers saying fathers are doing something wrong. Of course there is different circumstances. My man is an amazing dad and the ex uses child as a weapon. Manipulates her and makes her feel guilty for loving her dad. Denies any request for extra time even though she has her 85 percent of the time. Texts him that daughter hates him and hates visiting. She believes that she can do whatever she wants and breaches court order agreement on countless occasions but if father does same thing we get toxic emails. He has never taken her to school or picked her up even though he asks. She says it’s her time. She uses the past to hurt this reputation . She pursued him moved in had a kid bought a house and said yes to proposal. If he was so bad then why stay.
M,
It don’t know how long you have been with your man, but it could be otherwise. If a child is hating spending time with her father, there is likely a reason for it and parental alienation is a scam — junk science, a made up condition by a scammer of an ‘expert’ who also subscribes to pedophilia (or has some connection to the ‘adult-child’ pedo ideology).
My first thought in reading your comment is that you sound like a duped/manipulated flying monkey or abuser-apologist. Most guys who abuse their partners and their children get the next woman in their lives to see them as the victims of an evil mother/ex-wife who is keeping poor, poor dad from his children.
I could be wrong and you know best, but that was my first reaction. Especially jarring was your last line “if he was so bad then why stay” since abusers entrap their targets and make sure their victims cannot leave. They have a child with their victim to deepen the entrapment. Victims stay because of threats of harm to them, to the kids, threats of taking the kids away, threats of homelessness and financial ruin, threats of making sure everyone hates the victim and she has nobody. Most victims stay because by the time the abuse starts the abuser has striped the victims of any self-esteem. Victims are blamed for the abuse, shamed for it, and led to believe (the lie) that if they only did this, or changed this, or acted this way, then the abuse and violence would stop. Many victims also believe that since there is a child in the picture, they need to stay with the abuser so the child grows up in a 2-parent household, doesn’t have divorced parents, etc. A lot of religious teachings also keep abused women in bondage to abusers. Financial reasons entrap victims and force them to stay with their abusers. Abusers sabotage victims’ efforts in school, work, friends, family, independence and autonomy. The stress of being abused also wears on victims and aids in the entrapment. Trauma can leave a victim immobilized. Fear, dread, and induced debility also keep the victim entrapped.
Im going through this now whilst my fiance battles a narcissistic personality exwife in court. Its been an eye opener and one that has left me many times shacking my head in disgust at the lengths some people go to to “get back” at their ex’s. She is your classic type and is even blaming and pulling away from her own children in the process (leaving us with having them 24/7…all teenagers too!) I suspect its because her current boyfriend dosnt want the hassle of having her children stay with them and so instead of taking personal responsibility and saying, I cant have you because BF said no…she is projecting onto them and setting them up and making out that she cant have them because they treat her soooo badly! SHE is the one treating them so abysmally!
Her son who is 14 displays emotional manipulative attributes similar to her…and its defiantly causing issues at home living with us FT 24/7 without a break. If I had a guess…I would also say he is displaying classic signs of a narcissist personality disorder as well…sigh..
Your life will revolve around that child. He needs specialized help and so much work. I have been going through this with my step daughter for 16 years. I thought she would grow up/out of it. She is 22 now and is a pathological liar, manipulates her father all the time and has created so much drama and chaos for so many years it has become our normal. Her mother is horrendous and her father (my husband) is the abusive person this article speaks of. I told him I was done if he was not prepared to get professional help. Of course he said no..all our problems are my doing in his delusional eyes. So now I have him defaming me to friends and family and all I want is a peaceful parting. He is afraid I am going to out him and his abuse, so he is now working on getting people in our lives to believe I am some sort of lying, crazy, unreasonable person..and ironically, that is what he is. I have a road of yuck ahead. Stay strong and get some counseling from a person that specializes in blended families. Good luck and God Bless you.
Be careful. It usually takes two. I have too many friends who were duped by their partners with a history of victimization by exes, or whatever.
My very smart, pretty, TV presonality friend married a divorced man, “victim” of his ex and children. She explained her strange choice that she knew “he was a dedicated family man and it wasn’t his fault”. She suffered horribly, and eventually realized he was a sex addict and a fraud.
He ended up being her “victim” after she left him as well. She always had a nurse Betty personality that wanted to help people, but she was always smarter than most. No one is immune.
Some people victimized history is widely spreading to the public, so they is no place for denial or change the fact of their history
GeeWhiz, Robert! I hope you can have her prosecuted for sending your nude pic to the 13 yr old! Did the DA not go after her or is that not a federal offense ? From what you are saying she is SHOWING repeated behavioral patterns of a CD person which I would think there has to be some civil torts you can use in civil court!
Can’t you file a lawsuit in civil court against her ? Bc if you can and she doesn’t show up or respond you could get a judgement against her? What a nightmare it must be, not to mention the damage being done to these children . Maybe the evil gene really exists what else drives these creatures but pure evil.
My husband and I have had a rocky marriage for years, sometimes worse, sometimes better. The more I would try to be submissive as I had been taught, and as fit my nature as a pleaser, the worse it would get. Over the years, and as the kids got older, and after I went back to work, it gradually improved.
However, now I have stage 4 cancer. During six months of chemo, he was mostly wonderful. However he was obsessed with trying to control all my appointment cards and then we would get into arguments about dates and times until he finally produced the card only to find what I wrote on my calendar was right. (Kind of weird – one time he was even refusing to let our grown daughter see them when she was trying to arrange to be at some of my appointments and treatments to give him a break because he had been telling everyone how hard it was on him while he had to work, too.) But, most of the time during chemo and immediately after surgery, he was great. Then, like turning off a light switch, he suddenly withdrew all affection from me, still seems to be repulsed at even touching me, moved into the guest room at my surgery and over a year later is still there until “I get well” (remember – stage 4 cancer – that means never) and becomes extremely angry if I try to talk about any of this and if I tell him I am hurt, then I am ungrateful. He is so controlling that he would not even discuss allowing me to go to my brother’s funeral even though the oncologist said OK. He is hostile about my church (or any church for that matter – they are all evil and worldly and “not doing their job” and all ministers are “in it for the money”) and it really bothered him that they kept offering to help. He really seemed to prefer that I make a 100+ mile round trip daily on my own than accept rides from the ladies at my church, but I accepted help from them anyway the second time I had radiation. The first time I tried to do it his way and was getting so sick from the radiation that a childhood friend who lived the clinic intervened and she and her husband told him I was going to stay with them the rest of treatment and amazingly, he backed down instead of fighting.
I don’t have the emotional or physical resources to handle much more of this. I don’t have the financial resources (income and insurance) to leave. He has tried to convince my doctors and our kids that I am having serious emotional problems. I went to a counselor for a while and she helped me a lot and reassured me that I am not the emotional mess he says I am and that I have legitimate complaints about his behavior.
Right now, all I see to do is pray, try to focus on the good gifts God has given me, and try to keep the kids out of it. (He lost a lot of credibility recently when he opposed the baptism of our grandson and I rebelled and went to the service. So, if I live long enough…..)
Hi Dr. Simon,
I married a guy 17 years ago, who I believed to be close to perfect. He was my brothers childhood friend. and everyone had always spoken about him in awe. His character traits (or should I say act) where of someone very calm, levelheaded, humble, responsible, intelligent, high achieving, concerned, caring. Always seem to have glowing reports from work. I myself am quite severely dyslexic with attention deficit although my intelligence is total fine. I am highly sensitive, I think it might be a trait of the dyslexia (one of the symptoms often stated is, strong sense of justice) strange hey? Lately there is some talk that dyslexic is on the opposite side of the spectrum to autism. Anyway, early in our marriage my husband Paul was not meeting my emotional needs. If I were not dyslexic, I would’ve got out then. Unfortunately I was afraid of not coping financially on my own. So because I thought he just didn’t understand, and because he was always on time, and didn’t mess me around. I remained in the marriage. The symptoms I experienced from Paul my husband were. Financial abuse always complaining about how much I spent on groceries, whenever I bought for the house or clothing for us it was always wrong. Going through my cash slips. Interrogating me about them. Never smiling or being happy. Creating a foreboding atmosphere in the house. Where I felt like the naughty child that was going to be punished at anytime. Not looking me in the eyes when he spoke to me, instead looking down the passage behind me, looking at the floor etc. no eye contact. Overriding me when I try to set boundaries for my children. Constantly invalidating me. e.g. when I made a statement, on a topic and telling me I had the wrong end of the stick, or it didn’t quite work like that. Always criticising never complementing. Brutal honesty. Blaming me for everything. Not answering me when I spoke to him. Or his responses to do everything where capricious. Not allowing me to put any structures in place. Treating me with the same amount of affection as distant relatives. Withholding love and affection. Siding with anybody that hurt and then making sure he became closer to them, therefore making me angry with them, then blaming me for not getting on with anyone. Setting up surreptitious scenarios that caused me immense pain and suffering. Telling me when to go to bed, what time to make dinner, what to have for lunch, how to wash the dishes. Finally as I struggled to pull things right, causing me to become very emotionally upset. Then making me out let him a psychological problem. I was actually started to believe it myself at one stage. Turning my once loving family on me at a time when I need really needed there help with his pathological liars telling them I was emotionally unstable, and he was the long-suffering one. Between my father and call contacting my ADHD psychiatrist, with stories that I was emotionally unstable and they feared for my children. Then we even talking about trying to get me institutionalised and all my wife signed over to my husband (I think this is called gaslighting) calling the police on. When I had never so much as haven’t had a speeding ticket. And all along I struggled to get our marriage therapist or my psychologist to believe what was going on. My husband Paul is so manipulative don’t I fear he will turned my own teenage children on me. The last few months have been total torture for me. I have lost over 10 ponds in weight. Believe I have PTSD symptoms just from this traumatic experience.
There are a few things I’d like to ask, I know we can’t diagnose him from this, to my knowledge he has never been involved in criminal behaviour but apparently started felt fire in Africa as a child. Which had to be put out by the Firefighters however I believe bed the scenarios he has put me up to where sadistic and vindictive. Also premeditated. Do you believe this person to be more narcissistic, or psychopathic? Also we are going into mediation very soon now. Do you think there is any value in insisting that he gets evaluated for a cluster B personality disorder. Just to make the authorities away of the problem I believe these disorders are very difficult to diagnose correctly. And if you believe this could be done. Is that they anybody you know near Charlotte North Carolina who you would recommend for this evaluation. I just want some way to try and guard against the manipulation on going.
A lot of the issues you and some others mention are in my opinion, gender based. He is a man, obviously he is an unhappy man. Your comment of “not meeting my emotional needs” is a red flag. No adult should depend on others to make them “satisfied”. There is a chance that your husband truly believes those things about you and your best bet is to control what you can, yourself. Focusing your energy on your husband allows him to hurt you and manipulate you more.
My husband went through a horrible time in life and experienced all of those behaviors. I tended to coddle him during difficult times, but after endless cycles of doing so, I stopped. He was monstrous. Although I understand he felt abandoned, the psychological abuse was so bad, I couldn’t be around him anymore. I had a good Catholic mother, and because of her example I tend to endure anything before doing something that might harm my children. I don’t depend on others to make me happy and focused on my own issues and improving myself. This made him angrier, but in the end, he learned to look to God for strengh, and not imperfect people like myself.
My husband, like most men is an amazing man, and an occasional monster. I try to focus on the good, and quickly forget the bad. Remember that your husband is somebody’s son, he is God’s son.
I can’t control my husband but I can control myself. I choose to treat my husband as I would want my son to be treated by his future wife. I choose to try and be the spouse I would want my son to have. From my experience in life that is usually how it works, and I don’t want my actions to come back and haunt me in any way.
Bottom line, focus on improving your own life and your relationship with God. Forgiveness will truly free you from manipulation. Treat everyone around you with love despite their flaws, and everything else will fall into place.
Michelle Pastor, the Bible has many references to how a man should treat a woman and a woman should treat a man. I’m sorry I can’t provide them but I’m pretty sure it does not condone monsters us abuse anywhere. Tolerating abuse is not a sign of self respect or self care. I don’t get the feeling that you truly understand the nature of a covertly manipulative and abusive entanglement or the damage it does.
If what you are doing works for you that is wonderful but to imply that every person in an abusive relationship should do the same is very narrow sighted.
I totally agree with you, Puddle! Thank you for your comment!
You are right that only you know your situation. If your husband is ridiculously abusive, you should leave. It is possible that is exactly what he wants. He doesn’t want to be the bad one. Plenty of men and women do that to get out of relationships without going down as the bad one.
If anyone thinks that being the victim shames their partner into submission, they should understand that it only makes them incredibly vulnerable to an admiring stranger. Being the victim, wether manipulation, or real, is the fastest way to make that happy go lucky lady, ridiculously attractive. My point is simply take control of yourself. Your husband can’t control your happiness.
Me personally, I would make sure it was understood that I gave it my all for the family that I love. Even if I didn’t love my husband, I would do my best to ensure that my children understood that I would give my life for them. I would be that person pushing my unpleasant partner to leave. Being an emotional mess never works. Just saying.
Depending on their potential sources and methods of persecution, they can follow you every single time. Regardless if you are far away from them
you cant manage or control narcissism. dont get counseling or therapy, just stop being so narcissistic and arrogant youself, and get the flock out
What do you mean?
anyone out there who has dealt with an ex wife with what i would say is manipulative personality disorder and verges on borderline personality disorder? this is time of year is when she cycles toward the worse.. uses my kids as leverage.. all towards the goal of making me mad. i show no emotion via text and email and she avoids in person conflict like the plague. i am readying myself to take her to court over visitation abuse. any help would be appreciated
Let your own integrity and history of reliability and trustworthiness lend credence to your assertion. Yes!
For the most part try to ignore it. People who want to believe it are not your friends. Your friends know better. Don’t get baited into showing anger and ranting back – they are masters at pushing buttons and making others look crazy.
In most cases the people who pay any attention to such a person are hardly (if at all) better than the person telling the distortions and lies.
There is NEVER anything that you could say that will make the “crazy person” say, “You’re right, I’m sorry. I’ll start telling everyone the truth”. These people refuse to “let go” and they are purposefully trying to get to you, and often are seeking pity for themselves as “the victim”. Given enough time and circumstances, others will see them for what they are and your life will hardly be blemished.
Thank you Dr. Simon for writing this article. I find it comforting to know I’m not the only one dealing with a manipulative-narcissistic ex…from 14 years ago mind you. It does take an emotional toll; but, only if I allow it. In your words, I’m going to “drop the anger like a hot potato”. I cannot control him; but, I can take charge of how I deal with it. I choose happiness. I choose to be healthy: mind, body and spirit.
I have two beautiful and healthy children that need a strong mother to guide them and I’m with a man that loves me and my children unconditionally. I have nothing to fear and so many things to be thankful for.
Self-empowered!!
I would like to know if you have survival strategies in dealing with this person, my current status is separated for some time now, issues serial cheater never intended to be married and monogamous, blames me for all. Scenarios vary from:
-lying about his funds
-lying about wanting to spending time w the children (toddler age)
-plays the martyr in many occasions: I provoked, it was my fault
-uses manipulation and other methods to lower my self-esteem
-uses the “i love you” phrase, although it means nothing
I dont know how to deal with the High’s and low’s and although I have removed myself enough, he still finds a way to take me down.
At this time I am learning a lot about the disorder and I need to find a way to communicate but not be emotionally engaged as it completely takes a toll on my body.
I think in time you will disengage and the powerful urge to defend yourself against his childish nonsense will dissipate. Learning as much as you can and keeping yourself away from him as much as possible will help you tremendously. Try putting every response in the form of a question and justify nothing to him. Do not get trapped in answering his questions or defending yourself. Don’t allow him to pull you in. Worse case…… Don’t say anything but “I’ll have to think about that”. Practice your pat responses on paper and most importantly out loud so they are readily available when you need them!!
So true and very well said. I think this advise is good to remember to use with any of the CD we may encounter. I will write this down and memorize less I forget and start to be drawn in. Thank you!
BTOV, you know what? It’s what THEY do! Only they do it for a different reason, deception vs defense.
Lost Wife, when someone says they love you and you are pretty sure they don’t mean it, ask them what they love about you or what they mean by “love”. I did this once to a soon to be ex-boy friend and he looked like someone who was about to get hit head on me a train. Deer in the headlights.
I actually did think Spathtard loved me…….sometimes but that is why the whole mess was so confusing and damaging. I doubted myself when I thought he loved me and when I thought he didn’t love me. He loves me, he loves me not. He loves me, he loved me NOT! But I loved him so much in spite of that annoying, nagging feeling that he was so good at quieting. I was addicted to him, no doubt about it.
Sorry, BY a train……
Puddle, gosh I know those thoughts! ((hugs)) And the doubts. They kept circling and sometimes I thought yes…then others no. There is the huge red flag, questioning love. Yet they play the love card so well. My ex would say all the time that we had a love between us that no one else could possibly understand. Sounds like something out of a movie doesn’t it and I’ll admit my ego liked that I suppose. What a hook, swallowed the bait whole for so many years. I read about the whole addiction and trauma bonding and I always think yes yes yes… it’s all there and yet there is always something else and at the core it was love and family. Family meant so much to me, the whole love, marriage, children building a home and growing old together. So I stayed because that was the dream and that’s all it was a great big illusion that I kept trying to make a reality and couldn’t do it. That’s the biggest hurt giving all your love to someone who didn’t deserve it, who sucked it out of you like a vampire until there is nothing more to give. Then he leaves you like an undead being who has to find life again.
Tori, The bottom line is, if you don’t feel safe you probably aren’t, easy to say now! But in the moment and in the madness that they create, you cling to the boat even though it’s full of holes and quickly filling with water.You are madly bailing while they are drilling more holes and watching you bail.
It is so completely like an addiction. It doesn’t matter how bad it is for you or how sick you get from doing it, you still want more and you will continue to want more until you hit bottom(discard or depletion). You will continue to try to climb on to the sinking boat right to the point it slips below water.
{{{{Love and HUGS to all of you!!}}}}
Hi Tori and Puddle,
They say love is like an addiction. I think it’s as much the other way around. Addictions (for some) are like love. That soothing calm, the oceanic floating feeling of being connected approximates love to some degree. Of course real love can’t be replicated, in a way that doesn’t cause some terrible backlash. It is so important that in all of our dealings with others we remember that we are all striving for this perfect feeling, this bliss, this feeling of being nurtured, cared for, protected and held. We can do that here, through text alone. I am trying to apply this to my dealings with others now. (Auto spell check just changed ‘others’ to ‘otters’. So glad I caught that! LOL.). Those on the forum here are probably a bit ahead of me, in this respect, so am not preaching. I have found that reading Dr.Simon’s articles and absorbing his message and point of view is softening my character, kind of helping to heal me. I am more aware of my character flaws and working to understand them and change…but all gently gently.
LisaO, Dr. Simon is such a good example to us all but I especially appreciate the moderate way he addresses problems. I’m pretty much in awe of it actually! I have a long way to go in that department. I think you have a mix in your approach and it usually seems like a good mix, certainly leaning strongly towards the compassionate, understanding and amazingly perceptive and validating side! You always put my feelings and experience in much better words than I can even find for them. It alway makes me feel so good to read your words and think, YES! Like that!
Lost Wife,
Going through similar problems as you are, what you can do is have as minimal contact with him as possible. No contact is best. The games will never end. His tactics will not end. The lies won’t end. He will probably get even worse. I, myself have big trouble disengaging because I become furious. No contact or as minimal as possible is the only way I can survive it.
I’m not sure of what your situation is but I’m very familiar with dealing with this kind of phociapath. If you message him text/email always read it again before you send it go off for a few minutes if you have to then come back read it again before you send it. Or I found cutting all ties changing my number blocking all social media sights I personally needed to cut him out of my life whilst I was emotionally involved because I knew I would get caught up in his manipulation and I couldn’t live like that anymore despite how much I loved him or rather the character he pretended to be I hated the nervous paranoid emotional wreck he made me into questioning my own sanity ! I made the mistake of not keeping any evidence he sent so if you do have any keep it. Ask for a harassment order if he’s still contacting you. Regarding the children and contact get a communication book or a diary don’t explain or go in to detail about anything just keep it simple and let him know the things a real concerning father should know I.e dates times hospital appointments. Get a friend or family member to do handover and make it clear that’s all their their for not to pass on messages. If you have to do a handover arrange to do it at a police st get their 10 mins earlier explain to the officer and ask them if they can keep an eye out to what’s going on. Join a gym or fitness class trust me after a few weeks you will gradually get better it’s better then putting anti Ds in your body. The worst thing is trying to explain to someone what our exs are like to someone who’s never experienced dealing with these type of people in fact the more you metion it the more the lies theve made up about you sound realistic. Any conversation you have get in wrighting. He said she said doesn’t count as evidence. I know it hurts like hell now but your greving over someone who never really egsisted he’s waisted so many years don’t let him waste anymore. Never let your guard down as it states theirs no cure so if he says he has you know that’s impossible. Hope this helps anyone who’s dealing with anyone similar
I know Puddle, I think he loved me in the only way he was capable of love, but at least we can truly love. Don’t beat yourself up, I still ask why too, but at least we could walk away and learn. For them and what a waste, they stay stuck forever in toddle time, the eternal victims. I was having a conversation with a nice fellow and he told me about his experience with a woman he wanted further commitment from. Interestingly, he asked her to stare into his eyes for five minutes and tell him what she saw. He said she couldn’t answer him. He said its as though she had no words and was clueless about my request. I said you got your answer, she wasn’t capable. He is glad he moved on.
BTOV…….. I very often can’t find words for what I see and feel and experience. It’s like it’s on some other level that doesn’t translate into words. Sometimes I feel like a baby, like when they get all excited and happy and squeel with delight because they don’t have the words yet to express what they are feeling?
Sadly, I used to look into his eyes and I’d tell him he had the kindest eyes……….I think I interpreted boyishness for kindness, clearly I had it ALL wrong!!
Oh Lord, Puddle,
This man was repairing core wounds that went back to infancy, gently coaxed out innocence, wonder, the delight of feeling safe and nurtured. Just a theory, the kindness you saw in his eyes was your own mood reflected back and amplified. It was your own sweetness you saw in his eyes. It’s possible he was mirroring your eye movements, too. The sadist who targeted me did that. It was unusual, extremely bonding. Made him seem super kind close and familiar. I did a google search and found out it’s a hypno-technique. He was intrigued by hypnotism, NLP. Should have been a red flag. But alas…hypnotic techniques can disable our defenses. This was one slick operator. But, as is the way with most of these people, life ends up composting their dreams, their sturdy facades get put through the chipper. And my auto spell check just changed sadist to sawdust– very apt. What life hands them is worse than the death penalty. They are rewarded, in the end, with nothing but themselves and that doesn’t amount to a hill of beans or a little pile of dust.
LisaO! LOL……….yeeeeeeeeees…………sawdust……….chipper……..hmmmmmm…..
Oh sorry, never mind!! I remember him watching me eat right from the beginning and he would take a bite when I did and then this other ppath I now know is a ppath would predator stare me when I was eating! What the H? I’m telling you he zeroed right in on my inner baby and I’m sure that is what the holding me was all about. I loved in and purred like a kitten. I couldn’t get close enough to him and he never seemed to tire of having e close to him………….ok, now I’m crying. What a genuine prick!
just all so sick LisaO. I feel like such a fool because I really did make an ass out of myself in SO many ways for him! I just couldn’t even begin to list them!!!
You made an ass of yourself, like you didn’t understand what he was so you put up with WAY too much? Of course, when someone is ‘mending wounds’ by tearing them apart and crapping in them, it’s profoundly confusing. We’re not acting like asses, we are just being human and exposing all of our vulnerabilities in the process. I feel I have to write a work of fiction based loosely on my experience just to convey the absolute horror of being targeted by someone who is highly emotionally sadistic and very stealthy. Truly, people can’t get it unless they experience it. The P stalked forums looking for women undergoing psychotherapy for trauma, professing a strong desire to help! He was a lay expert in the area of PTSD. When he found out my childhood injuries revolved around fear of being abandoned and feeling I didn’t exist, he started to control me by going silent. Think you feel like an idiot? Why would anybody even speak to anybody who did that to them, out of the blue?
I really hope he was after my husband’s money, as that at least makes sense. It’s immoral and awful, but it’s something within the realm of understanding. The other — that he did it for fun, testing his skills at hypnosis and NLP on me, at the same time, is beyond my comprehension. That kind of sustained cruelty…I just don’t get and I am glad I don’t.
I made an ass out of myself trying to keep my new found favorite drug in my system. It’s hard to say exactly what was happening and when it started for me.
I hear you on the “after your husbands money part”. If it were that, you could walk away any say,?what an ass and a jerk but there is no clear ending to this type LisaO because it’s so alien and bizarre. Like I told you, a psychopath is summed up like this, someone who delights in doing harm and I might add, pulling one over in the process. Harming animals, setting fires, calling in bomb threats, lording their self entitled power over others. But here’s the “funny” thing, without someone or something to control or harm they are powerless. Spathtard was a weak willed, ineffectual hack!! He said a very interesting thing to me one time towards the end, a “tell” I’m sure now. He said ” I don’t think you feel in control unless things are out of control”. I remember at the time thinking, WHAT? Who are we talking about? Granted, I do list towards being a person who needs to feel like I’m in control but that is mostly out of necessity because of my mental processing issues and the need for order. But what he was saying had nothing to do with that!
A really good quote along those lines is “Power over others is only weakness disguised as strength”.
I am almost certain that there is a huge tie in with these types and the whole mother issue. I’ve heard and seen time and time and time again, some variation on the messed up mother/ son dynamic. I’m not saying it is THE only piece of the puzzle but I fo believe it’s a strong component.
I apologize for jumping in between. Never call yourself an ass for having loved. To love in the form you loved spath is a beautiful trait. I believe there is a mother connection and a very big one too. Just don’t have time right now to go into it.
I hear you BTOV, and I do see that the reason I made an ass of myself was due to conditions that he created. Under normal conditions I do lean towards the insecure side but usually know and am able to put my foot down and say no, enough, f’off etc. I actually did in the beginning with Spathtard. He was able to do, as LisaO says, an end run around my normal defenses.
All I can say now is at least he’s good at something!
Puddle, I don’t think you should ever call yourself an “Ass.” I need to think about this today, if some of you other ladies could help to find a better word for “Ass.” I think it is to demeaning. You loved and were honest, you would have given anything of yourself to make your relationship work, that is not an “Ass.”. For now have a wonderful and blessed day.
BTOV, I see what you are saying and maybe the word “ass” isn’t the right choice but I don’t know what would be. Knowing what I know now, i don’t feel as much shame over it as I initially did, that is true.
Puddle, The word “Ass” is a degrading term to describe oneself after the hell we went through. You were a companionate person who gave freely of yourself. Yes in so many instances we used poor judgment and did many things and to much to and used many wrong ways in order to try to preserve and cope, in the relationship that does not make you and “Ass.” If you were an “Ass” you would not be here sharing your story and reaching out. We will find a more appropriate word which will benefit us all. Regardless of everything, I was not an “Ass.” Other adjectives yes, but not that.
Just to be clear, I’m not saying I AM an ass, but that I made an ass out of myself for him. It’s true. I think back and my stomach turns over all the things I said and did for that idiot. I feel like I made an ass out of myself and that doesn’t mean I AM an ass. The situation evoked assish behaviors and choices from me! The good news is that now that I’m away from his manipulative games, I’m no longer acting like an ass but he still IS an ass and always will be!! LOL!
Let me tell you, I’ve made an ass out myself in other situations, all around drinking. Acting the fool, no control, dishonoring myself. You weren’t there and I was and I do know when I make an ass out of myself. It’s ok, I’m not offended by it now, I see it for what it was. I’ve acted like an idiot at times which doesn’t mean I’m an idiot. Semantics.
AND, I don’t feel like I acted like an ass for loving him. It’s other behaviors, things I did and said trying to “keep him” when clearly he was in covert discard mode.
Puddle, I agree he was the ass, you, maybe foolish. I say this in respect to this: I loved mine in the way the way I loved my children, I would do almost anything for them, were they always good choices, yes and no, were they poor, sometimes, was I full of love and humanity, yes, and at times to much. For having loved to much call myself an “ass” never. As I look back I was used in so many ways I had no conception of at the time, so very naïve and innocent in my thinking. I can look back and think what a fool I was, but I don’t. I know that I was sincere and genuine in my thoughts, words, deeds, feelings and trust. He was the liar to himself and to me. I look at it in what can I take from this experience and be the best I can be. Grow, Grow, Grow, and look back that I have made it through the worst years of my life and now these will be the best years of my life. I hope that I may find someone to share these years with, but if I don’t that’s OK too, because I feel comfortable in my skin so to speak. This is just my feelings on this. Being who you are blessings (good things)will come your way.
It’s ok BTOV, we were the innocents. They were the perpetrators.
I can’t say I WAS an ass or that I WAS a fool but I acted like an ass because that’s what he orchestrated. They love to bring you down to their low level but it’s only temporary and once we recover we spring back while they stay mired in their own filth.
In my own way, I grovled before him and that was foolish but not in light of the covert mind and heart screwing he was in the process of pulling off. I was like a tire that he had let the air out of but still trying to move the car. It makes me sad because I know where I was coming from 100%. No tricks, no fakery just clueless that any human being would ever be such a pretender and empty fake.
Let’s not get caught up in this BTOV. I think we are on the same page and most importantly,,,,,, I’m not saying anyone IS an ass. Not me, certainly not you, it’s them.
Puddle, I don’t think we are getting caught up in this. The more one says here the more validating, and those very tiny things that were overlooked then come to light. I was so clueless too. Where it became more obvious, when I knew something was very wrong is when he and would say blatantly started to define reality. He honestly was that arrogant and thought I was that malleable and stupid. I am the crazy you know. I know what happened, so I sat back and listened and watched. One other thing I did was tape record the conversation and played it for some real competent individuals. Now I had a better idea that it wasn’t all me. When I didn’t react in the fashion set forth Boy O Boy was the heat on. I have learned a lot from this exchange, Thank you
BTOV, you are right, each exchange does teach me something no matter what the subject seems to be about. It stirs memories and new reflection reveals another layer. By “not getting caught up in it” I only meant the “ass” part because I knew what I meant and I felt like we were not on the same page in some way. I appreciate your input BTOV and you really do have some good ideas and food for thought. You seem to really grasp this.
BTOV, you said…….
“Where it became more obvious, when I knew something was very wrong is when he and would say blatantly started to define reality.”
Spathtard did this right from the get go but I didn’t understand what was going on. I would turn myself inside out trying to say what I had said more clearly so he didn’t misunderstand ( so I thought ).
Again, once the curtain was pulled back and he threw his mask on the floor during the discard, I figured out that he knew what I meant all along but was toying with me and undermining my strength (in so many ways).
Puddle, First I would like to say I respect everyone’s right to disagree, but a good dialog of good banter can open doors of understanding. Especially, sometimes when one doesn’t get it it may be the 20th response and “Bingo” the light goes on. Yes, now I know he was doing it from the start in very wee increments. Many of the things very good ideas and ways to do things, ways to avoid mistakes and errors, but that is how one learns many times by trial and error. His intentions at times were caring but the more he did it it was to transform me into the perfect Stepford wife. In the end it wasn’t even covert which it was for years and many times I believe in the beginning it was even intentional though it is still hard to believe. I don’t think everything was at first but then there were times for a brief moment that will haunt me forever. It was only for a second, it was like the smug devil of Satan himself. Then times there was a caringness to it that I believe was real. His learned way of survival to get needs met starting as a very young child. There is so much that can be said but in the end the mutation of pathology became more sadistic in nature. Still looking to fill that inner void and I am sure the haunting voices of unfulfilled validation from both parents. Very sad indeed, but still a choice to become and take the road of the CD manipulator instead to mature and act like a man. This may sound very odd, I had absolutely no idea what he was doing. It all took place very subtilely over a long period of time. During all this I had no idea of what I was dealing with, and as time passed it got worse. He doesn’t fit into Spaths Mo but at the same time is as sick and twisted, the term best suited is demented. How warped can a mind be to sit and plot. Its so sad so many people have lost their way. My strength comes from my faith. See where this conversation went. I surprised myself I said so much. Blessings
Puddle, The reason you had to keep turning yourself inside out hoping he would understand is or at least I feel in my case, they can hear us, but its not what they want to hear. If its not their idea, or they didn’t think of it first or its not in their words its no good and yes, the jealousy. Then, too, in many things they just don’t get it because their brain can’t comprehend in some instance’s and then there is selfishness and envy which all play a part. The deadly sins, that is why and its hard to understand and at times admit, but oh so evil. Because in their end game it is meant to conquer and destroy. The justice in it all is, they destroy their selves, and if we haven’t found our true selves and potential, now we have the opportunity too. I know and have run into so many people with this sickness, that is what is truly scary but then, its the sign of the times we are in.
Yes, I know what you are saying, those beautiful blue eyes, but now know there was something missing. Perhaps you are relating to your inner child and relating on that level. It’s hard to believe the CD is emotionally stuck in emotional infancy. Your inner child is healthy and perhaps finally even though an adult enjoying some of those feelings you were never able to express. Its not essay when it applies to your personal experience. As an outsider it is easy to see the retardation in the CD’s development of emotional development , emotionally stuck in infancy. I guess we were treating them in a way like we would love our child and want to see them happy. Does that make sense. I know all of this is such a shock. I guess its the same type of shock they would experience if they could get out of toddle time long enough to honesty look at themselves and act like an adult. And, I do believe it is possible, they just don’t want to. At least we have the courage to keep doing the work to be the best we can be and humbly admit our shortcomings and act like decent grownups. Its hard work isn’t it. I think too, there is so much here to consider, digest and absorb. You have the capacity for deep understanding and insight, look what you have learned form your experience with the CD. Never put yourself down, I have learned a lot from your posts. Lots of thoughts to digest. Did Spath have any words when he looked into your eyes?
I think perhaps you had it right just not the right person. I understand your experience, sorrow and loss. Thank you for your posts and blessings.
Aw, BTOV, Thank you for you kind words, thoughts, understanding and validation. It was so weird with him………….sometime I felt like I was with a MAN, like a father figure in a way. Other times like a boy, now i see that. I think I was just so thoroughly confused on all levels and I did and said all the wrong things across the board. I do believe they excel in putting you in a position to fail. They LOVE to bring you down to their level.
Just all so confusing still…….
But, yes…..he would look me in the eyes and say he loved me but it never FELT right. I can’t explain how complicated it all was, how real I thought it was but at the same time how precarious it all felt but it was all moving so fast and in different directions up and down and sideways. He did tell me things BTOV but I don’t think any of it was real. He would tell me things and cry but I don’t know what to think of any of that, you know?
Many blessings to you BTOV!
I can still see him as a MAN and as a toddler…..I think I loved the combination of energy, just not the side affects. On 180 (another site) they had a picture of this young boy statute throwing a temper tantrum and OMG……..it looked just like him to me.
During one of the big final break up meltdowns, I fired that off to him and told him F’off…..Mommy will kiss and make better. this was after a particularly cold and callous f’you fest that he bestowed on me over some ridiculous made up atrocity I had inadvertently committed…….gas-lighting extrodinare.
Btov, you got it. It is hard work to work on ourselves! Something the CD are unable to do, apparently. Or unwilling? I think Dr. Simon would say they are unwilling without the right incentives? What do you think?
LisaO you and Puddle made some very interesting points. And, Puddle I can totally understand what you are saying, it is hard to put into words, I think because it is so abnormal an confusing. All this touches the inside of your being and soul to depths not many understand unless they have been there and then too many others don’t want to do the work and find answers. Let me think on this for awhile. If I forget remind me to come back here. I think the more I understand be it however crazy it helps me to make peace and hopefully, never fall for another ruse of the CD. Acceptance of our loss and through our tears and agonizing pain we grow to new heights that we may never had reached, had we not experienced this.
Hi Puddle, I found the post, It the one where I begin, First I would like to say: Its about the third one up.
Puddle, The post I couldn’t find is the one 3 up from this one. Just wondering if you had anything to add, or comment on in regards to your situation. Thanks.
BTOV, hi! I actually re-found these post sometim yesterday(?) but didn’t have time to post on them then something else came up, etc. I’m going to copy and paste them to myself to read thoroughly and will comment. Sorry it’s taking me so long 🙁
BTOV, I read both posts and your experience sounds text book, no? I used to find it sad too but not anymore because like you said, they CHOOSE the dark path and delight in being on it to cause destruction to those they envy and despise. This is the thing that seperates my brother, at least in this one way…… To the best of my knowledge he does not seek out to intentionally harm others. He has a twisted and warped way of thinking and behaving a lot of the the time and is beyond manipulative but different.
BTOV,LisaO, Tori. Et al! I’m loosing travck of posts I’m afraid. I just wish you all well and just can’t keep up with replies. (((((( Huge Hugs to all! )))))
Btov, Puddle, I managed to get through this and not become embittered. Neither of you have either, nor apparently most who arrive here. That’s the trick, to not change for the worse, to retain and try to nurture the inner child who entered center stage through this drama. We don’t want those damaged little tykes, formerly known as ‘us’ to make an occasional cameo appearance in our lives. We want to invite them to stay and play and keep us from getting brittle, bent. The degree to which we have access to that spontaneity, joy and innocence is the degree to which we can be hurt. We have retained something very precious. Let’s never let it go!
Oh girls, reading all your posts I can identify with so much and the making of an ass of myself though as BTOV says not an ass just loving too much! Reading all this about the confusion of their round about ways of talking, looking at you and the strange things they say. I have had the craziest of days. First I had to contact my ex about a call I shouldn’t have got…won’t go into details but I was not impressed…then he called back…well the rational talk took me completely off guard. It reminded me all too well of how he could be, apparently suddenly all is well and I should forget about how he’s treated me because that’s not really him, he’s been in a mess! OMG!! “Danger Will Robinson…Danger!!!” It turns out as I think on it a prediction I made has once more come about…legals over there is only one avenue left…so he’s after child access!
So now I feel like…well I don’t know right now because I feel just a tad vulnerable so yeah silly me engaged more than I should have.
Just lately I really felt like how or would I ever have another person in my life…nothing serious of course just these thoughts I have in the alone times as we do…What happens?? Suddenly a man appears…well not suddenly I have spoken to him a number of times but not with any intentions but today he’s so talkative and helpful to the point where I thought Oh interesting!! I thought he seemed like a nice clean cut fellow and then he tells me about his life…the red flag was not a flag it was a huge red blanket!!! Waving in front of me not unlike the story my ex told me when I met him! ARGH! So there I am nodding making the sympathy noises while inside my thoughts are… NO NO NO not even going there!
Don’t know why I am sharing this but I thought are these characters everywhere and why me! Obviously, I have a little more work to do on myself this single world is still too hard to navigate!
Tori! LOL!! RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!!
Good for you to spot the signs and red blanket!!
😉
Tori, Thanks for sharing. I know how you feel, am I now going to be alone the rest of my life, I ask this question too. With your X watch out, be very careful, remember they are Jeckyl and Hyde’s and will try to reel us in with their false self long enough to knock us off guard to get what they want. The other man, and remember we are all broken, did he do the work to correct his character flaws. I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my life and would not want to be judged for them. I am very changed from all my life experiences. I wished I were who I am now at 20. I know what I could had done with my life and I could have gone a long way. But that is history now, so what can I do with my life now to make this a better world. Question, does that mans actions indicate he has changed from what he tells you about his past? Watch him very closely for – “tells” what are his priorities and what is his life walk now? As Dr. Simon says “Its all about character.” If you don’t see it Puddle is right “Run like hell.” This is and I repeat a tactic so to speak to get a CD to not want to be around me, I just start to talk about God or play religious tapes. I find it doesn’t get them angry I rejected them, its more about them in their own world they think they rejected me. Then they nicely go on their way. I’m sorry I am laughing now. To have to think of all these insane things to deal with another person, what insanity, but then it is what it is.
Tori, what is nice about here is you can open up and get real good input, take it or leave it, good support and a life jacket too, so its good that you have a place to speak your mind before losing your heart. And yes, these characters seem to be everywhere. Hugs and blessings.
Thanks BTOV for your balanced view on this new guy. I know at this time in my life anyone who comes into it will have their share of baggage and scars. Although I have to say it was that kind of thinking that got me involved with my ex…allbeit I wasn’t armed with the knowledge I have now and the love bombing was intense. This is quite different and I am thinking he’s a little lonely himself and thought he might be more engaging and see what happens. Although he probably should have thought it out more me thinks! It’s funny he’s not at all the type I would go for really and that’s what everyone has told me go for the opposite and yet…yeah he could well be a victim himself but boy oh boy would I take that chance…don’t think so! We all know these CD’s have a radar that says… bingo there’s one, a vulnerable, nice person. So I’ve got that in mind too! It’s just sort of weird that on a day I was thinking about whether or not I’d be alone for the rest of my life…my ex wants to be friends again and this guy is just there! Now if I was a an new agey I’d be thinking what is the universe telling me right now! Ha ha! Probably RUN AWAY and keep doing your own thing! I won’t judge this fellow too harshly but I think keeping him at arms length is probably the best bet. I feel this little episode along with not being able to revisit my old town is one that says I am in no way ready to go down that road yet. Hugs to you all for your supports and blessings. xx
Tori, I think Puddle answered you correctly, your just not ready, I have had the same experience and that is indication to back off and heal some more. I would put as much distance between the X and you as possible. I want to dream and believe its not what it is. Trust your gut and I think these gals here have some astute insight for us that we cant see ourselves. Just as we are able to be their eyes and senses of experience too. The other fellow, might be a nice guy but doesn’t have the gained knowledge that you have and is somewhat clumsy so to speak. Be true to yourself and be above all “you”. I would keep a physical boundary and other boundaries well defined for quite some time. If he’s any good, he’ll wait around and if not, so what, you have you and your integrity and lost nothing, not even time, it will have made you all the wiser. Take care and blessings
Thank you all! I just finished the book – Characters and did I have the biggest Aha moment. For the last 7 years I have been confronted with all of the tricks and manipulations described. It wasn’t until last year when things became physical that I thought something was wrong. The cheating, the lying, hiding, making excuses for not spending time together. Oh’ the excuses of why he wouldn’t share his bank account. The book is amazing at describing what they do, I would like to know how to deal with them. I will need to arm myself with more ammunition and we will be in this for the long haul.
Custody battles
financial decisions
split of the marriage
blah blah
Hi Lost Wife, and welcome. I hope you read all Dir.’s books and if you can, start reading all the posts on this blogs. You will also find many people refer to other reading material that is germane to your situation. If not ask, and I’m sure someone will try to give some good input. As far as the divorce be very careful and I hope he doesn’t read your entries on the net. Property division depends on how long you were married and in what state. Do not let him know or confront him with anything if you are planning on leaving.
Thank you! We already filed and he moved away…. Thank God! I however think that I should have planned my move in secret, I didn’t know he was a Narc and have learned the hard way of who he is. Since I don’t fall for his falseness anymore he punishes me and the kid. I couldn’t understand why someone would do that, I thought it was he was mad to loose me (ha) and his anger towards me was because he loves too much (although he cheated the whole time). Now I know that he was just trying to manipulate me to back down, crazy to look at it this way. Manipulation by cheating and financial strangulation. We are now in the divorce and things are worse, hence my comment about planning. For all women who plan to divorce a narc, I would say – don’t do it until you have at least a year of savings and money for a lawyer. Be methodical and precise otherwise he will do everything in his power to outsmart you.
Yes, that is true. But there are still ways not to react and try to save on your end. I feel for you, I have been there and its not over. On the run now, hope you keep posting, everyone is very supportive and have a tremendous amount of knowledge they will willingly share. This truly is a safe place here with Dr. Simons oversight.
Great article. The most difficult thing for me is that my vindictive narcissisic ex husband has convinced my step children and their mother that I am crazy and too unstable for them to have contact with me. I finally got brave enough to divorce him when I became sick of him not working, spending all the money I made on himself instead of bills, and cheating. He would say I was crazy everytime I tried to talk about these issues. And when I filed for divorce he started his smear campaign to anyone who would listen that I was a crazy until a year passed before our divorce was finalized. As a result of his lies the step daughters that I love will not speak to me. It is heartbreaking but I know I have to let them go, although I hope that one day they will remember that I was never the person he portrayed me to be and contact me. So I will respect their feelings and move forward with my life.
That kind of thing’s always saddening(except to those, who aren’t “human”). Your post conveys how strong you’ve managed to find the way to handle it, though, which is great!
How to start? I am the spouse of a man who’s ex you have perfectly described: “…these personality types don’t take the notion of “losing” very easily. For narcissists, it’s too big an insult to their monumental and pathological pride to think that someone they viewed as not only their possession but also their “extension” has claimed their own life. And for the aggressive personalities, the thought of someone else “winning” and therefore sabotaging their endless quest for domination is simply abhorrent. So when you leave one of these impaired characters, you can almost always expect that there will be some kind of hell to pay.”
Pay we have. She is an organizer for a Divorce Separated Support Group in Raleigh and thinks we don’t know about the lies she posts there, or she just doesn’t care. The worst part is that she is also alienating his adult children with her vitriol. So frustrating!
I read these stories and finally I feel like I’m not alone anymore. I’ve been split from my ex for the last 9 years, had 2 kids by him and in the process have re-married a wonderful man that loves my 2 kids and we share another child. I still sometimes think – that maybe it was me – maybe it was my fault. The lies from the very beginning about owning property, having money, etc. Then finding out it was all a lie, the cheating, verbal and mental abuse. When I had just had our first child – we were evicted out of our property as he had not been paying rent – when I went to look for him at work – they informed me he hadn’t worked there for months. It all just carried on and on until I said – enough. The poor women after me also went through the same – ended up in hospital, but he told everyone it was her. Had another 2 kids with her as well. I’m constantly fighting with him – we share custody over the kids. So he’s constantly there and I can’t get rid of him. I feel like his dragging my whole life down. Now he’s moved in with another women and my first instinct is to tell her to be careful – I just don’t know. I don’t know how to deal with him – it’s like he honestly believes his own lies. How do I deal with him – how do I protect my kids from him – as he’s constantly lying to them as well.
Lilly,
I’d try to find a good family therapist because these are family issues now, with you and the kids being involved.
If he is affecting the kids’ emotional health and well being you could possibly have his visitation changed to supervised visitation, but of course that takes lots of money, effort, time and many times you come out losing anyway. I think counseling would be a good start. You will all have tools on how to heal with the jerk.
As far as the new wife, that’s not your problem. You’ve got enough of your own stuff to deal with. And she’ll stick up for him, resent you, then they will both take it out on your kids during visitation. I would not touch that one. Poor girl.
Just kick the wife out of your life if she don’t care respect you any more trying to become dominant when u see she is making you slave just get rid of her soon.
I just came across this recently when a friend forwarded me a post written by my boyfriend
who happened to mention me on social media with a link to this site. He is claiming I am character-disordered and abusive and creating a huge sob story about good and noble he is and how strong he is “having to be in the face of adversity.” Considering we are living together and were not fighting or unhappy to my knowledge I found this very surprising and upsetting. All of our mutual friends and coworker’s and my employer saw it. And people that didy know me very well or at all talked behind him and he embellished to them even further with lie after lie. I was shocked needless to say and at first questioned myself and my behaviors to be sure there was not any truth in his statements. There is not. Finding this site was just what I needed though because it didn’t take long for me to realize thy all of the things he claimed I did to him were actually things HE did to me! I am blown away reading through this site because I can identify with so much of it. I always kind of suspected he was narcissistic but never realized until now how manipulative he really is. When we do argue, everything is always my fault and generally everything is all about him and his needs. He is a very unemotional person unless he is angry or trying to “win” people over with kindness. most people saw through his post that knew me at all and some even defended my honor but it was amazing seeing how someone like that would try to use such a helpful tool to paint an ugly picture of someone else publicly! I’ve could never imagine defaming him on his social media despite how I feel about his behavior toward me! It certainly was eye-opening to his real character.’Regardless thank you for having this site. It is giving me peace of mind to read it as I move forward and is a great resource for people
I constantly get blamed for everyone’s problems, my ex husband and I broke up 8 years ago, we went though a lot he had a rare illness, I took care of him, his family was anything but helpful. The whole situation was awful for everyone. He dumped me and moved on with in weeks. He’s now remarried and I contacted him to tell him about our shared 14 year old dog having to o be put down.He immediatley brought up every wrong thing I’d ever said or did, blamed the whole demise of the marriage on me. I ruined everything, the business, etc. I kept telling him we all made mistakes him me, his family friends. It’s not solely my fault. All he did was attack me and brought up shit that happened 10 years ago. I never fought with him in court about anything, I actually walked away with very little. I moved away and started over as it was hard watching him move on so quick and has said I was just running from my problems and everyone knows it’s my fault. How can someone that says they are happy and moved on still harbour such hate for me. I thought after all this time we could have a conversation see how each other doing in life. I’m hurt and it sounds like he’s still sitting around bashing me.
J
So you have close ones blaming you for everything? How does it feel to have such power that you can control one’s life? (sarcasm) Don’t ever believe you are the cause of everyone’s problems.
It sounds like to me you have moved on nicely. We have to reach a point where we believe in ourselves and not listen to other’s critical judgments about how we live our life.
Xs tend to harbor hate. I’m trying to divorce, going through litigation hell, and my STBX hates me. He’s the one that’s done a tremendous amount of financial and emotional damage, yet he for some reason blames me. I don’t care what he says. I know who I am and what I’ve done. His words are meaningless to me.
Aren’t you glad you cut contact with the X for so long? See what happens when you think they are “normal” and try to have a conversation. Geez. Same ole same ole. I’m sorry you feel hurt. Somehow, I’m no longer hurt by those words – because I know what a creep’s mouth they come from. Don’t doubt yourself because of his tongue. Believe who you are. His words are nothing. You hang in there J.
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Go Away. You’re on the WRONG forum.
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I ordered a love spells from dr.mac@yahoo. com because my man was acting like he didn’t want to be with me anymore and spending less time with me, this led to broke up and i ask Dr.Mack to make my Man love me again which he did and in the next 24hours after the service of Dr.mack, my man came to my house to beg for forgiveness and ask me to accept him back. “Everything happened so fast.
I live in india and have bern through the hell caused by a psycho girl. She managed to defame me to the last extent. And even tried hurting my relatives.
Its becoming really difficult to hold my ground up and decide what to do.
Rafi,
Just take a right and just position, and hold your ground. Rest will fall in place around you, and she obviously will vanish well before it ends.
It will help to breath-in and breath-out exercise few million times, preferably at slower meditation rate.
Good Article However it is difficult to ignore a narc when they make up such horrible lies that you have to legally defend yourself. When the protection order is thrown in your face when she takes your kids through the legal loopholes of “no proof needed”
I have spent upwards of 8k just trying to survive the onslaught of accusations while everyone thinks she is an innocent angel I sit in disbelief of my ex who was my most trusted and best friend for 17 years. I’ve not seen the kids in 2 years because she somehow has them convinced I am some monster which I do not understand they know better. Not one of them has spoken up to say none of it is true my oldest seems to be even helping, Its bad enough fighting lies of the ex now they are double-teaming me no wonder no one believes me. She has WON everything house, land, assets, kids now she is going after my freedom and my career just the protection order alone puts me at risk and chains me to a desk unable to advance in my career because of it.
The next round of allegations will put me out of a great career that I worked so hard to achieve. sometimes you can’t walk away when they will not let you and legally tie you.
it is easy to say focus on something else don’t think about it you are right I have become desensitized bitter and severely depressed. my finances are depleted but I can’t qualify for free anything, or afford a good attorney so it is not so easy to “not think about it” when you’ve lost everything and your freedom is on the line.
Every WIN she gets bolder more daring more outlandish and everyone believes her she is so convincing even I would doubt I am innocent, so let alone a stranger.
Billy,
The legal system does work against husband, when unscrupulous wife decides for divorce (with optional affair preceding it) and get sufficient time to plan for it, and then deliver the blow via police or court. Sometime I think it has to do with genetics, temperament and general attitude toward life. So, such women do this instinctively without really having a concrete goal in mind. So, no use in looking at her in disbelief.
Your biggest strength is your earning capability, so use it to get back on your feet. In long run you will see everything through. Avoid violating the protection order even if it is (rightfully) just for seeing kids. Pay for children, and cut it down as and when you get evidence of your wife working status. The best thing that parents can do for their children is supporting their needs just being around till they are old enough. If you are denied the right of being around, your moral/social responsibility toward their expenses in automatically reduced.
Your biggest enemy will be your own emotions (even if justified). You make one mistake in emotional outburst, and legal & police system will tighten the noose around your neck.
You are not alone. Find some man in similar situation, exchange notes, learn basics of legalese, and see it through.
Pass the wisdom along… be very careful, very very careful about the woman one plan to marry. And, don’t have children at least 3-4 years after marriage. The woman that knows how to use the system, is most lethal person. One doesn’t want that kind of person as friend or relative, forget about marrying her and creating joint account or buying joint assets.
Billy, AndyD,
Billy, Everything AndyD says is true. Woman get giant passes in the courtroom, many justified and many CD woman are vicious and use the system to get even and malign the X husband in every way possible.
My neighbor down the street went through one of these kind of divorces. The courts gave her half of everything including her cleaning out the house and leaving him only the bed and a sofa. She took every grocery item, dishes, everything and left him the two dogs she bought.
She even tried the RO but failed as she fabricated part of the complaint and she lost. When I talked with him he thought she was going through a midlife crises until I gave him Dr. Simons books: In Sheeps Clothing and Character Disturbance.
Billy, You are not alone in this. The rate of men being the victims of CD wives is way under reported and the statistics are skewed. We had several men who came to the Womens Center who were abused by the wife. Men tend not to tell anyone or report the abuse out of shame and the fear of being ostracized along with many other reasons.
I would encourage you to keep posting and reading the blog, obtains Dr. SImons books and educate yourself. I you keep posting I can direct you to some other books and resources too. You have a great ally in AndyD who is level headed and wise in his observations and in what to do, we also have another male poster Joey who will be more than glad to give you advice and share their experience.
I encourage you to keep posting and sharing, you will find knowledge is power and will help you to feel not so vulnerable and in the dark. The people on the blog will also support you and share their knowledge and experiences, you are not alone in this.
Take care and don’t let her destroy you too. By reaching out on this blog you will have allies that will support you through the process. Know you are always welcome here.
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Hi there. I’ve been dealing with everything listed above for almost a decade. I have lost everything. I have no means to support myself. I’ve been emotionally, financially and judicially abused. My ex is a former lawyer with high assets. I have every bit of proof I need, all in black-and-white, but I have no more money for a lawyer. Funny, someone above mentioned that time is on your side. I spent every last dime on lawyers, but my ex was too conniving. It was much too difficult to nail down proof. So decade later, I have a judge that sees right through him and all the proof I need, but no money for a lawyer. I’m not sure if I should even pursue this but does anybody know anyone in the state of Connecticut? Thanks!!
mpm2018,
I would encourage you to keep posting on the blog. Lucy, a regular poster was married to a lawyer too. She also works in the legal system and I am sure will chime in when she is able too.
I do know many states laws are different, you may also be beyond the statute of limitations.
Maybe in the meantime you could tell us a little more about your situation.
Thank you and welcome
Thank you so much for your reply. My ex is no longer practicing, but he is a fairly public figure. There really is no easy way for me to say this in a couple paragraphs. However, I am definitely not outside the statute of limitations, but I do need to find somebody soon. Part of what happened was that we had a six-year divorce judgment. That judgment would have ended this year. About 2 1/2 years ago, after my ex refused to follow the order for an entire year, I had my back up against a wall and was coerced into signing away everything. I went almost 3 years with two children, no career, no alimony and child support. My ex had a huge earning potential and plenty of assets. he literally walked away from everything. But not only that, he had me sign away things that no one would sign away unless they were being coerced severely. The problem was that my ex was lying and my attorney was listening to him and not me. Only recently do I have absolute proof of those lies that led me to sign away everything. In total I probably lost close to $1 million. I can’t even eat at the moment. My ex continues to live an extremely lavish lifestyle. Even since child-support was reinstated a year ago, he has already skipped two months! If I ask him to please pay, he turns around and tells me I’ll him money and that he will file motions against me if I don’t pay him. I essentially can’t even ask him to follow the order or he will begin harassing and threatening me. We were in the same courthouse for about eight years. He was found in contempt this year for the very first time ever. I do believe that’s because we changed to a bigger courthouse, which is a more aggressive, and much more able to handle a case like this. During this contempt hearing, is when all of the proof came out; The proof I would need to re-open this and get what I lost. Our current judge saw right through him so I can’t imagine she won’t make this very easy. I just can’t do it alone. I do believe that if I can find the right attorney who will help me, this won’t be too difficult. The key here is to find an attorney who understands the narcissistic personality disorder. My last couple attorneys did not understand this personality disorder whatsoever, which is largely why I am in this position. Therefore, it is essential that I find an attorney who understands this personality disorder, and I must find somebody fast.
mpm2018,
Good attorneys are hard to come by. Good honest one that can be trusted are rarity.
Best policy is to build some basic knowledge in legal process, which I hope you would have figured out by now, and then use lawyers as suited clerk who is slightly more intelligent than a clerk at register office. An advance type of clerk who can not only file the papers in time, but also can read and talk intelligently the content once in a blue moon.
You need to do the hard work. Document everything, build a story, find evidence that corroborate parts of the story. The better story you write, you can manage with less expensive lawyer to achieve same results. The better evidence you have, you increase chances of winning.
If you want even go pro se for simpler things. Court does factor it and grants you some leeway, but only small leeway. But, it appears your case will be complex one… questioning the signed contract etc. In case it helps, you probably need to show that signed contract is null and void, or that signed contract is no longer a valid contract because circumstances have changed significantly so underlying assumptions (stated or unstated) in the contract are broken.
I don’t think your lawyer will understand NPD, and even if someone agrees with you, he probably is doing that just to get business. You should instead build your story, and then find all corroborating evidence, and only then approach a lawyer.
Stick to written communication with your ex-husband… email etc. Record conversations, if you must talk.
Thank you Andy! I have all of the evidence and in fact the new judge is the one who dug everything up during our last content. So she, not only knows that he lied during our last agreements, she said it in the transcript. I’ve been waiting for a decade to have the proof in black-and-white and I have that plus a judge Who uncovered it. I just need to know what kind a motion to file to get this re-opened and I was thinking fraud. But I’ve been down that road, And although he definitely committed fraud, I tend to think that’s not the best motion to file. Although I didn’t know what other options I had and although he definitely committed fraud, I tend to think that’s not the best motion to file. Although I didn’t know what other options I had until now. I really appreciate your input!! I’m going to look into this, but when you say null & void, I completely agree with you. Would you happen to know what type of motion that would be? Also, when you say an attorney/clerk, are these mostly people who work at the courthouse? I tend to think with the new judge I would probably be better off on my own. There is not any attorney I’ve ever had that can seamlessly tell my story, mainly because it’s so diluted and confusing. No one is going to learn this story to the degree that I know it. On the other hand, I simply don’t know how to write the motions or which kind to write. thank you again so much!!!
Apologies to others. Following post has nothing to do with topic of blog, and it is just for Mpm2018.
Mpm2018,
With attorney as suited clerk, I meant simply:
– A clerk at register office will take paper and file them
– A attorney at court will take paper and file them, also he will also verbally state part of those papers in court
The real thing comes from you, i.e. the papers, i.e. your written story and your evidences. It will help you a lot, if you first chronologically write all events, and then filter them out to 9-10 points that are relevant to your case. First break everything into small pieces, sort by date, and finally select the most relevant ones.
I don’t know about motions, that you’ll have to check with lawyers.
But, it seems you may have a case of perjury, if your ex-husband lied on oath, and that specific lie was one of the key factor for the judgement, that went in his favour due to that particular lie. Then, it amounts to perjury. With perjury, your ex- will face full wrath of court… judges or anyone get very peeved when a liar manages to manipulate the them.
My advice will be to use attorney, unless you have no money and cannot find one pro bono.
And, if your story is confusing, then write it down chronologically. One small paragraph per date. Then, you can remove extraneous details.
So excuse to put head gear on……. abuse, manipulation, ect, timing on how where where, mj underage just a fan, female that beats on children the minute she left alone. Just to see there MOTHER pissed.
mpm2018,
First off, know you’re not alone. Your horror story is my horror story, although mine is over now.
Andy gave you good advice to do all the prep work before you approach the lawyer. This will save you lots of money.
Your X will do all he can to make it impossible financially to continue to fight him, as he’s already done.
So are you saying you have new evidence to prove your old case post judgment? There are motions one can file to reopen a case – I can’t think of the name of the motion at the moment, but I have seen it done.
The question becomes have you got the financial means to continue to have a court battle with this man?
Two of my lawyers questioned my mental health while I was going through the ugly divorce and being badgered by the X, watching my finances deplete (much of it to the lawyer). Very high stress situation. Are you up for that task again? Do you have no choice but to continue the court battle and incurring legal fees?
I ran out of money and lost much more than my fair share. I totally understand.
Not only was the money situation damaging, but the toll on my health and well being was enormous. I couldn’t handle it anymore. Can you? Can your mind, body, spirit and pocketbook continue to fight this man? You must know, he won’t give up.
If you can get a good attorney who want milk you dry and get a speedy outcome, that would be perfect, get the outcome you deserve so you can live a life.
Learn all you can about the CD tactics so much so that you see it when it hits you, so you’ll be prepared.
I am feeling for you. It’s tough to keep up the fight, but you seem to be doing it.
Take care of yourself the best you can.
Hi Lucy!!!
Thank you also so much for such a kind reply! I have battled with every single thing you mentioned for the last six months. Eve I have battled with every single thing you mentioned for the last year. Ever since we signed our last agreement, I knew I had to do something, but I didn’t know if it was worth it emotionally or mentally. You are absolutely right, my ex will never give up. On one hand, I have lost everything because he simply ran circles around the attorneys and our former judge. Even though everyone saw through him, for whatever reason, nobody would stand up to him. Nobody would give him consequences and when they did, he would find a way to delay everything so long and eventually get out of the consequences. I honestly don’t feel an attorney would benefit me other than writing the motions at this point. Our new judge did more in terms of nailing my ex, in two months, then our former judge did in a decade. So to answer your question, I could never continue down the path that I was on for the past decade. I lost everything and that included decline in my emotional and physical health. Contrary to that, I have never felt so certain about anything in my case until recently. I truly believe if I bring this case before this new judge, she will handle this effectively and efficiently. She Saul right through my ex and she called him out on everything, it was like nothing I’ve ever seen. She said out right that he lied about his finances for years. She had all the documentation in black-and-white. She was the first person to ever order all of this documentation to be turned over to her. When I tell you the attorneys and former judge were useless, I am not saying that late she said out right that he lied about his finances for years. She had all the documentation in black-and-white. She was the first person to ever order all of this documentation to be turned over to her. When I tell you the attorneys and former judge were useless, I am not saying that lightly!
So to wrap my points up, I’m struggling with the decision of addressing this once and for all with a new judge that I feel already has a very good grasp on what’s happening… Or forget it and move on. So to wrap my points up, I’m struggling with the decision of addressing this once and for all with a new judge that I feel already has a very good grasp on what’s happening… Or forget fighting my ex. The downfall is that the minute I begin filing anything, my ex will turn on me like a pitbull. But he will not only turn on me, he will put the kids right smack in the middle. Our daily lives will become a nightmare. But I feel if I do decide to file anything, I would like to address His patterns of bullying, emotional abuse, financial abuse, and abuse of the court system, immediately. The only way I could get through this emotionally is if I nip that in the bud right up front.
The other portion to this is that my former attorney who initiated me losing everything, Acted in such complete negligence that I’m contemplating a lawsuit against him. Part of me feels like perhaps I should go after the attorney and forget my ex. But right now I am simply weighing all the pros and cons, which is why I came to this for acted in such complete negligence that I’m contemplating a lawsuit against him. Part of me feels like perhaps I should go after the attorney and forget my ex. But right now I am simply weighing all the pros and cons, which is why I came to this forum. Not only could I use the support System, but I’m also looking for input from people who understand where I’m coming from. So once again I think you and everyone who has taken their time to comment on my post. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it !!!!!
mpm2018
Laws are differ depending on the state or country you live in. AndyD, I believe resides in England and their laws differ. I know you will get solid and rational input from both AndyD and Lucy, both have past experience.
Legal battles can go on for years. I fought a case Pro-se against my employer for sexual assault in federal court, it took 8 years of my life and it would had been ongoing. Although the government admitted the assault the DOJ argued statues of limitations citing numerous other cases blurring the original presented evidence and then stating the law provided no legal remedy.
Again depending on the state you are living in the laws vary. Going Pro-se can is extremely time consuming, your X being an attorney knows all the tactics of creating havoc in the system, continual delays and know doubt will present bogus allegations against you.
Again, knowing little about your case it is hard to know where to begin to give you guidance. Do you have all the prior documents in order, copies of all orders, copies of transcripts, copies of all new evidence you want to present. In the end even if you win, I see your X creating a scenario where he will have rights to appeal the decision to the jurisdiction of the State Appellate Court. If he is a pit bull, he will never let it go.
Going Pro-se, the courts should hold you to a lesser standard and allow you leeway in presenting your case. If the courts rule in your favor they may allow for more fair and equitable settlement because of the children, again he can appeal the decision.
There are many different terminologies of pleadings in a divorce case and is important you use the proper one. There will also be reams of paperwork past and present to be presented and all must be keep in a respective order. Its non-stop paperwork and your X will keep you buried in redundant and unnecessary filings not to include constantly filing contempt complaints against you. It will be a quagmire of unending litigation.
Question to you, can you physically, emotionally and mentally deal with this and at the same time take care of all your personal obligations, your children and yourself, at the same time be in a legal and emotional battle?
The CD’s goal is to wear you down and to obliterate you emotionally, spiritually, physically and exhaust whatever finances you do have. If the X is the CD individual you claim he is he will enjoy going back to court with you, it will be a game and he will continually look for ways to destroy you.
Each state has disciplinary boards to file complaints against an attorney.
You should be able to google where to file in your state, there are also statues of limitations too. Keep in mind the burden of proof is on you.
Just some things to think about.
Mpm2018,
First, if you decide to pursue, and if you choose to go with an attorney, talk frankly with one and ask if they’d seek to be paid by the X, only, as you have run out of funds. If they know the X has money, and they think they can be successful in your case, maybe they’d do it that way. Also, maybe they’d go after your X attorney to recoup funds through malpractice. But keep in mind most local attorneys won’t sue a “brother”.
As far as the title of a motion to reopen a case, it could be
Motion to Set Aside Judgment (or Settlement Agreement) and Reopen Case and Set for Rehearing.
You can research motions requirements in your state. There should be a guide to what is expected to be included in a motion. Lawyers follow guideline and pro-se litigants are expected to follow them as well, although, depending on the judge, there can be some leeway there.
Did new evidence come to light, or is your claim that you were badgered into signing agreement?
This new judge sounds like you ticket to success.
If you can’t get an attorney that you can afford or one that will work free (and to recoup hopefully from the X), really, you’ve got all the facts of the case. If you’ve got computer skills, language skills, ability to do some research, and time, you could represent yourself if that’s your only option.
You’ll have to learn how to ask questions in court, not to pose leading questions, research how to ask a question that won’t be objected to.
I couldn’t pursue my case any longer. My attorney fees had put me in a bad financial way, ($75,000 fees). And that was even before the divorce issues, it was mostly due our home he was living in and degrading, among other things . . . . .
Anyway, the clencher for me was I was already in tremendous debt due to the court system, and had I “won”, he would surely appeal the decision, which would cost me another $10,000, then wait for the appeal to run its course, could be up to three years in my district, then if I lost, it would mean a rehearing of the entire case. Meanwhile, attorney fees continued to rack up every time the shit bag would file something.
I had to give up. Lost a lot.
You’ve got a lot to think about, but it sounds like this new judge just may work out in your way.
Lucky and Mary
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I’m currently dealing with my soon to be exwife’s tyrades because she now realizes that I’m going to finally go through with the divorce proceedings. Unfortunatly, she found someone who is just as narcisistic and controlling as she is. Given that she is diabetic, she tends to bruise easily. On more than one occasion she threatened to release photos of her diabetic bruises if I ever left or attempted to divorce her. Now that I’m making it happen, she has begun showing other people these bruises, and both of them are busy making up lies. They even tried having me arrested for harrasement, and she asked me if I could make some food for her!! Well, lesson learned here, and getting ready for the long road again. But thankfully, people know how these two are. Most of them just shake their heads, roll their eyes, and walk off.
Joe,
I am glad you felt comfortable to post on this blog. For me your post is rather discombobulated and I can understand why. Just for beginners I would encourage to read as much as you can on this blog, watch Dr.s Simons You tubes, listen to his radio program and read all of his books to include those in the field Dr. Simon has worked with.
I am not talking about promoting a resource for the sake of monetary gain, instead I am suggesting as the knowledge you will glean from sources that truly care about you and your healing. I would encourage you to keep posting and asking questions
I would also highly suggest if you are dealing with individuals that have Disordered Characters of this magnitude to go NC, meaning no contact. Just know anything and everything is posible with these ones and your protection in all areas is of the utmost importance.
I hope this little bit has helped and I am praying for you.
Everything I read here resonates with what I am presently going through. My girlfriend breaks up with me, time and time again, but as soon as I say I’m okay with the breakup, then the backlash comes. Then she treatens to have me charged for rape, this, when we are not even intimate. Then comes the threats, the wanting to get even, the swearing, the wanting to make my life a living hell. I’ve tried counselling but she simply wont go. So, I tolerate the situation. I feel so trapped.
Dear Trapped,
Plan and bolt.
Do you know that depending upon the country, a rape charge will fetch you somewhere between a month to a year of jail time. And that is just based on allegation. Now, as the credibility of allegation goes up, expect much longer jail time. In worst case, expect full 10+ years in jail.
Sounds like your girlfriend has some mental problem. Take my advise, plan a quiet escape. Don’t try to be a white knight with someone who threatens false rape charges.
If a person thinks about something 3 times, he will state it at least once. If a person states something 3 times, he will do it at least once.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.
My suggestion will be to do following:
– Start collecting bit of evidence. Record everything.
– Plan a pretext to get physically separated from her, e.g. a business travel to another city will do.
– Break up and DO NOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR HER
And, yes, expect her to file rape charges. Pray that your evidence and provable physical separate helps you in getting early bail. This is best you can probably hope for as a punishment for ignoring flashing red warning signs.
Trapped,
AndyD, has laid it on the line as the light of day. One thing I would also encourage and that is if you are still talking with her is to record her when she threatens you with her lies. These days cell phones can do many things and in a circumstance like yours may be your ace in the hole.
Above all, do what AndyD suggested. Men are in are far more vunerable position complared to women in cases like these. Someone like this has severe CD issues and most likely mental health issues also.
Heed the warnings and advice you are given here, the writing is on the wall, don’t dig a deeper hole caring for someone who dosn’t give a hoot about you. Get as much distance as you can without interacting with this person.
I hope for the best for you and if you feel the need to keep posting and need reasurance, support, anything, please feel free to post and know you are welcome. AndyD, has a lot of experience and is wise in his responses.
My husband left me for his ex wife, This was just 2 years of our marriage. The most painful thing as that I was pregnant with our second baby.
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last week my husband has presented me with divorce papers, It was the greatest shock of my life. I almost lost my life to alcohol… I lost my job, I got sick and was admitted into the hospital emergency ward, Two days later when I opened my eyes I saw my mom and my husband beside me holding my hands, I was shocked again and confused to see my husband.
Then he knelt down and apologized that my bestfriend told a lie that I was cheating on him, He was advised to divorce me so they can get married. I didn’t understand, until I was discharged. My mom told me later that night how she went looking for help at this web place called (love solution temple. c o m) that did a spell to make my husband open up the truth and make him remorseful to come apologized. It is left for me to forgive and accept him back, he has been calling my phone for days, sending alot of messages.
I need the public opinion what should I do now?
Kesha,
You are asking for an opinion.
You were admitted to the hospital for good reason. Your drinking and admittance was something in the making for a long time.
Really, all of a sudden your husband admits he was lied to by your best friend and now he sees the truth.
Please, these hoaxes of con artists and the websites you promote on a truly healthy blog which promotes knowledge and healing is rather base.
You are welcomed to post and to honestly present your circumstances to find healing. I am concerned with the gullible who will want to do and try anything and you know that too. Dr. Simon’s blog, articles, youtubes and teachings are about truth not hocus pocus.
I will pray for you and your circumstances…..
Dear Kesha,
This is just my opinion, but the answers you seek, can only be answered, by the One Who made you darling:) I’ll assist you, by means of prayer, knowing that all the answers are already with you.
Now, can we wait patiently if no immediate response is given? Will we even like the answer we get? Maybe not, and that’s ok too. God has a plan for your healing, and only He knows what that is going to look like.
My heart goes out to you. You are not alone.
my ex husband left me yesterday and I need him back post comments
ANY kind of love spell that takes away, or hinders, the free will of a fellow human being, is NON-LOVING.
Do not be ashamed of wanting to participate in such activities, as Jesus knows your pain. It is that very pain, that fallen angels use to allure helpless victims into practicing such spells.
With the intention of the greatest good for all, I plea with all, to not practice love, or any spells, for that matter. It’s just too dangerous, as we recognize that spells, just like prayer, is real.
Choose the HIGHEST form of love, by refraining from taking away the free will of another.
Thank you:)
Faustina,
I agree with most of what you said or may in fact may be reading it wrong and apologize if so.
Love can suffocate, enable, cover up and lie for and do almost and anything for that person whom they love, instead of true, honest, unselfish love, the gut wrenching love that allows one to love another enough to set the loved one free, free to experience the pain and suffering which one needs to go through in order to come to the knowledge of truth, to endure and watch the unbearable pain the loved one must experience in order to be truly free. Indeed, this is a trial for both individuals.
I agree, “Choose the HIGHEST form of love, refraining from taking away the free will of another.” I had to do this and it was the most difficult thing I have ever had to do in my life. Thank you for your comment and hope you add to future conversations on this blog. 🙂
by Grace
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Peace and good will to All
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My husband’s ex is my worst nightmare. I have MS and am on various meds to ease the symptoms of my disease. She is a pharmacy tech, thus has access to the federal database listing meds I take and doctors who prescribe. Last year she forged a narcotic script in my name. If my doctor had not believed me, I would have been taken to jail and faced a legal battle. The pharmacy chain closed within days of her ‘stunt.’ No one else, but my husband, has access to the name of my physicians or my med lists. We reported her nefarious actions to the law, but they won’t do anything, either. I live in fear. Until one of us dies, I will be constantly looking over my shoulder wondering what’s coming next. I have never done anything to this woman. Her vindictiveness is ruining my health and threatening my freedom. How can any one of us protect ourselves when the law tends to believe their lies? It’s not fair to be unjustly targeted by these immature narcissists!
Denise,
Sorry you’re having to deal with this. They love to terrorize people. They prey on the human, natural fear of being persecuted.
Good for you for reporting it to the police. Glad your doctor believed you. Although, was the script from his pad/office? Not sure how it works now that things are electronic. I would imagine there is an electronic trail to trace it back, so can’t imagine how they could pin it on you.
Did you file a written police report? The reason I ask is, in my experience, it is important for you to document everything. I would imagine that there is also some licensing board or some other entity that you could approach with your concern. That is a serious violation. If it were me I would ask a pharmacist, your doctor, the state board, etc…about who else/how to report it. This helps on two fronts: it helps you to feel empowered (rather than powerless and fearful) and it serves as a paper/document trail (take detailed notes/and get as much as you can in writing from authorities). If and/or when she does this or something else again, you will have done your homework, have resources, and documentation and her effort will fall flat and hopefully bite her instead. In my experience so far, this has worked very well. Often, it blows up in their face and once they realize you fight back (don’t warn/threaten them), they find someone else to terrorize.
I understand the frustration, pain, anger, helplessness, etc.. that you may be feeling. As you say, it’s not fair to be unjustly targeted by them. They suck the life force out of you if you let them. It does take time and energy to do the work to protect yourself and it stinks, because had she not done this you could be using that energy for healing, enjoying life.
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I’ve been gone from this site for quite a while, a lot has happened, but it still is the best source to go to for advice with dealing with troubled people.
This article is helpful in that I just broke up with a man recently who has taken to Facebook to describe in detail issues of a personal nature of our relationship.
My first reaction was to not respond and “defend” myself. I’ve learned through the years of reading Dr. Simon’s articles that “defending” oneself really is a time-wasting, useless endeavor. People who know me know my character. People who don’t, well, they can think what they will. I have no control nor personal investment in people who don’t know me nor I know them.
I’m going to not respond on Facebook to the “article” he wrote. It was quite long. He showed his colors. But, if he mentions my young grandchild again, he will hear from me. It’s highly appropriate to air grievances to FB friends about a child.
I have learned so much from years of reading the books and articles of Dr. Simon and those lessons have stuck with me and serviced me well.
Lucy
Lucy,
I think it wise you decided not to respond to this person, more importantly you understand you don’t have to defend yourself to others. When we are put in position of having to defend ourselves we need to observe and evaluate why we are feeling this way. Considering all the time you have been on this blog and what Dr. Simon has taught us we should be well aware of who and what we are dealing with.
Many times it takes time for a charactered disordered person to reveal their true colors, that is why it is so important to apply all that we have learned from this blog when dealing with people.
As far as Facebook is concerned I have nothing do with social media. I think it wise not to respond in any way with this person, like before, “Cut All Ties.” Remember No Contact, I would go that route as it does not matter what you say or think. This person is using your grandchild to suck you into playing his game, don’t fall for it. In the relationship this man knew how much you loved your grandchild and as usual, the character disordered person he is, he was jealous of your grandchild and is using this child to draw you into his game and hurt you.
Remember, the Charactered Disordered count on your soft spots and then target them to hurt you. Lucy, you don’t have to defend your grandchild just like you eloquently put it “People who know me know my character. People who don’t, well, they can think what they will. I have no control nor personal investment in people who don’t know me nor I know them.” This applies the same to your grandchild.
I would ignore and unfriend this person immediately. Pick up the pieces and absorb this as a learning experience.
Its so nice to hear from you and knowing you, the wonderful person you are and your character this will hold true to all the others who know you.
BTOV.
Thanks again for your spot on advice. You’re right. No contact is the best way to go.
This is a new year. I’m going to try to make the changes I need to to make sure this does not happen yet again. My impulsiveness need to be paid attention to so that I don’t get in situations as I did. That’s what I’m going to work on this year. It was so good to hear from you. I am now enjoying just living with myself by myself – finally. And I like it.
Lucy,
Thank you for the kind compliment. I have so many things I need to work on within myself too.
Welcome back, Lucy. Sorry it’s under these circumstances. Sounds like you have this well in hand. Amazing he feels the need to broadcast issues between the two of you to FB friends. (punish you) Yes, he showed you who he is.
Curious if looking back now there were red flags that were new to you, so didn’t recognize as flags. We learn so much from one another and it’s helpful to hear others experiences and learn from them. I give you so much credit for getting back out there.
Healing,
I saw Red Flags and was observing them but hadn’t taken appropriate action or talked through the issues. This year I’ve resolved to take on the difficult conversations. It sure would have saved me a lot of trouble.
Plus, I think the fact that I thought I really liked this guy that I could deal with these Red Flag issues.
After the First Red Flag, I made notes in my calendar about what had happened so I couldn’t get gaslighted (been there). I saw how his versions morphed.
I was so taken by him at the beginning, really did like his personality, but there were still Red Flags regarding depression and work history, but I was so drawn physically by him – very attracted to him and he was so sexy. I haven’t felt that in years.
He wanted to move in with me and I stupidly agreed. It went way too fast. I thought Oh My Gosh what have I done! Anyway, I took a chance on love and it failed miserably. Lessons learned.
Lucy,
That’s understandable. There’s a huge learning curve with these folks as they come in many flavors.
Been down a similar rabbit hole. Interestingly, the biggest common denominator I could find with mine was that they wanted to move quickly. One within 3 months was talking marriage and moving in. Thankfully other large waving red flags prompted me to tap the brakes. He was an alcoholic and was looking for a mommy that he could boss around, not a partner. It’s an easy trap to fall in when you really want a relationship with someone and they know it!
Good for you, taking the lessons and moving on.
Lucy,
What have you done? You loved again and learned even more, there is nothing wrong with this. Whats important is that you were able to see all that was wrong and began to catalogue the disordered behavior of this person.
OK, you gave of yourself and learned more of what you need to work on within yourself. I say this in a kind manner because I have been there done that and beat myself up over it. At least this time you had very little invested in this relationship. When we are able to look within ourselves we can take all the ruts and cracks in the road of life and use them to grow ourselves.
Take this experience and use it to soar to greater heights and I know you can.
I found that in finding that special person, it is not the physical attraction or outside appearance it is the content of what is in that person heart. It took me a long time to find that special person and yes I stumbled and fell many times.
I know in time you will find that special person who will complement you in your character, as it is really as Dr. Simon continually repeats “Character, Character, Character.
I am laughing at myself now, it’s kind of like I was just told “KISS” yup, that’s me, Keep it Simple Stupid.
I had to laugh at this, because, its so true of me.
I know I need to get up, brush myself off and continue on the Path of Life, continually learning this lesson.
Hugs
I’m really disappointed in myself for being so impulsive. Good thing you put on the brakes.
I wasn’t even looking for a partner at the time. It just all happened fast and I feel hard like a teenager. So stupid.
Now I’m scared of men and untrusting and scared of making another bad decision. Off relationships now for a good year to get to know myself and enjoy being in my home for once by myself.
And I’m having my locks changed this week.
My 2022 mantra. STRIVE TO THRIVE
yea. we were apart for almost 3 years. I was finally laying go after she discarded me for the second time for the second guy. The only either then our child holding us together was a shared utility bill. well I no longer wanted my name on it. so when I removed my name. three days later I was arrested with child abuse, accused of pointing guns at my kids. n threatening them.
jail, 50k in lawyers. she also ran off with my 5 year old. for half a year. Red flagged me as dangerous at the school. The list goes on.
a year and a half later in still dealing with this. it’s funny the police know what she’s doing, they are doing nothing to stop her
My neighbor is a malignant narc. Pretty sure he put nails in two of my tires last week.
I used to just let him drone on and on and listen to his monologue and endless complaints. I got tired of that and stopped and started lightly pushing back, giving my opinion. He hated it. Then I distanced myself as much as I could – he lives directly across the street. He hated that too. He would do things to get my attention. He’s super hypocritical – he can do what he wants to others, break the law and justify it, but if someone else does something – he’s out for blood. He hates women and people of color.
He inserted himself in a disagreement I had with another neighbor (an alcoholic). Another bid for attention. He took the neighbors side and they proceeded to gang up. So I just distanced myself from both of them. THEY DO NOT LIKE TO BE IGNORED.
They kept doing small things to provoke and I did not take the bait.
The nails in the tires are an escalation. They’re very scary because they clearly have no morals, but they’re also smart enough to cover their tracks and abuse covertly. I’m a single, older woman and I do feel intimidated. I don’t want them to know it, but I do.
You may to put up a security camera or that RING thing at your house. It will anger him, but everything will anger him. I was married to a malignant narc, and they always have to have the last word, or at least think they do, always have to think they are winning (whatever that is). And you’re right to do not like being ignored. Maybe after a bit of time he’ll move on to a different victim.
I’d move, if possible.
Filed a police report. (Didn’t say who I suspected). The officer suggested a PPO if he continues, but that it would just escalate things, especially since I do not have proof it was him.
My other neighbor said he was planning on getting a camera and would move that up on the priority list (they are targeting the car on his side of the driveway).
That’s so true, they do seem to want to have the last word/be right/”winning”
He came back Sunday night and let the air out of one of the tires. The cap was missing.
Gonna fie a new police report.
Hopefully we get him on camera.
He loves to be aggrieved and is usually fuming about someone. Hopefully he loses interest in me because he’s moved on to a target that’s interesting in wrestling with him. Me, I’m a boring grey rock, who does not give him any attention/air.
Been in my house for 30 years. If a great deal comes up, I’ll consider it, but I’m not letting him drive me out. He’s older…maybe the Universe will help me out.
Update on the neighbors…
They have decided to weaponize the neighborhood services department of our city. I put up solar garden lights around my vehicle to discourage furthur attempts to vandalize it. So, one of them has connections in the city and decided to use him to abuse. The really aggresive one accross the street claimed my garden lights were flooding into their dining room and was also bothering other neighbors – a lie. It was a truly laughable complaint and assertion. But their aim seems to be many layered. Make my vehicle more vulnerable, as well as myself. Definitely to intimidate.
I checked with another neighbor to make sure they weren’t bothering them. He said no and it’s rediculous – that’s what he does for another city, answer complaints and issue citations.
The manager of neighborhood services, in fact, came and left a violation for my garden lights. But he knew he was doing wrong, so he didn’t follow protocol. Said to remove them. No code info, no way to resolve, no business card, only a cell phone number. When I called him to ask what code I was violating, he couldn’t give me an answer and was aggressive and attacking. He told me to remve them and I said no. I requested the information in writing, and he actually said that he was NOT putting that in writing! Guess they thought I’d just roll over. I pushed and he said if I gave him my email address, he’d email it to me. I knew it was bs, but figured I’d call his bluff and give him enough rope to hang himself. When I texted my email address, I also made it clear what I was looking for in writing. And saved that text.
He didn’t send it of course. But a month later sent me another violation – mailed it this time. Again, no documentation.
Then a chair was stolen out of my yard. I knew who it was. I filed another police report, but this time I named the neighbor and let them know that it’s escalating and he has a concealed weapons permit, has threatened me in the past and is now trying to get the city to remove the lights on my property and I don’t feel safe in my yard anymore. And that I was informed by a retired police officer to supply this information in case anything happens to me. They took it serously and documented.
The guy from the city did come out again and talked a long time with the creepy neighbor. Then he gave him something and started to take pictures of my vehicle and my perennial garden with a fountain\bird bath. He didn’t knock and he didn’t leave anything. I videotaped him, then went out and took the same pictures. Then I went in the neighborhood and took pictures of yards with garden lights and /or birdbaths.
That was about a month ago, so far he hasn’t done anything. Can’t tell if he came to his senses, someone reigned him in, or he’s still cooking up something.
Have a camera in the front window now and one in the back aimed at the car. It’s still frustrating, but knowing my rights, documenting, and pushing back have really helped to stay feeling empowered. Hopefully these jerks will realize I’m not the easy target they thought I was. I also have a new ally in the neighbors next door to the creepy, aggressive neighbor!
I
Kirk
The lawyers make a mint from a situation as yours. If you could find one that would ask for fees to be paid by the X, since she’s the one creating the trouble, that would be great and maybe stop some of her nonsense.
My lawyer should have done that but wouldn’t because she knew she wouldn’t get paid. I should have dropped her way at the beginning.
I’ve got as little contact as possible. The last contact I made was through an email, asking when I could pick up my grandson for a visit (X had guardianship at the time) and he replied with a long email first degrading me then degrading every member of my family, one by one. It was sick.
I responded simply with the question I started with, when could I pick up grandson. I’m sure it threw him into a fit! I have not had contact since.
Contact with him result in my having nightmares and actually screaming at night in my sleep, that’s how emotionally he effects me.
Eric
Glad you’ve figured out how to cope with her. You’ve won the battle. That’s a really difficult process.
I’ve dealt with this, more less involving it daughter. My ex did things. Little and big things. Like tells my daughter her hyphenated is only her last name and not both of ours. She won’t put my contact information down at the school. She goes far away out of town but doesn’t tell me. She even read flagged my mother at the school so I wouldn’t have anyone to pick up my child to help me ( illegal to do) . She tells my daughter that nothing at my house belongs to her and it’s all mine and that I’ll just take it away one day. She tells her she doesn’t have to listen to me. And my daughter keeps telling me she has three dad’s.
I can’t understand why my ex is using all these petty tactics to try n get a rise out of me.
She literally wants me gone out of our childs life. This erratic behavior came out of no where after 3 years of silence and just spending our parenting time every other week with our child.
I think the reason why she is so UN happy and wants me gone is because as time goes on. Truths start to surface. People start to see. Including the men she cheated with our us probably dating. That all the shit she talked about me is clearly not true. She needed to talk shit because in her head these men wouldn’t want a woman who left get relationship due to boredom.
I’ve done all of this and nothing has worked. Setting boundaries and being no contact has made her more and more furious. I left an abusive marriage 4 years ago when I discovered my wife was cheating on me. She was furious I caught her and never showed any form of being sorry. She even accused me of stalking her and invading her privacy because I got into her Facebook without her consent and found messages between her and the other man. She flat out told me she would destroy me and has kept her promise. She tried to get full custody of the kids ( the first year and a half I only saw them every second weekend ). She moved far away and made me do all the pick ups and drops offs and when I complained about her lack of help she told me “it doesn’t benefit me to help you. If it’s an issue then you don’t have to see the kids. I’m doing you a favor by letting you see them at all”
She obsessively would call my friends and family members from the night I left her. Suddenly trying to befriend people she never used to want anything to do with and not only spreading lies about me but using things I had told her about them in confidence to hurt them and ruin our friendships. She even reached out to my relatives overseas to try and spread lies not only about me, but my mum too. Luckily they saw through her toxic behavior.
Over the past 4 years she’s purposely dragged out divorce proceedings out. She initially wanted 70% of everything we had. I’ve so far spent about $160,000 in legal fees and have managed to get joint custody of my kids ( I had to move to the middle of nowhere and start my life from scratch to get it ). But the divorce settlement is still going.
My ex wife is what you could consider famous, I’m also relatively well known but don’t have the type of die hard fan base she has. She spread a lot of HORRIBLE lies about me on line to the point that when you google my name, they are the first thing that comes up about me. She never directly said them. But “fake accounts” on her Instagram did and she fueld the rumors but posting lots of toxic memes on her Instagram stories to fuel them. While I’ve publicly said they’re not true, a lot of people still believe them because of her actions. She has told me if I ever speak publicly about why I left her or what I went through with her ( cheating, physical assaults, emotional and financial abuse ) that she would publicly tell lies about me and everybody would believe her and not me and she’s likely right. I’m shit scared of her. When she loses it, it’s like the lights on and nobody’s home. She has no thought of consequence and is entirely apathetic.
The courts gave her a psych test that said she lacks self awareness and has traits of psychopathology. She was ordered to get psychiatric help but she refused to see amy professionals about her mental health issues and the family court is very lenient on enforcing court orders.
I’m broke now and can’t afford to fight for full custody and despite the horrible person she is. My kids still love her and I don’t want to put them through that. She has also fought to stop me from being able to work in the industry I’ve been in for a very long time ( the only way I’ve been able to earn a living ). I can’t explain this further as it will expose who both me and her are. But what I do isn’t anything shady or sex work or porn or anything that has a negative stigma around it so I don’t want anybody to come to that conclusion. I do my best to be a good moral role model for my kids.
I don’t know what to do. I’m at my breaking point. I don’t know how to get her to stop trying to ruin my life. It’s effecting me, my kids and my parents. I’ve been seeing a therapist for years but neither he or my lawyers can give me advice outside of what this article also gives. But it’s got me nowhere but in debt. Im a shell of s man and she still has so much control over my life. What do I do?
Hi, Anonymous, I’m so sorry to hear that you’re going through all this. While my situation didn’t involve children, I was married to a man who can best be described as psychopathic although not professionally assessed.
If your ex wife’s assessment is accurate, my suggestion to you would be learn as much as you can about psychopathy. I would recommend Dr Robert Harris and Martha Stouts books as well as Dr. Simons books and blog. I would recommend looking for a Forensic Psychologist versus your average therapist. The Forensic Psychologist may or may not do individual type therapy but will certainly recommend someone well versed in victims of psychopathy. I’ve also recently found a show on the Investigative Discovery Channel (ID) that’s been extremely helpful and therapeutic called ‘Signs of a Psychopath.’ Please ignore the fact that they’re all convicted killers (plenty never kill or break laws enough to result in incarceration) and focus on the different psychological insights of the various psychologists. They do a very good job at explaining the motivations and tactics the psychopaths use during actual police interrogation videos which are the same motivations and tactics they use in any situation. You’ll find they are not an extremely inventive bunch. They’re actually pretty limited.
My biggest suggestion to you is to cool things down. The no contact, boundaries and other assorted recommendations while perhaps well meaning are like throwing gasoline on a bonfire as you’ve found out. I also found this out the hard way much the way you describe. Cooling things down with my ex husband really improved matters.
Psychopathy is best viewed simply as a personality versus a mental illness. People with psychopathic personalities are typically made up of four dark personality traits. Narcissism, Machiavellianism, Sadism, and Anti Socialism. I have found in order to navigate any type of relationship with them (and since you have young children you will need to have some type of relationship with their mother) it’s important to understand and adapt to their personality traits which are fixed and immovable. They all have aspects of all four traits but tend to show one or maybe two traits as most prominent. The violent offenders on the ID show are high in Sadism and/or Antisocialism. My ex husband is very high in Narcissism which is likely more similar to your ex wife. Understanding what primarily motivates them is important (ego, plotting, pain, rule breaking).
Understanding how they operate is crucial. Your ex wife already gave you an example of that with her comment on how helping you doesn’t benefit her. I would strongly suggest thinking about how things you want will benefit her. Psychopathic personalities view people (including their children) as resources. Positioning yourself as an attractive, available resource can be an effective way of dealing with them.
They are transactional. There is a constant cost-benefit analysis going through their mind during any interaction. They have a driving need to win and they most prefer a I win, You lose scenario. They will reluctantly accept a Win/Win scenario if there are acceptable benefits to them. They will seriously avoid a Lose/Lose scenario. They will avoid anything that will cause them to be weak. Compromise is seen by them as a Lose/Lose scenario so that’s something you may want to avoid discussing. I find using the word agreement is acceptable.
I also found ‘excluding’ therapists, lawyers, courts or other higher powers of authority (these are pro social entities that they believe are inferior to them) allowed things to cool down. An example of how I handled this would be a conversation about the conflict I was experiencing between what a therapist or a lawyer was saying versus what he wanted. I opted for a more neutral stance. The fact that I agreed with the therapist or the lawyer wasn’t something I discussed.
One of their personality traits is the driving need to be in control, to control the narrative, so I found allowing him to feel as if he had control cooled down the interaction. A loss of control enrages them so I avoid that and offer carefully selected choices, usually only two- – one has benefits to both of us and the other benefits neither of us if that makes sense and I always ask if he has any suggestions. I know this sounds very subordinate but dealing with them is like navigating an active minefield, it’s important to proceed very cautiously and very carefully.
This type of personality does not accept responsibility for their actions and will shift the blame onto others particularly people they have victimized (if you hadn’t invaded her privacy all this wouldn’t have happened, she will never accept that her affair is what caused this.). Know that everything is about them, how they think, how they feel, what they want, what they need, what they went through and they’re not responsible for any of it. They are the victim. You have to accept this fact, acknowledge it and then be firm in reminding them there are other’s affected too (you, the children—I would avoid your parents as they rejected her machinations so it will be a sore spot.) You will not change her mind that she’s been mistreated, harmed but you can also gently but firmly remind her (without blame!) others exist as well. If you blame her, she will fight and you will lose because they fight with a no holds barred approach while the rest of us have fair fight restrictions.
My experience has taught me that psychopathic personalities are excellent at spotting lies, manipulations and games, so whatever you decide to say to her, be truthful. Also, anything you say to her needs to be from a position of quiet strength. Weakness is a cardinal sin to the psychopath and anyone who is ‘weak’ deserves to be abused, exploited and crushed and they will enjoy doing it. They are also spiteful and vindictive so if you wrong them, they will demand their pounds of flesh. They are dominant so if you attempt to dominate them the feral viciousness of their reaction will most likely scare the pants off you so avoid that. Cool, calm, collected, quiet strength seems to be somewhat intimidating to them. That’s the sweet spot so to speak if you can find it after all you’ve been through.
You may consider cooling things down by apologizing for making ‘rash, reactive’ decisions, for lashing out in hurt and anger, for poorly dealing with how much you loved her and felt betrayed, for listening to the well meaning but ‘poor’ advice of others. Your apology would not be a heartfelt, sincere, tearful apology (which would be viewed as weakness so not recommended) nor one of subjugation (a very risky move and also not recommended unless in the most dire of circumstances) but one of regret as regret is something they can understand, respect and see as a strength. (It may have the added benefit of allowing her to feel as if she won.). Passing blame to others is something they understand and respect so you could use that as well I expect. You could pass blame to the therapists, lawyers, courts, ect to redirect her ire off of you and onto someone else is a solid plan. Be aware, they will never forgive a slight and will continue to nurse their slights and grudges which will rear up and need to be readdressed from time to time.
You could ask or request (demands are dominance so avoid) the calming down of things and working together as you’re concerned that the battle between you is effecting the children and could potentially damage both of your careers. You could make an off the cuff comment about not being like Johnny Depp and Amber Heard (added benefit of elevating her status / ego appeal). Focus on a plan that benefits her and also benefits you. Do not share hopes, dreams, vulnerabilities or wishful thinking unless it contextually makes sense and only then very superficially and shallowly. I’ve gotten good at ‘off the cuff’ type statements such as, ‘We were together for so long, I wish we could be friends.” I’ve since heard he tells everyone we are very good friends and I’ve found his interactions with me have improved significantly. (They don’t really go completely away, maybe never, I’m hoping so but I’ll have to see about that.).
Allowing her to continue to feel superior, in control and dominant will actually help you in the long run typically. Challenging them makes for a very rough road always.
Psychopathic personalities are so successful because they tend to be chameleon like and strategically assess what others want or need. Dealing with her on that level will be something she should understand and respect. Our feelings of guilt, shame, trauma, empathy, conscience are pathetic and weak to them. We cannot elevate them to our more evolved, emotionally mature, pro social way of being even if they pretend (mimic) that behavior. That being said, you know her best and most likely instinctively know what will and won’t be acceptable to her so take my thoughts as examples but focus on what you think or know she will respond best to.
I know after all you’ve been through she probably seems all powerful but she’s not. People with this type personality have some really big weaknesses such as lack of insight, ego, and impulsivity. Even their ‘strength’ traits are weaknesses as they will ‘cut off their nose to spite their face.’ They also tend to be fairly parasitical because they need others to help achieve their goals, they can’t achieve them on their own.
I hope my suggestions help you and don’t offend as there is a distinct lack of justice in what I’m suggesting. It’s difficult as the emotional damage they inflict is rending and healing takes a long, long time. I worry a lot less about justice these days and focus on simply surviving encounters intact.
Thank you for all of this. It was very insightful and very helpful. I felt heard as well. I’m just like you. I’m not looking for justice. I don’t want to put another person through what I’ve been through. That would just make me like her. I don’t want to be cold or spiteful. I don’t need justice. I just went to move forward with my life and survive
Charlie, Anonymous
Excellent insight and advice, from one who completely understands the complexity of dealing with a character disordered person.
Thank you, Lucy! I’m so grateful to Dr. Simon and to you and the others for helping me figure so much of this out and for helping me cope with all of it. We’ve all been through so much!
anonymous
My X used the legal system in a way to break me down as well, and it did. When a person is non compliant, legal fees skyrocket. Being in a lawsuit is like being on a broken merry-go-round and you can’t get off. Mine ended when I caved and gave him what he wanted but didn’t deserve, not by a long shot. I could not afford to continue. So I completely understand what you’re saying.
Hopefully people in your industry can see that she’s unhinged and they’ll see you as a credible person still.
I’ve been through the ordeal where the X husband, and even an X boyfriend, tried to make others think badly of me. I heard back from my friends and some joint friends who thought the guy has really flipped. They were astonished and digusted by it.
Your question, what to do. You’ve got joint custody, so follow the court guidelines of your share of time with your kids. Try to keep your relationship with them intact.
Keep a detailed journal of the encounters with the X in case you may need it in court. Keep her emails, texts.
Good advice I got was that treat every text and email to her as something the judge will ultimately read.
Keep your exchanges with her a minimal as possible, the least amount of words and time as possible. You don’t even have to answer everything. It’s up to you.
Know that what she does will try to keep herself in the up position over you, so be aware of that. I’d label her as a malignant narcissist, as was my X. You can read articles about it on this site. Once you know her game, you’ll know how to handle it. It’s like you have to realize everything she does, she does it to position herself. Read up and study this and you’ll have some relief, because you do have control.
Your kids will reach an age where they can decide how much time to spend with you. In the meantime, try your best to let them see the good of you and know that you truly do care about them.
Hang on. I know how you feel. I reached a point where I thought I didn’t want to carry on anymore, it was so overwhelming. He destroyed me financially and emotionally while going through divorce proceedings. I only got relief when I bent over and gave him what he wanted. Since, I’ve recovered both financially and emotionally. I know that having kids though is a different ordeal.
I wish you the best. Don’t give up yourself. You’ve still got a life to live, and your kids need you.
Thanks for the advice and I’m very sorry that you’ve had to go through it as well. It’s horrible and I wouldn’t wish if on anybody.
I’ve done the journal. I still do it sometimes but rarely. I find it gives me so much anxiety having to re live it all when I journal it and so far I haven’t been able to use any of it. I once tried to get a restraining order and the police wouldn’t look at any of my evidence ( I had videos of her assaulting me, audio recordings of her blackmailing me, Facebook messages of her apologizing for assaulting me ). They just told me to take it to court. So I went to court and the judge didn’t have time to look at any of the evidence and wouldn’t grant an interim order and told me to come back again when she can defend herself. ( I was recognized in court and because I had requested doors being closed because I’m a public figure…the people who recognized me went online saying they believed I was there defending myself and rumors that I was abusive started from this. While I denied them I never cleared up that I was actually there to get a restraining order on her ). Then when she came to court she applied for a counter intervention order on me. I to this day don’t know what her reason was and I ended up caving in and settling for an undertaking which is a step below an intervention order and not enforceable by police. My lawyer told me that if I kept pushing for the intervention order it may be a long and expensive process.
I have to have a recording device on me when ever I’m around her and try my best to meet her in places that have security cameras. She doesn’t know where I live and has made a lot of false accusations about me so the recording device has not only saved me from a bunch of those ( she once physically assulted me and berated me in front of my kids for a solid half an hour and made a false police report saying it was me doing what she did…my recording saved me from that ). It’s also saved my mental health. She gaslights me so well I got to a point where I questioned my own mental health. I’d reason how can somebody do passionately tell me that I said and did things that I don’t recall doing? I really started questioning my own reality. I think our mental health reports were my saving grace. When I read mine I saw I was relatively normal aside from showing signs of anxiety and being noted as being gullible while hers described her exactly as she is.
Sadly most people online will never see her true self. She comes across as very quiet, gentle and sweet and I worked hard to build that image of her. She’s also very beautiful and I’m just a regular guy….pretty privilege is real.
Like you, I also got to a point where I wanted to take my own life and at rock bottom I begged her to stop trying to ruin my life for the sake of my mental health. I told her she had won. I’d given into almost everything she’d wanted. I let her destroy me in hopes it would satisfy her and she laughed, told me I hope you’re not about to cry…she bragged about how I had nothing left to lose and how easy it was to take everything from me. Told me to stop fighting for my kids and then sent me a letter from her lawyer claiming I was suicidal and it wasn’t safe for me to be around the kids. Even though I’d never said anything like it. I also was too scared to tell my friends of psychologist that I was suicidal because I was scared if might get back to her and be used against me. Which made it a lot harder to get through. I ended up getting really strong dosages of anti depressants and zombified myself for a few months and was able to get myself out of feeling suicidal and realize I have to survive for the sake of my kids.
One of my kids is starting to realize what she’s really like and constantly asking me why is mum always so mean to you? I only speak positively about her to them as I don’t want them to know all this stuff and lose their innocence. This daughter is old enough to remember seeing a lot of physical and verbal abuse though. So she sees through it all.
I gave in to her demands about me not working much anymore. I’m running out of money and thinking I may end up having to move in with my parents. I’m so lost and feel like nobody can help me. If the kids weren’t so important to me I’d just move away and start my life over but I love them too much to ever leave. They’re the center of my world. Sorry I feel like this was just a major vent
Obviously you are long over due for a major vent to people who have also experienced what you’ve gone through. You are in the right place. I’ve been on this site for at least 5 years and have found it very helpful and very therapeutic. I’ve been in those low places and sometimes still hit there. I’m struggling to come back to myself and seeing slow but steady improvements.
I have a piece of advice: you are giving her way too much power over you and you need to start working again to recoup your financial losses. Realize she is getting off on her power over you. It’s like a high, a drug that will never stop unless she thinks the benefit of stopping out weight the benefit of continuing.
A tactic I used early on when things were really bad (very similar to what you’ve described) was the I Lose then you will Lose. My ex husband was military and his military career, standing, reputation and ego were/are very important to him. I very calmly, firmly, coldly and very strongly told him that if I lose everything, I would go to the military with everything and make sure he lost everything as well. If I go down, I would not go down alone. I was quite serious and quite truthful and he believed me. He was shocked but he believed me which significantly changed the dynamic and he became more cautious. I had just hit a point that I didn’t care about the consequences or the fear or the anxiety anymore. It’s just a thought to tie into your below post on going public. You are very insightful as to what may happen. It’s likely you will be smeared but most likely she will also be smeared. She has a vulnerability in regards to her image. It may be an advantage you may unfortunately have to use.
Added note: the threat of going to the military was enough but I would have gone through with it if I was left with no other alternative.
Thank you for sharing your story and for your advice. I’m so sorry you went through all of that as well. Nobody deserves to have to go through this but I’m glad you were so strong and put your foot down and it worked.
This is another option I’ve been thinking about taking as well. I’m terrible with conflict. I avoid it like the plague and I’ve rationalized with myself that if I tell her this and she’s secretly recording me ( for all I know she could be. ) that it could be deemed as blackmail and used to get an intervention order against me and potentially effect my custody situation. So I haven’t taken this route. But I’m seriously considering when I pick the kids up from her, having them go in the car and telling her that if it doesn’t stop. If she doesn’t keep trying to stop me from earning a living to provide for our kids. If she doesn’t stop trying to ruin my public image. I’m making everything public and burning us both because she’s already burned me and I’m at the point where I’m really struggling to figure out how I can keep going and keep providing for my kids. And I’ve lost myself through all of this. I feel like the real me died years ago and I’m some kind of dad zombie who lives solely to be super dad with no other life or pleasures outside of that.
I just wish there was another way. I hate that my children have to grow up like this. She isn’t the greatest mum, but she’s also not the worst. I know she loves the kids and they love her and I’m constantly telling myself that their needs should come before my own. I just wish there was a way to end the torture and us work together to give these kids a happy life. She has a new partner so she should be able to just move on and let me go. But I know that’s just a fantasy and I need to grow some balls and finally take action and be on the offense and not just the defense.
Thanks for the advice and for listening. It’s felt therapeutic to share my story
I’ve also thought about going public with everything I’ve gone through as she doesn’t care about the legal system ( constantly breaks court orders and the one time I pushed on this it cost me $17,000 in legal fees just to enforce a basic court order that she was already supposed to follow ) but she cares about her ego and reputation. All my friends tell me to go public about what I’ve gone through. But I’m scared A. She’ll just make up lies about me and people will believe them and my life will become even worse. People tend to believe the person with the biggest voice and to prove my case I’d have to post a lot of evidence that would cause my kids too much pain and embarrassment and B. I’m worried she could sue me if I made a video like that or it may effect my joint custody if I speak out against her. She is quite wealthy and has the money to keep going through the legal system where as I don’t
Anonymous,
I think most of us on here are terrible with conflict and like you I avoid it like plague. You are not alone. It gave me a smile to think I appear competent at conflict. My situation was a hot mess with lots of ups and down, small gains, big failures, trials and errors and now a hindsight 20/20 knowledge. Personally, I think conflict avoidant is a trait they look for in a partner it makes it easier for them to manage and manipulate us.
I am uncomfortable being rude, impolite, and being the aggressor. I quickly learned to put myself in a defensive position because my conscious rests easy when I defend myself versus feeling like I aggressed or hurt someone. My guilt/responsibility button is easily depressed. Lol. I try to find ways to work within a problem for a solution versus offensive/defensive fighting. I just don’t have the innate meanness needed to be successful over the long term. And I absolutely don’t want to become like them but I do use a form of cognitive empathy to figure out what they want and need to work with them when avoiding them is not possible.
So I’m wondering how she’s stopping you from working. The reason I ask is because: The psychopathic personality is so controlling, so dominant and so manipulative that they can really mess up our minds causing us to put physical limits on things they suggest are off limits to us. They imbue themselves with power that they don’t actually have but we believe they have and then we think they’re actually stopping us but really it’s our fear and anxiety that actually stop us. I hope this makes sense. I don’t expect you to explain your situation, I know it’s complicated, public and I don’t understand the dynamic. I’m just hoping you really look, really think about how much she can actually physically do to stop you from working. I found and I think others here have also found these moments after the dust settles of “why did I think this or allow that.” I call them ‘what the hell’ moments and it amazing to me how twisted up my thinking was that I gave more power to him that he could ever have had.
There’s a lot of clarity after you can get some healing time. I’m truly hoping this may be one of those instances. I cannot imagine a scenario in which you need her permission or approval to accept work or go to work. That you actually need to even discuss it with her. No conflict required. You are divorced, she is not your parent or an authority to control you. I cannot imagine a scenario where a grown man needs to discuss with his ex wife his decision to earn a living. You are an independent, mature, unmarried adult. Maybe I’m not understanding your unique circumstances but the trap you’re finding yourself in is typical and a common one in this type of relationship.
Hope that may give you some help.
It’s really hard to explain my work situation without giving away what I do or who I am. I’ll try explain it without giving specifics but I’m not sure if it will make sense.
Basically my business I have now, she used to be involved in. She has her own separate business and is very successful. She is quite wealthy, rarely works but makes A LOT of money when she does. Her business is MUCH MUCH more successful than mine and when we broke up, she retained that and I retained the joint business. She didn’t like this though and insisted either she get our joint business or I start something new from scratch which made no sense at all as this business was still making money and had taken me a lot of blood sweat and tears to build.
She fought me over this in court for years and there had never been a case quite like mine fought before so my lawyers didn’t know exactly how the judge was going to proceed. Eventually after 3 years I was worn down and an emotional wreck and on my own accord signed a legal agreement saying I could only work one day a week in my given field because I’m using what was once our business. I regret it but now these papers are signed and can be used against me if I break the agreement. Its really hard to explain without giving specifics.
I technically can work another job and I’m planning on driving Uber soon. I have skills to work in a much better paying industry but because I had to move to the middle of nowhere to get joint custody of my kids, I can’t get work in that field. Where as the job I had, that she had a lot of control over, I can work from home.
I’m sorry if none of this made any sense
Anonymous,
That completely makes sense, I didn’t consider a joint owned business with a public status.
I am lucky to live in a state that has basically limited the settlement battles. Everything here is a 50/50 split. The courts expect the couple to divide their assets. The attorneys are limited to advising, appraising and need to watch their time as my state does not approve of tens of thousands of dollars in attorney costs. If a settlement can’t be reached, we go to court but my attorney advised me the court may be harsher on the person holding up an agreement. So that helped a lot when my ex husband had a very lopsided balance sheet. I didn’t need to fight or argue, I just stated what the attorney said and it’s not an equitable 50/50 split. I really feel for you and Lucy. What an exploitative process. Of course that being said, I still had to deal with a lot of difficulty in how to split up assets (every asset doesn’t need to be a 50/50 split as long as at the end of the balance sheet the split is equitable.) There were of course still problems with others pieces of the settlement and negative aspects of the law I had to navigate but the asset split was a boon.
So two things you might want to consider:
One of the things I learned from Dr Simon was about Impression Management and how it is often a very important aspect of how the disturbed character operates and succeeds.
The second thing, I learned through my experience and research, I needed to move away from binary thinking. I would either fight or give in/give up. That’s binary. I moved into a different place with everything I learned from Dr Simon and the research of psychopathy.
I stopped arguing, pleading, discussing, convincing, cajoling, and fighting. The constant conflict was so traumatic I could hardly function. I certainly wasn’t successful with any of those tactics and I noticed he seemed to relish them even while he denied it. It made him stronger and me weaker. So I moved to truth, simple statements and suggestions, and recognizing what my ex husband wanted or needed. I no longer tried to appeal to any sort of conscious, decency or fairness. I focused on what was important to him to get what I wanted or needed.
So long story short, my ex husband wanted to see me fail, be ruined, be crushed. I made a clear commentary in a very calm, neutral tone that went something like this:
I know that you want to see me fail, that you want others to see me as a failure. Congratulations, you have succeeded, you’ve done an excellent job as you well know. But, I’m left wondering, have you considered how that’s going to look to people later on? We both have experienced other people divorcing and have lost respect for quite a few people seeing their divorce battles. Everyone respects both parties of a respectful parting of ways. Sure, some will think I was a loser burden that you propped up but, let’s face it, others will wonder how a decent person like you could be ok with standing by and watching my suffering. They’ll start to remember how successful a couple we were. They start to wonder how one person coming out of a divorce could be so successful and the other such a failure, stripped of all dignity. They’ll start to see you as on top and me crushed. Then they’ll start looking at you differently. It’ll be hard to be seen as my victim, the wronged party with me and our dogs living in my SUV like you want. So you may want to consider what the long term effect will be for you. We stay on this path, and people will eventually recognize the dynamic of our relationship and truthfully, in the end you’ll look like the bad guy. Or we could choose a different path, show some respect to each other, the relationship we had and both of us come out of this with dignity, the respect of others and success with respect to our accomplishments. You have certainly proven your point that you can destroy me and I certainly regret choices that I’ve made. You’ll always be more successful than me, no questions there, but if I’m living in my car, people will know, the disparity will be too great to ignore.
I don’t remember exactly what he said, something nasty and self congratulatory. I do remember I got to see if without his mask which completely rattled me. I figured my little gambit was another failure but then a week or two later he called me with his idea that it wasn’t right that he was so successful and I won’t be and that doesn’t seem right to him. So he has some ideas how we can both come through this with respect and our dignity intact. My little gambit did change the dynamic.
So it’s a little shameful and a little traumatizing to realize that I can get in the head space of a psychopath and relate to him on his level. At the same time, I’m kind of proud that I could figure out how to talk his talk and change the dynamic. I spoke the truth so I didn’t lie or manipulate, I didn’t gaslight or dominate. I just made a clear point about the future something they tend to be weak on as psychopaths tend to be very much in the now, immediate gratification. As Dr. Simon says about the character disturbed, They want what they want and they want it now.
Maybe consider starting with a request to renegotiate the joint business agreement, if the business is even worth saving at this point. You could make the same points as I did with the change of how will it look when the successful businessman and father of her children is driving Uber and living with his parents. Just an idea to consider before using the nuclear option of burning you both.
This was very well thought out and I’m going to start writing some things down. When I’m around my ex I often get tongue tied. Especially when I’m trying to speak about things like this. Do you think it would make me sound way too weak if I was to read it out loud from my phone when I said this to her?
I think the point of letting her know she has won and proved her point ( I tried this in the past and she enjoyed hearing it ) but with the added “how do you think it will look to others that you are remaining successful and that you are allowing me and our kids to have to move in with my mum due to how hard done by I was in the divorce. Her public image is what she cares about most and there’s millions of people looking at her constantly telling her how amazing she is. She once got furious when I publicly admitted I had suffered depression since our divorce as she said it made her look bad. So you’re definitely on the right track with how her mind works
I’m glad my experience is giving you some ideas. I was a little nervous about how it was going to be received. I’m more than ‘a little’ ashamed and more than ‘a little traumatized’ about how I can get into their headspace. I don’t exactly know why, I worked really hard to learn all I could and I’ve done behavior work with animals and get into their headspace. (Truthfully, it’s easier for me to get into an animal’s head than the psychopath’s.)
So, when I had this conversation with my ex I did it over the phone. I had my script written down, I had gone over it for quite awhile before approaching. I used the phone because I was more comfortable not seeing his face while I spoke calm and matter of fact. When I said I ‘saw his mask drop’ what I really meant was heard but I didn’t think it was important enough to differentiate.
I considered sending it in an email format but was too nervous about having something in writing. Again, I’m very uncomfortable about the fact that I can do this but when I look at what I said objectively, I see nothing that would indicate blackmail, threats, abuse, manipulations or gaslighting so in writing may be fine. There are even quite a few compliments throughout. If you decide writing, you may want to run it past your attorney first.
I would definitely include antidepressants in your future outlook as you already know she’s aware of the negative impact on her. You would be fine reading from your phone as long as you set it up properly, from a place of quiet strength and not emotional weakness. You can say you’re nervous or anxious, you just can’t look or act overly nervous or anxious. (Being a bit nervous or anxious or even intimidated is flattering to them.) I’ve noticed that if I preface a conversation with my ex husband with I’m nervous or worried or anxious, he’s flattered and then proves my worries were unfounded, he is all that is reasonable and kind.
If I use the word fearful, he’s enraged! And then he’ll promise to show me what it means to be fearful. So avoid fear or fearful type language, it’s either a narcissistic wound or you’re too close to the truth they’re working to mask.
Be very specific in your request but keep it short. Their attention span is short and too big of a plan will feel controlling to them. I would assume you would request that she allow you to have the joint business. You could mention you could try to pay her something for its value but not sure how you could accomplish that with the current state of the business (assuming that’s true.) and your dismal state of personal finances.
(One of the things I find really hard is to admit my weaknesses or the successes they’ve accrued but I’ve found that again they’re flattered and satisfied that what they’ve done has worked. If I act weak and helpless or over emotional then I take the risk of triggering their predatory drive which gets ugly.). That also includes acting like or defining yourself as the victim or that you’ve been victimized. Accept that they believe you ‘deserve’ their treatment and they’re the victim in any interaction. You know and we all know it’s not true but it’s an important narrative to them. I’ve found they actually know it’s not true but for some reason need to embrace it and challenging it can be difficult—not impossible but very difficult and sometimes necessary if they’re too deep in their personal reality.)
(One more thing if you need to make a dent in her personal reality. Avoid the word cheating. I would put money on that word being an inflammatory trigger. Affair may not be ok either. I would focus on blunt and factual so you could bluntly say, I found out you were sleeping with another man and reacted emotionally or badly or whatever adjective works best there for you. Pass the blame, I did what others taught or told me I should do in such a circumstance. What else was I supposed to do?)
It’s good to offer things to them. Don’t commit, don’t promise, just suggest. I use maybe and probably a lot when I’m suggesting. You have to leave enough room for them to turn the idea into theirs, be magnanimous in the ‘gift’ they present back to you. It’s important for their ego and self image that you give them that ability. You also have to generously praise them for their ‘plan’ or they will feel deflated after and change their mind becoming more vengeful and vindictive. It’s a careful balancing act and don’t count chickens before they’re hatched. And do not become too happy, too confident, or too excited because it will entice them to pull the rug out from under you. They are malignant narcissists and enjoy watching suffering.
(Also, if her ‘plan’ includes things that don’t work for you-which is likely- you can cautiously push back. I typically give a Hmmm, praise the good parts and then state the difficulties with the bad parts in a very neutral way. As I’ve been told the minutia details are not all that important to him (them).
Hope all this helps and good luck to you. I’m available if you need anything. It’s a risk that may or may not work but when I took this risk, I felt like I didn’t have much left to lose.
P.S. I would use this as a last resort as you don’t want her attentions turned to the kids but:
You could point out the obvious as well, the kids are going to start asking questions. How will she explain to the kids Daddy’s poverty when she’s so wealthy? Will they go to school and talk to their friends or will other parents notice the disparity and start talking/gossiping amongst themselves. How embarrassing that would be for both of you. Let her draw the obvious conclusions and decide how she going to manage the impression.
Anonymous,
I think this will work. Her being in the public eye, and her number one priority being her image, I cannot imagine it not working.
If you do it in a text or email, it will prevent the tongue tying, her interrupting you and it not coming out clearly.
And like Charlie, at first she’ll respond how she usually does, disparagingly and basking in her brilliance, but once she thinks it over, I imagine you’ll get a different response.
Charlie,
stopped arguing, pleading, discussing, convincing, cajoling, and fighting. The constant conflict was so traumatic I could hardly function. I certainly wasn’t successful with any of those tactics and I noticed he seemed to relish them even while he denied it. It made him stronger and me weaker. So I moved to truth, simple statements and suggestions, and recognizing what my ex husband wanted or needed. I no longer tried to appeal to any sort of conscious, decency or fairness. I focused on what was important to him to get what I wanted or needed.
I did the same, as was suggested on this site. It didn’t change his attitude of still trying to destroy me, but I was no longer engaging in arguments that never resolved a thing., which only frustrated me and caused me more turmoil.
Your response to him re what he’ll look like in the end was a very helpful suggestion for others. His first impulse was to bask in the joy, which is why he’d done it. Then after thinking about it, he realized you were right, then made it sound like he was a good guy to have you come out ok. Whic is ok! You got the result.
Lucy,
I’m not surprised it didn’t work with your ex husband. If I recall he ruined his own reputation sometime prior to your divorcé proceedings. Truthfully, it wouldn’t surprise me if his attempted destruction of you was about him trying to reclaim his self image, making himself feel powerful again. I imagine getting disbarred was quite the narcissistic wound for him. I would expect his was like a cornered feral animal or a rabid one for quite some time.
Charlie, Anonymous
You remember correctly. He did destroy himself and reputation, then tried to take me with him. He nearly did. He had both my legs pulling me under, but I’m a strong swimmer. I do not give up easily.
He was like a cornered feral animal! Vicioius!
He told his attorney the reason he used prostitutes was because of me being frigid. I may be a lot of things, but that’s not one of them. He was impotent.
He secured a job with his friend’s company. That’s where all the slandering played. These were people whom I did not know well, they were “his” people, so he made sure they thought I was the bad one. But he was with that company long enough to where they saw what he was and from what i hear they were “scared” of him.
So Anonymous, it may appear that she has this clean glowing image, but you know the people who know her can see her true self, a fake. They can only fool for a while. Thing is, there is really nothing you can do once the slander starts. They end up burying themselves, though, all by themselves. It will come around to that.
Anonymous, Charlie
I totally understand how she is using the legal system as a way to get her way and to break you. She can afford on ongoing battle whereas you can’t. I was in that position, as my X husband was a disbarred attorney who eventually began representing himself. During the process, I had to do a cost/benefit analysis of what it would take moneywise and timewise and emotional healthwise to file something against him. There was contant non comliance. I got to the point where taking the loss of his non compliance was cheaper than fighting it. It became a regular thing to do what I called bend over and grab my ankles. So there is that – the cost assessment of filing papers in court.
Charlie has given you invaluable suggestions and insight that has taken her years of life experience to gain, and is here to help you and me and others from what she’s learned.
I have learned so much on this site and it has given me so many suggestions and education how to deal with people such as our Xs. With kids, like you and I, you can never walk away from them, they are always lurking. My kids were grown when I left the X, and I did not speak to him for four years. I do now because I’m able to handle him to do exchanges with our grandson and things that have come up with our adult children. But this is now seven years since I left him.
You mentioned gaslighting. It was suggested to me, and I did follow, that there are some circumstances that it’s good to write down what was said to you, your response, and just keep it in a closed journal in case it comes up again. This is for your use only, not to counter attack the X. It’s just for your own good so that you are not losing your memory and that she’s playing you.
Never text or email or even tell her anything that she can present in court. Be aware that everything you say and do she is there to use it against you.
What a brutal woman she is.
Believe me, once you follow the suggestions of Charlie and others here who have been through this, you’ll have some tools how to cope and gradually heal.
Thank you, Lucy! I’m so grateful to Dr. Simon and to you and the others for helping me figure so much of this out and for helping me cope with all of it. We’ve all been through so much!