Understanding Character Disorders

Disturbances of Character

More folks have character disturbances these days. Aspects of modern culture promote such disturbances – even reward them. When these disturbances become serious, we label them character disorders.

By definition, character reflects the moral dimension of personality. Our personalities bespeak the unique way we perceive and deal with our world. But the very way  we prefer to relate and cope can become problematic. (See also the series beginning with: Personality and Character Disorders: A Primer.)

Character disturbances stem from inadequate conscience formation during personality development. And character disorders result from an impoverished or even absent conscience. Moreover, individuals possessing certain traits have trouble forming good consciences. Folks with inflated egos have that trouble. (See: Narcissism and Character Development.) So do folks who tend to be too headstrong or aggressive. (See: Understanding the Aggressive Personalities.) The former have trouble recognizing and respecting a higher authority. The latter actively pit themselves against the rules.

Character Disorders and Relationships

For years, we’ve defined personality and character disorders a certain way. We looked for how much distress a person’s way of coping them (or others). Or, we looked for how it affected their ability to function. Most especially, we gauged how much the person’s style of relating deviated from the norm. But today’s character-challenged times bring this definition into question. Ways of relating once seen as outrageous or deviant have become the new norm. And many times, these ways don’t distress a person, but actually work for them. Accordingly, researchers have been re-thinking character disorders. We’ll soon be defining them within the context of relationship impairment. Folks with character disorders tend to be shallow and exploitative in relationships. And that’s where all the trouble comes. I’ll have more to say about relationships and character disorders in the weeks to come.

A Powerful Resource

This blog is a powerful resource for understanding and dealing with character disturbance. A plethora of articles can help you navigate through our character-impaired times. Because newcomers arrive at the site weekly, I thought it best to highlight some of the more informative and helpful articles. several are already listed above. More are listed below:

Then, of course, there are my books:

Character Matters

Character Matters will air live 9-10-17 at 7 pm EDT. So, I can take your phone calls. Call in at (501) 258-8326 to join the discussion.

57 thoughts on “Understanding Character Disorders

  1. All cluster “B” Disorders have histrionics, paranoia and narcissism as part of there traits. Some where on the Spectrum

  2. Character disorders are so prevalent nowadays it’s hard to keep track.

    The new pick-up line is going to read “I’m a covert manipulator, what character disorder are you under?”

    It’s scary how many types of people we have to be on the watch for!

      1. Dr. Simon,
        Again, another avenue of insight into the inner world of the CD and I will say the appropriate and all Lights On voice to the real truth of what our society has become. In this world today Right is Wrong, Darkness is Light and above all Truth is a Lie.

        Thank you, for the simplicity of Telling it Like it is. Today this is a rarity and frowned upon as politically incorrect. Thank you for letting the light of truth shine through and enlightening us with your knowledge on this blog. The truth indeed, from you, Dr. Simon has set many free. I know personally the truth set me free, especially, after reading, In Sheep’s Clothing.

        1. Joey,

          If somebody can laugh at a Cluster B synopsis which you commented on, then I say they are not wrong my friend. It is no laughing matter, under any circumstance.

          Folks with character disorders tend to be shallow and exploitative in relationships. And that’s where all the trouble comes.

          I think that one sentence of the Docs sums it up perfectly.

        2. Joey – I just want to add one further comment at this point.

          You have been there, you lived through it, you can recognise them/it.

          Nobody else can, if they find it funny, they won’t for long once they hitch up with a Cluster B.

      1. Is it possible that she was laughing at what I said and not at what Joey said?

        I was trying for a little levity with what I posted. Most people who search out this site have been damaged by covert manipulators, they have done the most damage in my life and they have left a legacy that will last a life time. I can still find some kind of humor in those a-holes though. It’s a coping skill for me. My H and I are at times incredulous at the way these CDs think and act so we find a way to lighten the moment.

        Regarding what I said about pick-up lines, my daughter is still in the dating game and she meets a mixed bag of nuts out there. She has dated most of the CD spectrum and the old pick up line “I’m a scorpio what sign are you under?” has gone by the way of the dodo bird and since CDs are so prevalent I suggested that it might become the norm to be asking what disorder someone might have?

        My daughter is in a career that allows her to see all types of covert manipulators and I’m happy she has been able to learn about it without being damaged.

        In my opinion I do not see a “red flag” with one line “that made me laugh.”

          1. Lucy, I’d love to come up with a good knock, knock joke.

            Knock, Knock
            Who’s there?
            Covert Manipulator
            Covert Manipulator Who?
            ____________________ (anyone want to fill in the blank)

        1. To all,

          There was no place to slip in so , so apologize. I read the response by Constance. At the time I posted I had read both Joey’s, and ‘s Sydney’s reply. My first thought was questioning and after much thought reading Constant’s post laughing not at Joey but at what Sydney wrote. I though Constance response was due to how ridiculous society has become, we now discuss our CD’s to see if we are compatible. I don’t think Constant meant any harm, if anything she replied to what she felt internally without thinking how people who have come out of CD relationships feel.

          I agree with Joey and Eudox, this in true reality and is no by means a laughing matter. Even though there have been times I have laughed at inappropriate matters, as that is the only emotion that could have saved me and kept my sanity at the moment. Just as Lucy commented, either laugh or be torn apart by the sadness and destruction.

          Joey and Eudox, I wholeheartedly agree this is no laughing matter, it is an extremely serious and is the main distorted thinking of the CD that is pulling our society into the mire of self annihilation.

          Truly, in my heart of hearts, I don’t believe Constance meant any malicious intent, she commented looking at all this from a position of not having an insight into the darkness of the CD behavior and ramifications we have experienced. As Sydney explained and I feel the shallowness with the selfie cult and such, the next thing that will be in vogue is the awareness of CD but not in the light that Dr. Simon teaches. but acceptance and the norm for the day. It will be in the light of acceptance and changing responsible behavior for inappropriate disordered thinking and acceptance.

          Take care all, we are one and in this an immense strength that can bring about change and stability

          Peace hope and love and Hugs

          1. BTOV,

            “I don’t think Constant meant any harm, if anything she replied to what she felt internally without thinking how people who have come out of CD relationships feel.”
            “I don’t think Constant meant any harm, if anything she replied to what she felt internally without thinking how people who have come out of CD relationships feel.

            With all due respect, unless Constance posts what she actually did mean then speculating what she may have meant or not meant is a waste of time, only Constance can say for sure, and frankly is it really that big of a deal? It’s the same as giving space and feedback to trolls,(not implying for one minute you’re a troll Constance), if you don’t like what you read scroll down and forget about it. IMHO take what you want and need from this forum and leave the rest. It works for me.

    1. The only thing you have to be on the watch for Sydney is covert manipulation. Once you have nailed it and can recognise it — well you recognise it then you break the spell. Simple -smile-

  3. Energy.

    As in: energy depletion.

    Without energy, the individual feels trapped. In that state, he seeks to conform, fit in, survive long enough to die of old age. Body and mind deploy various feedback mechanisms to inform a person about his “available supply of energy,” and when these signals are taken as absolute truth, trouble comes.

    “I can sense my energy is dwindling. So I have to…settle for less, or see a doctor, or give up, or accept that I’m getting older, or change my values, or tune up a victim-story, or join a group, or…”

    On and on it goes.

    In this twilight zone, the individual is unwilling to consider solutions that could restore his vitality. He’s already opted for a lower level of life. In particular, he’s unwilling to explore the one aspect of his capability that works like magic: imagination.

    That’s out. No dice. Preposterous. Absurd.

    After all, imagination is just that spring rain he felt as a child, that unknown space that held all the promise in the world.

    That was then; this is now.

    Now is sober reflection. Now is routine. Now is habit. Now is empty. Once upon a time, he read a science fiction novel and, at the end of it, he felt as if he were standing, triumphant, in deep space at the crossroad of a hundred solar systems.

    Now he knows there is no such place. Now he is intelligent. And now he has no energy. The light that once flared is gone. The idea that his own imagination could lead him to discoveries beyond anything he knows is fool’s gold.

    Yes, once when he was twenty, he woke up in the middle of the night and walked to his window and looked out over a city and knew he was on the cusp of an endless future…but what can he do about that now? There is no returning. So his imagination waits. It idles.

    Yet…if he took a chance, if he began to dream again, if he started up the engine, if he considered offloading the interlocking systems that have become his daily life, what might happen? What layers of dead thought might peel away? What abiding convictions might dissolve? What energies might be restored?

    Is there a huge space beyond his common neurological impulses and rigid survival habits, where Vision can be played out on a vast scale? Is there a different kind of life he can enter? Can he take a route around the banners and facades of his former reality after opening the door to his imagination?

    There is, in fact, a silent channel that winds through the entire time-scale of the human race. History does not officially record it, because history is written by winners for losers, and this silent channel has nothing to do with pedestrian notions of victory or defeat. The route of imagination has no truck with conventional space or time. It invents its own, and eventually introduces them into the world.

    How many stories are there about journeying knights who cross the boundary from ordinary events into a realm of magic?

    The stories are messages…sent to ourselves, to remember. This place, this day, this moment is a platform from which to embark.

    Adventure, with no end.



    Jon Rappaport – re-blogged without permission [but I’m sure he won’t mind]

    1. Eudox,

      Thank you for this post and sharing the words of wisdom by Jon Rappaport.
      He is a man of integrity and speaks truth. At this time I am troubled with many CDNSP, these words bring me back to reality and give me strength.

      My strength lies within and I must never give up hope, my dreams or lose my imagination. Rather than lose my imagination I must take my power back. I alone have to do this. I appreciate all the support and Kindred Spirits on this blog.
      God Bless all

        1. Eudox,

          Thanks for the encouragement, a beautiful song, I just listened to the you tube with Jon Rappaport and he spoke about imagination. Its a prompt to uplift oneself. I really enjoy listening to his words of wisdom, I have to say he looks well, it must be his inner joy, peace and love that pours out of him. God bless him.

          I have been rather down, having to deal with the CDN’s it really drains you and I am in one of the dark nights of the soul. I know God is working on me, he has work for me to do, just what it is, I don’t know.

          I also am at my end of grieving, you see, when I left my X, I really loved him, I didn’t live a lie, he hid behind the mask. It was difficult for me to do, but I knew I had to. I never went through the anger stage, I forgave him even though I went NC and when he would do ridiculous, hateful things I forgave him.. Its not my nature to get angry and rage like the CDN’s. I knew he was suffering inside, I also knew that in the end he would bring more grief and disaster upon himself than I could ever think to do.

          For me forgiveness set me free. It is a gift I have, I can read these CDN’s its as if I can smell them.. I knew all I could and would do is watch the bonfire of the vanities and the CDN fall apart and lose all his sanity.
          It’s very sad to lose so many to this diseased sickness of the soul. So many in my family and the families and children of friends, all losing their loved ones. I always encourage one to pray for their loved ones and to let God deal with them or the judge, which takes the burden off one.

          Forgiveness, is more for the forgiver as it sets one free of the anger, hate and vengeance that many times we can feel. Forgiveness also gives the forgiver the release to live ones life. Don’t get me wrong, I will never forget and heed the red flags I never seen before., that are clear to me now instead of confusion. I also, most the time never let these CD relatives in my life again.

          I will try to bounce back, I appreciate all the concern I have received from others on this blog. I know in the end I will become stronger.
          Thank you for caring and yes I will try to accomplish something positive this weekend.

          Blessing to all.

          1. BOTV
            Today IS a new day. If there is no ugly chaos in it then you get to enjoy it. We hear it all the time, live in the moment. It’s all that clutter and junk in our minds because of all the chaos we suffer when dealing with the CD ( your sis and others) that can overtake our brain and deplete our ability to enjoy life. But if you can stop THINKING about it – it could be a good day. I know. Easier said than done. Honestly, my suffering would just not cease till I signed the divorce papers. We won. He and lawyers left me drained. But finally I can feel myself healing. So for me, I could not heal while I still had involvement with the CD. It was a daily beating. It whittles away at the spirit, strength and vitality and the ability to enjoy life.
            BOTV You’ve done enough for the sis, over and beyond what is healthy. You’ve got to let her go. She will find another victim

          2. BTOV

            I hear you loud and clear. There is no fault in being human. You did your best that is the absolute only thing we can do. We can not go beyond doing the best we can do. Sometimes our best isn’t good enough for others and they can’t accept that and want more and more and more. When we have family I believe we have been falsely programmed by religion to maintain obligations (blood is thicker than water etc) we should not extend past their “use by” date. When we have CD in our family – we owe them nothing once they breach those basic fundamental principles of love and trust because that’s all they will do, and continue to do, on and on is steal our life force. They are hungry ghosts.

            We must not allow them to steal our life force. While I have many criticisms of exoteric religion, the Bible is rampant with warnings about these people, from cover to cover. The Bible has many truths in it but it is interspersed with disinformation. What is very clear in the Bible though is a warning over and over again to Touch Not the Unclean Thing. I’ve put the link below, you have probably seen it. Smakintosh speaks from the heart.

            Dr Mate’s book In the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts which he wrote about addiction after years of experience in an addiction clinic in Vancouver working with addicts has made some very profound connections in the early developing brain. It will eventually blow the gene theory out the window. The Realm of the Hungry Ghosts is one of the six realms Buddha explains that we incarnate into after death depending of course on how we lived our previous life.

            The Realm of the Hungry Ghosts is one level above the Hell Realms (yes plural) on a higher level, people who incarnate into this realm are like little headed people with mouths like pins and huge stomachs. They have stomachs the size of Mt Meru and tiny little frail legs and arms that can barely carry their over HUGE stomachs. They are always hungry and craving food. Before them is a huge banquet but the pin mouthed creatures due to their frail arms and legs can never get to the banquet table and even if they could they would never be able (due to their pin sized mouths) to remotely eat enough to make them full. So they are in a permanent state of hunger – always craving and the craving never stops.

            Here in 3D in our physical bodies it is people like us who are the banquet – the pin mouths are the CD and the drug addicts of the world. I’m talking about the hard core addicts who stay addicted for the term of their natural lives and who will generally die of an overdose or some other complication due to ill health. Dr Mate claims he also has an addiction to classical music which he explains. Much like an alcoholic standing outside the pub waiting for it to open, he does similar with classical music shops. He has thousands of dollars worth of classical CDs.

            One half of Dr Mate’s book is about our brain, particularly during gestation and the first 3 years of our lives. I am about 3 quarters of the way through it. I have cried several times while reading this book. Main stream medicine and psychiatry and related sciences are well behind the eight ball here. Human contact and nurture is incredibly important. Our brains are not fully developed when we are born. They continue to grow for several years after birth. All of our neural pathways have not fully formed and are subject to forming dependent on many things – nurture being paramount. Put it this way “what wires together, fires together”. If nurture doesn’t register those neural pathways don’t work because they never got the chance to form properly in the first place.

            I am going to compile the salient points from Dr Mate’s book, I’ve been madly dog earing pages. I need to compile the information I have taken on board. It isn’t my book it’s on loan from my psyche friend so I have to return it but I am going to buy it anyway it’s too valuable not to have as a reference.

            I rang my son and said his partner must read this book before they have kids. She will – my boy isn’t that intellectual, he’s intelligent but it’s just not his thing! He’s no book worm LOL He’s beautiful though oodles and oodles of empathy – she’s the same but studying psychology. She will take it well and truly on board. After all we have plenty of incentive. We have unclean things in both our familie, we don’t want anymore.

            You did the right thing by removing your sister from your life BTOV. I have done the same. We did not incarnate here as a banquet for hungry ghosts. Our lives and our life force is valuable not in monetary terms but in physical and spiritual terms. You are valuable – YOU MATTER. You can’t keep giving until there is nothing left of yourself. The hungry ghosts will drool at any banquet table, you don’t need to be it.

            I will give anything to help anybody who is in need. What I wont give is my life force to vampires and hungry ghosts. I think that is a promise we all need to make to ourselves and keep. I know you have probably seen this but I am posting it again because I know you will struggle with your decision about your sis. This is just a gentle reminder of why you need not to.

            You were my rock when I first came here. I will never forget it. Please take care of yourself, you are precious in the right way.

            Big Huggzzzzzz to you.


    1. Joey,

      Yes, you are right, I must read In Sheeps Clothing again, I must never forget.
      Its all contained in that one book. Thank you for speaking the way. Bye!

  4. Eudoxia

    I have followed Rappaport for years. I appreciate what he writes and his skill as a thinker. Strangely though, after watching him on video for the first time, I was repulsed.

    He also seems to be describing a social situation that’s no longer in vogue. Nowadays, it seems kids are lionized for their creativity and necessary skills like suppressing emotional impulse, are undervalued.

    Nevertheless, his description of how so many of HIS generation were stifled is eloquent and thanks for posting!

  5. Guys

    There is a bit of insensitivity going on here at present. While I appreciate good humor there are times when it can be rather crass. I have just spent some time watching Sinead O’Connor talking about her mental illness. What is obvious is this woman is heart broken from familial narcissistic abuse that has been ongoing her entire life. She is currently in a self imposed exile and suffering extreme suicide ideation.

    She is in desperate need of help as are many others out there who have lived their entire lives not understanding what narcissists are.

    Here is what she says – I suggest you listen to her.


    I for one am going to try to track her down and help her understand what she is going through is A. not an isolated event and B. you can heal from narcissistic abuse. She needs loving support right now as do many others I bet. How many people in the world are suffering like she is right now? We have all been there to various degrees. How many people are going to commit suicide today because they have been abandoned, betrayed, maligned, slandered and had their entire families and friends turn on them because of a malignant narcissist?

    I found this site and it was a God send – today I feel like looking for another site to continue to post on. I don’t find narcissistic jokes at all funny – sorry.

    1. To All,

      I have to agree with Eudox, comments are becoming rather obtuse and not a laughing matter, I don’t find joking about this serious sickness that is destroying human life and our world funny. I think we would all benefit by staying on topic. As I stated this world is being torn apart by this sickness, my family has been torn apart and I only see further generations sicker than their predecessors.. We are the the ones who should be setting an example, not lowering ourselves to the level of the CD.

      I hope this doesn’t deter you from posting Eudox, you have contributed an enormous amount of information benefiting many.

  6. Btov and Eudoxia,
    Laughter is the best medicine. Nobody here is laughing at or belittling those who have suffered or are currently being victimized by a CD.

    1. LisaO
      humor helped me cope these past few years. I’ve always been thankful to have a healthy ease of humor. I can find humor in most anything. Real humor or possibly “false” humor, doesn’t matter to me. Laughing is my medicine

    2. LisaO
      I agree. What I can laugh about at times is the absurdity and how far fro the norm and acceptance of a human being is – it’s not a funny haha laugh – more of a release of several emotions which I probably dont even understand. I wil never stop laughing. It’s my saving grace, my release. I see absolutely no offensive comments regarding the silly jokes here – and I’ve suffered plenty. I say laugh your ass off of you so desire. We aren’t laughing at others. I think maybe people who don’t hav e the sense of humor I do don’t understand how one can laugh while in dire straits. I’d bet if I met Sinaed personally – and I’ve watched her videos – I could get a smile and giggle from her – and she’s momentarily feel a bit of joy.

      1. Lucy,

        Thanks for the words of wisdom with the Sis, yes it was the right time to cut the cord. I watched the video with Sinaed, from the several I saw this woman has mental illness, a true mental illness. I have an acquaintance that works for NAMI and she has told me horror stories. Many of the women who have been severely abused present as this Sinaed does and its difficult to break through their defense mechanisms to get them appropriate help. Very sad as these are the most abused women that will go into another violent relationship.

        On the other hand I watched another you tube which presents the true picture of a CDN, this woman made a fool of herself and displayed her true self. The problem with this woman is. she truly is delusional and can’t see herself. It is all sad to see the wasted lives they live and the havoc and destruction they cause in the innocent persons life. Especially, what is disturbing is when they are successful in creating another CDN.


  7. What is sad to me, is that there is also so much same and guilt for having a mental illness. What I think it is also is worse about the way our society is, is that a narcissist mirrors mental illness in pretty much everyone they come in contact with.

  8. JC,

    There is unnecessary shame and guilt–for sure. Much of it arises from a lack of understanding of the person with a mental disorder. But to be fair, many people with mental illnesses are very difficult to live with.

    They often lack empathy, through no fault of their own, but that can make them very burdensome to be around. Then you have schizophrenics who actively push you away, avoid you or are openly hostile to you even when you love them, understand them and are trying your level best to do the best for them. And all of this at great cost to your own peace of mind.

    Sinead O’connor, from what I have read, suffers from a mental illness and has neglected her children while psychotic. The state obviously intervened to protect the kids. Should they be returned because she lacks insight, while in the grip of a psychosis? Probably not.

    Dos this mean she is a bad person? No. Does it mean she jas never been targeted by sharks in the entertainment industry? No. If she was bipolar she would have been red meat for predators when she was younger.

    These stars who are able to work 18 hour, gruelling days, when young, are sometimes in the hypo manic stage of the disorder. It’s possible that Britney Spears was hypo manic and then had a massive emotional and mental burnout. She seems to be back on her feet and doing well now. Am really happy for her.

    But Sinead seems to have progressed to full blown bi-polar. She will probably need to be on medication for the rest of her life and also learn who to avoid in the music business. It’s too bad that in the realm of managers, agents and accountants who cater to that industry, that’s almost everybody!

    1. True, it isnt easy to have my own issues and the mirror of mental illness dished out by a CDN parent.

      Love her anyway, and pray she is safe in the path of Irma. Only thing I know is it is evacuated.

      1. What is the most hurtful is that she told a provider while I was unconscious, that I had schizophrenia, and I was medicated accordingly. I have GI issues, and that stuff makes it worse-now that she would not know, but having been the one to explain the difference between a cognitive disorder (I do have one, just memory from a TBI), and there is also the fact that she knows how much I think the stuff is toxic, bad for you, and generally hate it.

        The advantage as said before, I unlearn everything I did to punish myself for the shortcomings of both my mother and the kids at school who also were bullies-though less so.

  9. Lucy,

    What is that expression? Comedy is tragedy plus time? I can’t remember. It’s likely harder for some of those currently mired in the overwhelm AND experiencing grief to be able to laugh at the absurdity. And when it’s your child too, that has to cut right to the bone. They say the death of a child is never overcome. If you have a child who has been cruel and it is unresolvable, I can understand there may never be necessary distance or time to enable one to laugh.

    I hope Eudoxia and Btov know they are understood. I hope, too, they understand that others who have only experienced the brutal nature of a P or Malignant N. through marriage or a liaison CAN laugh and it is something to aspire to. Being able to laugh about it, gives us a sense of mastery over the situation and our lives.

    1. LisaO
      It is hard to laugh and enjoy anything in life at times when in major turmoil. I found when I went through a depression that I quit singing to music and laughing. It was gone. Zip. Nothing. I told a friend I’m like Tigger in Winnie the Pooh when he lost his bounce. It’s awful. When the singing and laughing stop in me, that’s when I’m in trouble.
      But I’m Back!!

    2. LisoO, once again thank-you for your insightful words. I truly think that laughter is the best medicine. Never did I imagine that humor in this forum equates to insensitivity nor did I think it was off topic.

      I have turned a blind eye to opinions in this forum straying from the topic but I simply use the scroll feature on my mouse and carry on to the ones that I can relate to.

      Eudoxia and BTOV I have been grateful for your words of wisdom and compassion in the past, please understand that some of us have found the humor in our situations to ease the pain. I could not imagine living with my memories without moments of levity and as a result make a joke of the CDs that have invaded my life.

  10. To All,

    As I said before I don’t begrudge humor and laughter is food for the soul. But narc jokes aren’t even remotely funny in fact I don’t even think I’ve ever heard one. Do you know why? Because people who have been through the mill with these hounds of hell aren’t laughing.

    It wasn’t about what Constance said – it’s what came after it. People, like myself and everybody else here and those yet to come, come to this site when in serious emotional trauma highly adrenalized, emotionally strung and wrung out and probably suffering CPTSD. The last thing anybody needs to see is knock, knock whose there making a mockery out of these insidious predators?

    People’s lives are in ruins, they have nowhere left to turn, they have had their entire family and friends turn against them, some are in financial ruin and bordering suicidal. Some like myself have lost people from suicide as a direct result of narcissistic smear campaigns, lies, gaslighting and other bastardry committed against us.

    There is apparently a lot of trouble with narcs landing and stiring strife on other sites causing mayhem where they can. I consider this a safe site moderated by non CD moderators. Apparently there are sites operated by narcs in order for them to continue their predation. This isn’t one of them. The reason I have continued to come here is to support my fellow survivors and be here to support others in need. Healing is needed and nobody is defining how another person should heal – there are no right or wrong ways here. However, when a person is in serious trauma they need support and urgent advice. Not humor and crass comedy that isn’t even funny.

    If you really consider it, it is no laughing matter and is far from it – it is the epitome of aiding and abetting narcissism. I didn’t come here to give aid and comfort to the enemy. I wish to stamp it out of existence not excuse it or deflect from their egregious and predatory natures by making light of it because it will only end up empowering them in the end. I doubt anybody on this site went through all that trauma in order to empower their abusers. Don’t dig yourselves because that’s effectively what you are doing.

    1. I landed here through a circuitous route. Your seriousness is ‘heavy’. It’s full of suffering. I’ve suffered, too – 28 years, and humor is what saved the day. I had the best therapist on the planet and we laughed and laughed, often with tears streaming down my face.

      I don’t have a problem with your opinion, but I think people can fend for themselves even if they are shell shocked when landing here. It’s a great place, and much to be learned in the comments! You are attempting to impose a ‘rule/attitude’ that does not apply to everyone.

      Humor can be wonderfully healing because it creates a perspective that is outside of feeling like a victim. Even if you have to laugh about the absurdity of it all, as mentioned above!

      Humans have well developed humor capabilities and should use it whenever possible.

      1. Ocean Girl,

        I think laughing helps one get rid of that tightness in the chest, get rid of some of the anxiety and stress. It’s a release.

        1. Lucy,

          Yes, laughter is so important. I have to tell you, I was so enthralled in my thinking I walked into the mens room and yes, it hit me, he was standing there, I screamed and he turned around and I screamed again. Yes, I saw it all………. The poor guy was in as much horror as me, I ran out of there so fast.

          Everyone was looking at me and I got the heck out of there and went straight to my car.. I started to laugh so hard I ached all over. I have laughed for the last few days, it was so funny… Guess what, it was an immense stress reliever. I don’t advocate it, but as of this writing am laughing right now. I am thinking that poor guy had to come out of the latrine and everyone was staring at him. Sure wished I could apologise.

          1. I wish I’d have seen that. O laugh so hard sometimes I tear up and hurt, like you say. Then afterwards am relaxed and tired.

  11. Eudox and others
    I can’t believe any harm was done by simply by referring to a knock knock joke. I’ve been traumatized as have so many others but still there is always room for humor and a giggle. This little comment /joke has taken A life of its own And shoud not have. I think too much has been read into it. Humor has an important place in my life. It doesn’t mean I’m minimizing or excusing bad behaviors of CDs. I stand behind Sydney. She caused no harm and I found no offensive intent at all. We should not have to be hyper-sensitive to comment here without fear of retribution of making a comment. Just because you don’t find humor in something someone else does does not automatically make it offensive and disrespectful. Cut her some slack.

    1. Lucy you are inferring I am singling someone out akka Sydney? To correct this misperception – NO I am not. My comment was made to everybody on this forum and I will not allow myself to be dragged into a dispute I don’t have – there is a name for that. My last comment, and it was intended to be my last because I had said my peace, was directed to EVERYBODY on this forum which is was why it was addressed To All. I thought it was clear.

      For the benefit of this forum I am going to say this once again and for the last time. Narcissistic abuse is no laughing matter – to make jokes about these malicious predators is making light of other people’s (not to mention our own suffering) at the hands of these soul destroying freaks. It only benefits CDMNSP when they are reinforced by victims joking about their own abuse – how poignant and how ironic. That should give them sufficient incentive to keep up what they consider to be excellent work.

      It is offensive and it is disrespectful particularly to those who are still in trauma. That is the reality of the situation. Please by all means show me somebody who thinks narc abuse is hilarious because I don’t personally know of one. Any stand up comedians doing narc jokes?????? Nope not in my sphere of the world but I’ll guarantee you it’s coming.

      I was not criticising any single one of you. I am genuinely concerned for my fellow human beings who are in the process of being abused, recovery or otherwise for having their hearts and souls ripped to pieces by these inhuman monsters. I stand perfectly alone on this and I do not need to recruit allies to support what I consider to be a moral and ethical undertaking. I will make no apologies for being a decent, caring human being with compassion for others.

      I do apologise if I appear to be lacking humor, but quite frankly it’s just not that funny. Jokes can come later when this narcissistic scourge is purged from our planet and we can all crack a beer and celebrate because right now we are in a war zone and they are everywhere.

  12. Thank-you Lucy and others for your support. If humor is my light in this world of CDs then let there be light!

    Eudoxia, I would never presume to speak for “everybody else”.

    exit stage right.

  13. What do you call a narcissist who is buried in the ground up to his neck?

    A good start.

    There are hundreds of these narc jokes out there!

    1. Oh come now Sydney – that was the 40,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean joke. I certainly wouldn’t blame Lucy if she laughed at that, just shows you have to have an outstanding sense of humor in order to deal with devastating loss eh.

      Anybody got anymore jokes?

  14. Without using the label, ‘narcissist,’ the disorder has always been the subject of comedy. For starters, look at Warner brothers cartoons…Daffy Duck, Foghorn Leghorn, for starters.

    And lawyer jokes? Aimed squarely at a profession rife with maneuvering, manipulative weasels.
    “What’s the difference between a Narcissist and a catfish?
    One is a scum sucking bottom feeder and the other one is a fish.”

  15. I think it’s really important to be able to laugh when you can and also to accept that the culture is becoming more narcissistic, alluding to Eudoxia’s and Dr.Simon’s point of view. You can accept that as a fact and fight the trend by rising above it, being loving and retaining humility — while being more aware.

  16. Hi Guys,

    As the week-end is approaching I thought I’d share something I hope is beneficial to all of you guys, I’ve listened to this several times over and it helped me exponentially. Sometimes we um and ah about contacting our abusers for whatever reason. This is not a good idea. Think no fly zone. I hope this link provides some very good reasons why. It is entitled How to Stop Seeking Nurture from the Betrayal Source by Jenna Ryan – 3 parts entire link below.


    NEVER NEVER EVER – it never ends well.

    Have a great week-end

    1. I think of re contact with the CD as again opening the door to abuse. That’s all it will ever be – abuse. Why do it? There is no hope for a kind word, a nice conversation. If it’s not outright abuse it will be covert

      1. When I had a CDN parent at home, and then was bullied at school, often times over that, amogst everything, I then also was getting everything about me mocked. My first name, my last name, my accent, my appearance, I was fat, ugly, crazy, I ran funny, my clothes were weird. I was weird. Bullies come in a hundred thousand forms. It is our culture, no kidding!

        1. JC,
          When I was young I went to a private school, even though my father was an alcholic and a CDN he wanted for us to have a private education. Talk about the pecking orders in these schools were obscene. I was taunted as I had to wear glasses at an early age. They called me Four Eye’s, it really hurt me, then my dad told me the story of sticks and stones and the words he spoke I played over and over in my head. The kids were telling me a lie, I knew then I could believe it or dismiss it. I told them my glasses gave me the power to see things they could not see, Jesus wanted me to have my glasses and put them to use seeing through them into their hearts. You know when I told them this they shut up.

          JC, always remember beauty is within one, its their kindness and authenticity which makes one beautiful. My role model for love and kindness is mother Theresa, she gave all of herself, all of her life dedicated to God and helping mankind. She by no means is attractive, but who and what she was inside made her radiate a beauty one can only acquire when love comes from the heart and is bestowed on another. She worked all her life in India with the unwanted poor.

          When I see an example such as Mother Theresa I put away all those childish hurtful treatment and words, they mean nothing. We have the power to shut these hurts from out, I don;t let anyone touch my soul. My soul is for me and God. As for my heart, I am very cautious of who I let touch my heart.

          JC, learn to through that garbage out, memories like that from the past will only eat you up. You are now the Captain of your Ship, don’t let the ghosts from the past ensnare you and bring you down. For many years my mantra was “Jesus I Can” and it worked.

          Stay on the upward path and grow, be the best you can be. The past is the past we cannot change, don’t let it suck your positive strives and accomplishments away. Live in the here and now, make these the best years of your life. and go NC with the past. I guarantee it will set you free.

          It is wonderful when you post you have grown. Read the book be the author, Dr. Scott Peck: A Road Less Traveled, I believe you may gain a lot of strength and understanding from this book.

          Be kind to yourself and Gods Blessings be upon you.

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