Transcending Guilt and Shame

Guilt, Shame, and Character

Folks with significant character disturbance lack sufficient capacity for guilt or shame. That’s because they lack a well-developed conscience. Guilt of course, has to do with feeling bad about something we’ve done. And shame involves feeling badly about who we are. Disturbed characters often do things that injure others.  But they neither feel badly enough about what they’ve done or how it reflects on them.

For years, experts told us it’s okay to feel badly about something hurtful that we did. But they also told us it was never okay to feel badly about who we are. Guilt, they claimed, can make us want to do better, and that’s okay. Shame, on the other hand, supposedly only damages our sense of self-worth. It had to be avoided at all costs, they insisted. But years of clinical experience and mounds of new scientific data argue otherwise. The right kind of shame in the right doses helps build good character. Persons of real integrity care not only about what they do but also about what they do says about them.

 Regret, Remorse, and Contrition

My co-author Dr. Kathy Armistead and I had several things in mind when we wrote How Did We End Up Here? We wanted victims of relationships gone bad to understand what happened to them and why. And we also wanted them to know how to rightly judge when someone is really striving to be a better person. So, we expounded on a topic I’ve posted articles about before. (See: Shame, Guilt, Regret, Remorse, and Contrition.)  You have to understand the difference between regret, remorse, and contrition to know the signs someone is truly working to change. (See also: What Real Contrition Looks Like.)

Mature Character

Caring about what we do and how that reflects on our character can make us better persons. But becoming an authentically caring and responsible individual eventually involves transcending guilt and shame. Mature, spiritually-evolved characters don’t act conscientiously because they’d feel guilty or ashamed if they didn’t. Guilt and shame don’t drive their actions anymore. Love does. And mature love is not a sentiment. Rather, it’s a purposeful behavior, arising out of gratitude for life and the energy sustaining it. Gratitude for the many graces bestowed on us inspires true love. So does gratitude for the many folks who enter our lives as instruments of grace. And when we live in love and act in love we have the power to change the world. That’s because we ourselves have been transformed.

Character Matters

Character Matters will air live Sunday May 28 at 7 pm EDT.

My sincerest thanks go out to all who will be performing America, My Home! at Memorial Day events. Listen to the full rendition on this week’s Character Matters program. And as always, thanks to all for recommending my books and this blog to others.

87 thoughts on “Transcending Guilt and Shame

  1. Great article!
    I have realized I will never understand how someone can not feel guilt for cruel behavior. I’ve always been so overly aware of other peoples feelings that I can’t even fathom the opposite.
    Until my eyes were brutally opened a few years ago I always assumed everybody was coming from the same place as me. It kind of made me a sitting duck for manipulation.
    I’m learning a hard lesson – but I will never understand.

    1. Completely agree. Great article!

      Good mature people do not act conscientiously because they want to avoid guilt or shame. Their actions are based on deeper understanding of life.
      Reminds me of the book Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis.

      My biggest lesson in recent time is same… not everybody was coming from the same place as me.
      One of the worst possible life is to spend a long time with someone who goes by rule: me, myself and I.

      1. One of the worst possible life is to spend a long time with someone who goes by rule: me, myself and I.

        And when it is your own mother. It is very hard pill to swallow. It is our abillity to love that is the reason. It transcends every thing. Much to all of our costs

        1. Joey it’s important to try to understand your mother was probably not intentionally like that. She became what she became because she was ill treated as a child due to whatever reason, abuse, neglect, the primary care giver not being emotionally available. There are any number of factors present. I know that some children of hardcore narcs don’t end up like them but it is entirely dependent on circumstances. I don’t think many of them do actually have much choice, because the damage is done long before that mechanism is available.

          I don’t condone what your mother did to you in any way. I think it’s important for all of us during the healing stage to come to terms with how they became that way and I know sometimes we will never know that. Therefore it’s fairly safe to assume, she was abused.

          After listening to Dr Gabor Mate’s talks on addiction I am quite convinced now that all CD have addict mentalities. He goes right into the nature of proximal abandonment. He goes into great detail about the importance of completing several steps necessary to the correct evolution into adults. Of critical importance is the successful completion of object relations – this is super critical and extremely important to understand, it helped me a great deal in order to work out my own daughter. While I am not remotely ready to forgive her of anything, at least I can now understand how she became what she became. Before it was a total mystery.

          Understanding proximal abandonment helped me to understand a lot. It might help you see your mother in a new light too. The aim is not to forgive or condone her behavior but to understand it and that way you might be able to accept it for what it is or rather see it in a different light. I think it’s a very important stage in our own healing process.

          You have the ability to love Joey – she didn’t. Be forever grateful you are still able to love because that is a beautiful thing. Without it life isn’t worth living.

          1. Joey, Eudox,

            What my X hated most was his mother and aunt, the mother being the lesser of the MN sister pair. In the end He became his Aunt, the greater, what he loathed and hated most in life, in the end he became. It is called generational sin that continues to repeat itself over and over. In the end He waited for, I believe He wanted to hear an apology from his mother which she was incapable of doing, as she thought she was a good mother. I can only assume from my limited knowledge the mother was the same as her mother. A whole brood of of 11 MN were reared to repeat the cycle. Only the last child, the 12th was a kind empathetic humane being.

          2. My mother was 54 yrs old when her mother died( my grandmother). She lived with her parents almost her entire life. My uncle abandoned
            my grandmother when he was 17 yrs old. The same year my mother married my father. To say that my mother SOB SOB, was a victim. Bar humbug. She and her mother were vicious and hungry for power.
            I think of them as I would any disease such as meningitis and as such should be kept in quarantine. I see clearly the process that they CHOSE to implement. They were ruthless connivers. My mother and grandmother robbed me of 46 yrs of my life. My crime was to be born. Any one can change. They just got more covert and callious

      2. Andy D – I think we all make that same mistake. We are good at heart and assume everybody else is at least until they prove otherwise. The problem is it’s generally too late by the time they prove otherwise. We have spent years of trying to untangle an ugly mess we hold ourselves at least partly responsible for making until the spell is broken and we finally work out, it isn’t us at all. Then we realise we were nothing but a living blood bank for a vampire whose quest for blood was never ending and all consuming.

        The sad fact is that CD are nothing but empty vessels full of hate, emptiness, malice and anger. All we ever were to them were ever suffering service providers of supply which they craved day and night. Their drug of choice was our life force. Once we accept that fact it allows us to break free from of their perverted addiction.

    2. Dear jean
      I too assumed everybody felt the same feelings as us. Like you, this left me totally open to be controlled and manipulated by a narcissistic sociopath for 20 years. He is still trying to put me and our two sons through hell to punish us for finally seeing through all the gaslighting and having the courage to leave. Like you, I will never understand how these people cannot feel remorse or guilt for their cruel actions.

      1. I was blind during all but the last few years of a 41 year marriage. He told me I had no friends, that I bored people (yes, he actually told me this many times ) and told me my therapist said hurtful things about me that she never said. My therapist caught him in those lies and confronted him when I was there – it didn’t phase him to be caught lying. He always had an excuse.
        Sadly, the main reason I stayed is he did destroy my self-esteem. I felt like such a loser and that I was lucky he stayed with me.

        1. Jean

          I really hope you now know you are incredible, loving, worthy person. Shame on these **** for doing what they did to you and many of us here on this site.
          Now that you are divorced and away from him I hope you’re enjoying yourself, your life.

          1. You’re amazing Jean, and an inspiration. To have come through this in one piece after all those years.
            I too had my self esteem stolen. For years I was told I was fat and ugly (I weight less than 8 stone). If I made comment to his remarks he would say I was too sensitive and if I didn’t like his ‘honest’ comments then I should do something about it. I remember him saying to one of one sons “looks at your mummy’s fat back… it’s disgusting isn’t it?” Who says that to a child!
            Like you I was told I didn’t have an true friends. He tried to keep me away from family and friends so I would ‘need’ him more.
            Well, no more. He can no longer hurt me with his poisonous comments.
            And sadly I believe these individuals most certainly know and understand the damage they do with how they treat us. They are weak, pathetic, spineless bullies who prey on trusting individuals to prop up their own lack of self esteem.
            I prey I NEVER make the same mistake again.

        2. My Mother/Grandmother Did the same. My brother is 4yrs older than me. He was sent to London to live With the Father. I was Smothered and Engulfed. When ever I tryed to Build or make anything I was attacked in some way. My sence of self worth was Quit low. I Still cannot argue my Point of view.

          1. There is little point of arguing your point of view Joey because we will always be wrong. This is their stock and trade – belittle, demean, tear down any authenticity or originality within us. Disagree with everything we like or with any point we make. Constantly badger us to conform to their dark and distorted world view by sacrificing ourselves in order to have some peace and harmony which never comes. It’s always Jam every other day with these assholes. They are nothing but pernicious parasites of the highest or rather lowest order. I’d rather be covered in leeches than in the presence of one of these energy vampires.

            They want trained circus monkeys who pay their evil deeds homage. They are sick, twisted, perverted individuals and in all seriousness they should be eradicated off the face of the Earth. Well we have to do that and the only way to do that is starve them out of existence. With the vast amount of information available out there now then it looks like WW3 will be between the empaths and the CDs.

            We can’t let our guard down because they are everywhere. We must fortify our boundaries and let nothing tear them down. We are all Luke Skywalkers and they are all Darth Vaders. May the force be with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. We move towards love and maturity, as all of creation leans towards the light, not because we are running from guilt and shame.

  3. When the DC’s commit crimes of abuse or other bad deeds. They must be controlled by a Self serving , Self preseving paradigm. In part they must make a conscious choice to Lie,Con, Cheat or Steal and to Hurt and Harm.

    1. Joey – they don’t know any other way to be in the world. Apparently it works for them so they continue to do it. When they get caught red handed what do they do? Lie, Con, Cheat, Steal and Hurt and Harm some more – it is their only mantra. They will continue in this tyranical reign of terror until we put a stop to it.

      1. I agree. We as nerotics are driven by mature love. Which I would call Respect.
        The DC’S Have No Love and Therefore NO RESPECT. TheyJust Make People Jump. It is that last Snidey,malicious,humiliating and Hurtful Harmful act.
        When they talk through you or over you, cut you off in mid sentence. That last remark that put’s you down or someone you admire down.

    1. That kids eyes say it all eh. There is always something pure evil in the eyes of psychopaths. Their eyes say nothing at all. If you really look at them they are just empty vessels full of menace and and malice – the eyes of envy.

      The vulnerable narcs get another look and there are two specific looks – the first is “the injury look” that’s when they squint their eyes like little slits and glare menacingly at you. The other one is the “I won” look. This is when their eyes get a weird glint in them when they have had a good dose of negative supply, you have been completely drained and they are sitting there with that glib, smug look. That’s the look they get when you could knock their heads clean off their shoulders and it takes the patience and restraint of a Saint not to at times.

      Cat has just joined me for his morning ritual. He comes in and has to walk all over my keyboard as is his habit. I am convinced cats are narcissists too :-

      1. The SB womt even look at me, after 30 plus years of marriage, and I do want to knock his head right off his shoulders

        1. Hi Lucy there is something wrong in the comments notifications I’m getting this came into my email box as this comment coming from Linda?????

          Okay that’s odd makes you think he’s got a guilty conscience but we know that’s not possible. All I can say is don’t knock his head of his shoulders best not to anyway no matter how tempted LOL because it is tempting. If we did that then they’d give us that glib, smug, nah nah nah nah nah smirk because we’ve just given then a big hit! They are nothing but supply junkies and that would give the SB great satisfication! Starve the beast and let it die a natural death.

          1. Eudoxia

            SB would like nothing better than to see me lose my cool so he could promptly file criminal charges and shout to the world “See! I told you she’s crazy!”

            I don’t know why the name is coming up in your box. Hopefully that will straighten out.

  4. I have read many of Dr Simon’s posts and listened to his YouTube videos.
    He says that CD people know exactly what they’re doing. Yet my husband insists over and over again that he is not at all a controlling person. I am convinced he really cannot see that the things he does are wrong.
    So what about that? Could some CD persons really be that unaware? Or am I that easily duped???

    1. Junie,

      Who in their right mind will admit that he/she is a controlling person? 🙂

      You may want to read blogs on manipulative tactics used by character disturbed people. The underhanded way they go about meeting their selfish goals at the expense of others. If you husband systematically indulged in those underhanded tactics instead of placing direct requests, then he most certainly is what he claims not to be. Obviously, he cannot give away his game by confessions.

      1. Some CD persons whose behaviour has “neurotic” roots, are not aware. But, such people make an effort if significant other points out.
        Most CD persons whose behaviour has narcissistic and aggression roots, are fully aware. Such people will be adamant (and very very confident) in their denials.

        Watch the actual behaviour. Do not go by words.

    2. My own take on what you have experienced, is that you are dealing with a Grandious and Entitled Man. He is not controlling as far as he see’s it. He is ENTITLED TO TAKE. From Entitlement comes EXPLOITATION. Which is what you are experiencing.
      Warning :
      If they are not Given this privileged treatment. You might be punished in some way. Character Disorders and Malice

  5. Junie did you confront your husband about this? That’s never a wise thing to do unless you know exactly what you are dealing with.

    The one thing they are all very good at is lying. They are Class A liars extaordinaire and they have no qualms whatsoever about lying right to your face. They are all aware they are different but as far as anything wrong with them – HELL NO they transfer all their faults onto us. They know damn well however what they are doing is wrong but they will twist and contort everything. Given they consider us as nothing but extensions of them there to serve a purpose only – and that is getting their needs met. CD did not complete object relations and are therefore still stuck in a child like state, that of the demanding toddler and it’s obvious by their behavior.

    I would suggest you understand as much as you can about these people and keep it to yourself until you have worked things out sufficiently. Depending on the type of CD he is it can be extremely dangerous for you to let on you are onto him. A good portion of them are pure evil and will stop at nothing to destroy you and everything you love. To take on one of these depending on the specific type is like trying to kill a vampire without a stake. Tread warily because they are very capable of totally destroying you and turning all your friends and family against you.

    1. Eudoxia
      That warning is well warranted. And if and when you decide to divorce this man, you will need much preparation before you make the move

      1. Innocent people pay the ultimate price by thinking incorrectly they are like them not realizing what they really have in front of them is the Antichrist. No they are not like the others meaning people like us. The CD are totally INCAPABLE of negotiation let alone reasonable negotiation.

        They will always make YOU WRONG when even hardcore undeniable facts to the contrary are present. The are unbelievable.

        You know what would be interesting to witness. Is if one of these SBs where put in front of at least a handful of people who knew the whole truth and and had been on the receiving end of their abuse and actually held them to account. They’d have to be tied to a chair I reckon. Then their heads would start to spin and we’d all get covered in green vomit! But it would be worth it because I think the injury would be just too great and they’d blow a gasket.

        1. “if one of these SBs where put in front of at least a handful of people who knew the whole truth… and actually held them to account. They’d have to be tied to a chair I reckon. Then their heads would start to spin and we’d all get covered in green vomit!”

          The closest one can get to above is cross-examination of SBs in court when there is loads of hard evidence against them. 😀

          1. Ha! We will be doing depos next week and trial is July. I can’t imagine how he will try to explain away the hotel bills. Up to seven in one day at multiple locations. This is TV drama material. I think he may have a heart attack. Not even kidding …..

    2. I will say confrontation will expose the cracks. But, better is to just protect your boundaries, and most often that alone will expose all the cracks from a safe distance.

      Completely agree with divorce part… when a character disturbed will show all his/her nastiness in its full glory. If divorce is a good possibility, then tread carefully, protect your interest, and only then declare that you are filing/considering divorce because one sided relationship is draining you.

      1. Oh Andy, ain’t that the truth! The one I am married too is showing all his nastiness whilst I am trying to divorce him. Really really nasty too. I’m still shocked to how low he is prepared to stoop to make me pay for having the courage to leave him. He didn’t want me, but clearly thought I was out of order leaving him. He cannot deal with the fact he can no longer control me or our children. Even my solicitor has said in all her years in the business she hasn’t quite seen anyone yet as nasty and vindictive as him… or as arrogant… but incredibly stupid too. He still thinks he is above the law and is clearly not listening to his solicitors advice. This will be his downfall hopefully.

        Today I had my first counselling session. I’ve been on a waiting list through a local charity (my divorce means I am haemorrhaging money so couldn’t pay private counselling). And it is time to lay some ghosts to rest and sort the stuff out my head before this man does irreparable damage. My GP tells me I have PTSD. I thought that was just affected war veterans stupidly. But no, 18 month ago I left with my boys, and I still have nightmares… hopefully all this will one day be a thing I’d the past.
        Fingers crossed. Be good to hear I’d anyone else has been able to recover, and give me hope. X

        1. *left him, and took my boys with me… not left him with my boys (God forbid!)* thought I better clarify that!

          1. DevonTaffy,

            Below is a link posted by Joey to a YouTube by Dr. Simon. This link will give you a connect to all the others You tubes by Dr. Simon. I would highly recommend you watch these and will hopefully help. The interviews are great as they will give you insight to who Dr. Simon is as a person. I hope these will be of help to you Devon.

            Joey July 31, 2016 at 2:43 pm


        2. DevonTaffy
          Your story and husband sounds so similar to one. Word is my divorce is the worse at the courthouse ever ( and I work there – embarrassing). The SB keeps going lower and lower and still refuses to admit to his wrong doings. Just lies and denies. I too was treated for PTSD. the treatment did not work for me – I actually found it annoying. I would wake up screaming at night for quite awhile Thank goodness that had ceased. I’m no longer angry every day. It took two years for the intense anger to subside. The intentional lack of humanity and decency he had towards me, and sabatoging my future – through dissipation of assets – is a hard reality to deal with.
          I hope you have success in court. I know what you mean – the court costs are debilitating. It sickens me to see my hard earned money spent having to fight for what’s rightfully mine
          I feel like I’m at war.

          1. Like your ex, mine is most definitely trying to sabotage my future. He said once he ‘will make me pay’ for leaving him. And he will make sure I end up with nothing.
            Well he pleads poverty my not declaring his true income (self employed and not paying anywhere near enough tax) so he uses that to justify not paying maintenance. But bank statement show he paid a huge amount of cash in to his personal account. But he refuses to justify this to the solicitor. He current partner (the one he denied having an affair with bit admited adultery with?!?) is a very wealthy woman. So expect she is paying his legal fees. She has the life style he has always aspired to npbe part of, that he has always felt ENTITLED to, but I think it cannot be good for his ego to be living in HER house, with her paying for everything.
            It’s so frustrating that he blatantly lies about everything. And I mean everything. It’s almost that he believe his own bull****. He even denies sending emails when copies of the emails etc have been produced from the solicitor. He still denies it! He denies sending our sons text saying things even though we have screen shots etc. Why lie when there’s hard evidence. I really don’t understand that at all. But I have come to expect it with absolutely everything.
            There is absolutely no contact now except through the legal team. This has definitely set me on a path of freedom. It was certainly the biggest turning point on this whole journey so far.
            Thank you for your advice and support. It is ssooooooo appreciated. Xxx

  6. Devon you have gone through trauma – intense emotional trauma. BTOV has PTSD also as a result of her enduring a considerable amount of grief. Everyone on this blog has experienced very painful and intense emotional trauma. Yet we all found our way to the docs blog and many of us are in recovery, we are survivors not victims. Devon you will heal. You will find it in you to do so. You have the strength and the courage. You have support here. Please make sure the therepist fully understands the CD better known as Cluster B Personality types. This is of paramount importance for many reasons but the main one being you don’t need anyone to tell you to look at your own behavior and the the things you did to him in order to MAKE him do what he did. That is the last thing you need to hear right now. Avoid people who wish you put you on guilt trips for being married to a psycho. Do not bother, and I mean DO NOT BOTHER to discuss your predicament with anybody other than 150% trusted allies who all know you and know your character. The CD are quite capable of turning entire groups of friends and members of your own family against you. Get a hold of all the docs books in particular Character Disturbance, Judas Syndrom and as many as you can afford. Understand what THEY are. Understand them intimately.

    You have been your SBs primary source of supply for years, they don’t like it when you take that away from them. It’s no different from stealing heroin from a junkie. You can expect on onslaught of such magnitude it will be off the Richter scale. You can safely bet he will attempt at every available opportunity to make you look like the crazy one. He will stoop at nothing in order to do this. You will see true evil now. Strictly NO CONTACT rules. If you ever have to meet with him for legal purposes or if a mediation session is called for example only speak through your lawyer. It’s also best if your lawyer knows exactly what you are dealing with.

    In the meantime you have to heal yourself and deal with the pain that’s left. Your self esteem will have been severely depleted and you will have to bring yourself back into alignment. Unless you have done a lot of self work and know your own shadow this aspect of yourself unchecked will keep you locked into suffering. You have done nothing wrong Devon and you have not bought this on yourself. However, in saying that we all have false beliefs about ourselves that just are not true. One of the best things you can do for yourself at this time is understand yourself. MAN KNOW THEYSELF. It’s a journey and a marvelous healing journey to find the authentic YOU. It’s important to know all your “blind spots” these are deeply unconscious beliefs we have about ourselves but certain environmental factors trigger these blind spots within us and cause us to react in untoward ways and cause us to regret our actions. This isn’t good enough when we are dealing with the CD. We have to remain absolutely calm and present under all circumstances and this is easier said than done. You have to have the patience of a Saint.

    You can bet your last breath your SB knows every single blind spot you’ve got. He will have used this against you and knows how to push your buttons so to speak. This is why it is crucial you identify and understand how your “blind spots” impact on your behavior. This is a top priority Devon. I can’t begin to tell you how important this is. If you don’t know your blind spots he will use this against you. He would have been doing this the entire time you were together and became an adept at it. They operate as an internal hidden enemy. You need to disable them by identifying them and understanding how they operate. Once you do that, they will eventually lose power over you. They will still be there but by understanding them you take control of your own behavior not the other way around. This is how you fortify your boundaries. A good book for indentifying your own schemas is Emotional Alchemy Tara Bennett Goleman.

    Because you have been on the receiving end of a monster and have been emotional tortured by this freak for so long your reality has been severely distorted and messed with. If you are entering a crucial stage of the battle with him – assume you are going to battle with the Antichrist himself it’s this serious, in fact you could not be in more serious situation. This is probably the most serious situation you will ever be in and I cant reiterate that enough. You need to be on the ball. Right now you are PRIORITY NO 1 you can’t be there and emotionally available for your boys to the best of your ability if you are still battling inner demons. Kill them first!

    Support is right here. Speak to nobody if you don’t trust them. I am not a Christian but I will quote from Mathew : “Do not give that which is Holy unto dogs, do not cast pearls before swine. For they will trample them under their feet then turn and rend you to pieces” Wear that on your heat and let it be your mantra. Trust nobody but your nearest and dearest who KNOW YOU WELL and who would ever be turned against you and even be wary there. The demons are about to reveal themselves now and you will soon know who they are. That’s okay because you need to know who they are anyway. Let those who are filthy, be filthy still etc………….. People like that you don’t need in your life. People of good character can’t be recruited as a flying monkey by your SB, know what they are because he will try to smear you. You can pretty much conclude he will leave NO STONE UNTURNED in his efforts to totally and mercilously destroy you.

    Devon the journey has just begun, it’s a time of great purification, when you come out the other end you will be all recalibrated, shiny and new. You have a wealth of support available right here on this blog. The seasoned veterans and survivors of CD abuse are here and know what you are going through. In the interim I suggest you listen to some Lisa A Romano and Merridith Miller UTubes, they contain good healing modalities to assist you. There are many. Also and this is important, he will do everything in his power to get to you through your boys and will do everything in his power to turn them against you. You need to get right on top of this sooner rather than later and above all under no circumstances let onto him you know about his condition or he’ll get even nastier and will up the ante considerably.

    Keep posting God speed and may the force be with you!

    1. Deven
      You will reach the point where you’re able to predict his moves, his actions. You’ll begin to think through issues with him in a twist that he will do such and such if you do such and such. It’s a really bizarre way of thinking, because we are dealing with abnormal people who always have a twist to all scenarios. It’s these twists that we have to protect ourselves from. I’m having difficulty describing this but I think you get the picture. I’ve become really good at projecting and avoiding outcomes using my “critical SB thinking ways “. They ALWAYS have a twist to position themselves on top – always. It’s all strategy with them.

      1. Sadly it’s the only way. You have to “think like them” and beat them at their own game. It’s simply a matter of “out drawing” them, because at the end of the day it is ultimately between the quick and the dead. I suggest everybody watch that movie with Sharon Stone – OR cutting them off at the pass works too but you have to be real quick for that. Fortunately I’ve got a vulnerable narc to practice on and I’m getting pretty quick on the draw -evil grin-

        1. I watched the gal at the title company beat his game. He was pulling something at the last hour before signing contract and I have her a heads up. She said she had a former BIL like that. Oh she was good. She got him.

        2. Devon,

          I am so sorry you have to go through this. These CD ones seem to be literally crawling out of the woodwork . Truly, it is sad to say in order to detach from the CD, you will need to understand how to think like them. It’s a tiring game of hopping between normal adjusted thinking to seeing through the fighting dirty, hitting below the belt and back stabbing the CD will use. You need not use the CD tactics just know the rules of his game and the true game and adjust the pieces accordingly.

          I don’t know all of your circumstances but at all costs protect yourself. Keep a journal of everything, times, dates, etc., and have as little contact as possible with the CD. Put everything in writing. All the CD wants to do is engage and cause oodles of paperwork, attention and cause you misery. The CD will never hear what you have to say only what they want to hear and that will become his truth and will use it as the truth. It will enrage him that you are unwilling to play in his sandbox.

          I would not discuss the CD with anyone, unless you know you can absolutely trust them. Not to frighten you, but a sad fact is our own family or people we thought are/were friends will say or do things innocently or not so innocently. Be careful with your children also, as the CD will use them to get information and get back at you. It is also a known fact they will use the children and even set the other one up, by fabricating lies.

          I don’t know what the laws in your area are, so be careful. Getting detached from the CD is difficult. The less contact you have the easier things will go, the more contact the more drama. Try to keep it simple by NC and put everything in writing.

          I hope you keep posting, there is a great group here that has gone through similar situations with the CD and will give you all the support and knowledge they can from their experiences.

          Read the blog and archives, prepare yourself. Above all don’t share this information with the CD or start telling everyone the knowledge you have gleaned. Keep this to yourself. The CD are chameleons and they will project who and what they are unto you. Never underestimate the CD, there are lesser and greater CDMN out there and depending, you may be out of your league. Always deal in truth, honesty, dignity and respect and above all distance yourself.

          Take care and blessings

          1. Thank you so much for all your advice and support. I have gone No Contact now since last September. Well, that was a turning point. It gave me breathing space, although he absolutely flipped out. Mediation session had just started (a necessity in the UK prior to court). But I insisted that these were done in separate rooms following a hideous first mediation with us both together. (He controlled the whole thing, pushed my buttons to upset me and make me look the neurotic ex wife whilst he stayed calm and emotionless but totally charming to the mediator. All a game which I can now see through, but couldn’t then) . Since that very moment I went No Contact. He sent a barrage of nasty email, even to my work, saying I was pathetic not to sit face to face with him. He hated that I took back some control obviously. He was told all emails were to go to my solicitor so I then blocked his emails and phone messages. That’s when I saw his nastiest side. But for the first time in months I could check my emails without the gut wretch I got feeling I would have something from him. I also no longer dread hearing from my solicitor, worrying what he is going to do next. I am fighting for what’s legally mine to provide a future for our children. The judge will see that so I’m not frightened about what he does anymore. He contact with his children is minimal as he’s not interested in them anymore. When he does see them he tries to fill their heads with his poison. But they can both see through it – I guess that’s why he’s lost interest in them.

            I continue my legal fight. It should be going to court for the first hearing shortly. Just waiting on a schedule. He’s doing everything he can to drag it out and be as obstructive as possible. He still has not provided financial disclosure (surprise surprise).

            I will take your advice and this will give me strength through all this. X

    2. I’m going to fight this man with every ounce of strength I can muster. I owe it to my boys and myself. I feel stronger than I did 12 months ago, and that is helped enormously by people like you, giving advice, support and understanding. I felt to alone for many years feeling everything was in my head… but it was all real… I am angry about what he put me through… but totally relieved that I was not going mad, as he had me believe. I will NEVER let someone control me like that again and make me doubt myself. I’d rather spend the rest of my life alone than lose myself again, if that makes sense.
      I will keep fighting as I am now gaining strength, mentally and physically. Thank you for your support x

  7. Btov Just For You

    It Takes Courage

    It takes strength to be firm,
    It takes courage to be gentle.

    It takes strength to conquer,
    It takes courage to surrender.

    It takes strength to be certain,
    It takes courage to have doubt.

    It takes strength to fit in,
    It takes courage to stand out.

    It takes strength to feel a friend’s pain,
    It takes courage to feel your own pain.

    It takes strength to endure abuse,
    It takes courage to stop it.

    It takes strength to stand alone,
    It takes courage to lean on another.

    It takes strength to love,
    It takes courage to be loved.

    It takes strength to survive,
    It takes courage to live.

    1. Joey,

      Thank you, so encouraging and full of deep thought. I have been at a rather low spot and it takes immense strength to pull oneself up by their bootstraps, alone, and overcome as you well know. Rejection from the world is not an easy road coarse.

      Your many kind words of validation, understanding and encouragement are truly appreciated. We have both come a long way.

      Hugs and many blessing Kindred Spirit.

  8. Rejection from the world is not an easy road coarse.

    I have pieace of advise. It is Called F***k ’em. They are an inadequate loser that cannot face up to who they really are. That is why they con,lie,cheat,steal,hurt and harm us.

    it takes immense strength to pull oneself up by their bootstraps, alone, and overcome as you well know.

    Look at YOUR OWN WORDS. YOU ARE AWARE OF WHAT IS WRONG AND YOU,YES YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You have the Courage to except and deal with it.
    My therapist David( god bless him were ever he is) said it does not matter how we move forward. We can take pigeon steps BUT WE ARE MOVING FORWARD. When we greave a loss, the final part is exceptance. ( I have reached this point) When we reach this. We can in part, move on in some way.

    1. I just don’t think I have reached Acceptance yet.
      I should have because it is now so obvious all the lies and gaslighting that he did – but for some reason I am still grieving. Occasionally even feeling guilt. What’s that all about?
      I moved out 2 1/2 years ago and the divorce was final 8 months ago – I know I made the right decision – so why can’t I just move on?
      Maybe because we are married for 40 years and it’s all I’ve known….

      1. Jean acceptance will come in time and it is likely it will happen suddenly. It did for me and many others have reported similar. It’s like a bolt from the blue. At some stage the penny drops and you will have a big AH HAH moment.

        Deep down you are possibly still holding onto hope of things becoming normal again and that person showing back up all fixed, shiny and new. This will never happen because that’s not what he ever was from the get go – it was just a mask. That’s the realisation we have to accept. Not that the relationship is over but there is some remote hope things will get better. We can torture ourselves endlessly looking for clues we might have missed to change the diagnosis. Jean – there aren’t any. It’s that simple.

        The CD are black hearted murderers. They are soul murderers. They are evil incarnate in human flesh. It doesn’t matter how they were made, created or born it is what they are, it is what they are, IT IS WHAT THEY ARE. And Jean they love the skin they’re in. They have no problems raping your soul over and over and over again. They will stop at no Ungodly lengths to bring you into submission to their agenda – which is to completely turn you into the monster they have created for you to be. Those are the shoes they want you to fill for them so they can be Gods, Kings and Queens in their psychotic reality. The only way can they stay on their thrown is to continually put you down, to degrade your character, to malign you, to slander you. You are nothing but a lowly serf in their eyes who deserves immediate punishment. In reality they are just transfering their own black hearts onto their victims/targets. YOU blow their saintly cover, you know their halo has not only slipped but they never had one to begin with. You know this.

        Who in their right mind wants to be around that, let alone delve into the regions of insanity where, through false hope, we can assume we can save or help this human cancer in any meaningful way. Not possible. They don’t learn from their mistakes. NEVER. We would have better luck walking backwards to the moon than to ever hope a CD will repent, show any type of remorse or sorrow (unless it is feigned so as to move in their favor). Don’t fall for it because as soon as they are back in their comfort zone the abuse will start again. In racing it’s called ODDS ON and as sure as the sun will rise every morning so will their treachery.

        1. eudoxiajones – thank you. Your message makes so much sense and helps me. He did hate me for what I am – he hated me for being a nice person. Seems really strange to say that But it is the truth.

          1. Jean,

            Eudox, and Devon have given you good advise and right on target. Yes, he did hate you, he envied all that is good in you which he lacks. These are evil people and their ultimate goal is to destroy you. To steal your essence of your spirit. So many have lost there way and are now empty vessels and slaves to these sick perverted blade runners. They truly aren’t human. Know and never forget it is the truth.

          2. Sadly it is the truth Jean. You are right about the reason he hates you too. Myself and few others believe that CD are dark souls. As they have no divine connection, connection to higher consciousness, God source/Great Spirit/Holy Spirit call it what you like, they are empty vessels. They have an unsatiable need to fill this void within them. They are dead and empty inside. They can see we have something they do not. They don’t understand this it seems. They only see it in terms of them NOT having it and that other people seem to respond in kind to it/us. Therefore they must take it from us. They are envious. Because we are good natured and kind and caring individuals they must berate and tear us down in order for them to feel better about themsevles. It’s soul rape. They must bring us down to their level in order for them to function. This is what makes them evil. They are nothing but dark souls with black hearts.

            They feel ripped off; they think they copped a bad lot in life, the short end of the stick. So not wanting to suffer alone, they seek to not only destroy that light within us but to destroy everything we love. To kill our own unique individuality. To make us totally subservient to their needs and bend to their will. They are dark, sick, twisted, human stains and that’s the truth.

            This is where acceptance comes in Jean. Allow your true self to shine through, allow that brilliant compassionate, caring, nurturing human being you once were to live again. It’s time to be Jean again.

            Our Deepest Fear – Marianne Williams

            Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
            Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
            It is our light, not our darkness
            That most frightens us.

            We ask ourselves
            Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?
            Actually, who are you not to be?
            You are a child of God.

            Your playing small
            Does not serve the world.
            There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking
            So that other people won’t feel insecure around you.

            We are all meant to shine,
            As children do.
            We were born to make manifest
            The glory of God that is within us.

            And as we let our own light shine,
            We unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
            As we’re liberated from our own fear,
            Our presence automatically liberates others.

          3. BTOV – blade runners – good call! That movie had a very profound ending. It won’t be ending as well for the CD. It’s just my gut feeling. In the end they’ll get burned up by their own envy and hatred of all things good. One day they might actually wake up and see their real selves in the mirror staring loathingly back at them and die of shock. Now won’t that be a nice new day :-

        2. I am wondering… do these people with CD envy those of us with that feel emotions such as love, guilt etc… or do they pity us?
          My ex always said I had too many emotions, that I was unhinged because of them (mental was the insult that was thrown around more often than not).
          As an example… When my youngest son was 10, he was rushed to hospital to have an emergency MRI and multiple neurological tests (that In total took 14hrs) as they suspected he had a brain tumour. (Thankfully not, it was a problem with his eyes). My ex CD didn’t seem to comprehend why was so upset when I rang him at work to say we’d been sent straight to hospital from the opticians and were awaiting two brain surgeons to see us. He said I was typically over-reacting and over emotional and didn’t see a need to come to the hospital (he is self employed so he can leave at any time). Both myself and my son could have done with emotional support (now I see how ridiculous this was). However, instead I got a barrage of abuse to how this was typical of me just trying to ‘control him’ by getting him to leave work for something ‘trivial’! TRIVIAl! He didn’t seem to have any concerns for our son at all. When both my son and I returned home he didn’t even ask how things went…
          do they really have no fear either? I really don’t understand how their brains work…
          so do they envy us? Because I was always mocked for having emotions…

      2. I am sure acceptance will come one day. 40 years is an awful long time, it’s half a life time. I think it will just take time. For what it worth, I think you are right jean… you are still grieving. Grieving for the relationship you should have had, deserved to have. I know I am. I grieve for the husband I convinced myself I he was, not the one I now realise he was. I also think we feel guilty and ashamed for this happening to us. I know I do. But in time I hope to accept that this wasn’t my fault. And it wasn’t yours either. You’ve had 40 years of your life with someone… it will take time to adjust no matter what those 40 years were like.
        Sending you a big hug x

        1. Sometimes I think I suffer from Stockholm syndrome. He wanted me to believe I was unloveable – that he was only person that cared about me – but he was cruel to me.

          1. You have a capcity to feel emotional pain HE DOES NOT.
            He was never whole or healthy as a person should be. All they can be is cruel, because thats all they know.

          2. Jean,

            I understand how you feel, the pain can become unbearable. It was over 30 years for me and many times it is hard for me to wrap my head around what has happened. It has been six years and I still have my moments. It takes time, for some it is a short time and for others it takes longer. Take it at your own pace, not what others think or say. I always hear, “Oh you will get over it, now is the time to move on.” Easy for another to say, when they are not you, or have walked in your shoes.

            The most important thing is to keep gaining knowledge and understanding. You are lovable, especially, in our family here. Our Lucy, constantly, worried and asked about you and wished you well. So know you are always accepted here. I know we cant see each other, but in our communications we are Kindred Spirits and that we all feel. This connection crosses oceans and around the world.

            Talk as much as you want, you will never be rejected here. Our bodies have been filled with toxic waste for decades and it will take time to vomit out all of the diseased waste our bodies are filled with and rejecting. You will find it cathartic the more you vent and vomit out the waste.

            Many years ago when my brother died, I found understanding in a book I read a by: Elizabeth Kubler Ross on Death and Dying. I can relate this book to the death of a marriage, I believe it is even more difficult to get through as the person is still alive. In the book there are
            five stages of grief – elisabeth kübler ross
            1 – Denial. Denial is a conscious or unconscious refusal to accept facts, information, reality, etc., relating to the situation concerned. …
            2 – Anger.
            3 – Bargaining.
            4 – Depression. Also referred to as preparatory grieving. …
            5 – Acceptance.
            Elizabeth Kubler Ross Grief Cycle model, five stages of grief in death …

            Please check this book out, it may help you. All stages don’t happen at the same time, it is different for all people. I had a difficult time with anger, and still do. I just couldn’t and still can’t get angry at him. He has brought more grief and destruction on himself without me having to have anger. I just pity him and think what a waste. However, I will never forget, nor, will I ever have contact with him or give him quarter. These ones are toxic killers of life and spirit.

            Jean we need, all of us to find our way back and take back ourselves, our true selves, our authentic selves. It truly is a unbelievable journey, full of pain, truth, growing, maturing, opening our minds to our authentic thoughts, wants and needs. Know who you are, take the journey, it doesn’t matter your age, what matters is for you to take back your true self.

            Look for peace, joy, anything, I know this can be hard to do, just one little step at a time. Our precious Lucy told me when I was stuck in the loop, to do just one thing, even if it was 5 minutes to do it. Lucy, in all her grief and what she is going through gave me the thought, the tool, to go forward. Joey always sends and writes beautiful poetry which makes me smile and feel cared for. Know you can find some peace and happiness here and perhaps Joey could write a poem just for you to brighten you day.

            Jean, we were lost and now have awakened to an ugly reality, we also now are free to make our reality, the one we never were allowed to freely have. Reach out, I am so happy you are posting, we learn so much from each other. Thank you for sharing.

            Hugs and blessings to you, fellow Kindred Spirit

        2. Devon and Jean you need not be ashamed at that happening to you and for a very good reason. The CD particularly target empaths they do this consciously or unconsciously depending on how aware of their predatory, murderous natures they are. Like some empaths are more highly attuned to their empathy than others this is too the case with CD but they either tuned consciously or unconsciously to their own dark side.

          Empathy is fuel for CD and it is highly prized fuel at that. If they latch onto an empath they’ve got the cream of the crop. They spotted, targeted, subdued and subjugated you so they could siphon off your goodness. That’s what they want to destroy. The do it because they envy it. They envy us. We will be everything they can never be and they know it! Their malice runs deep my friends, I can tell you.

          Here is another key. If the CD don’t know they actually envy us and many of the unconscious ones don’t then they are acutely aware of something they secretly resent about us – this is envy unrecognised. They are just hell bent to disagree with us on every turn and steal our thunder so to speak. They steal our joy or rather kill it because they are envious of it. Say you are painting the kitchen and you’re deciding on colors and you find one that looks really good. In their heads is a message that goes along the lines of “oh she thinks that color is so great, yes it does look good it should have been me who spotted that, and she’s so proud of it, it seems she’s getting some sort of satisfaction out of making me feel inferior because she thinks it so nice – I’ll fix that” They see everything as a form of assault on them. Having no empathy they don’t relate to pure joy or love or anything of aesthetic value and they don’t want you to have it either. According to their sick perverted minds, you have to share their darkness, their lack of joy, they want you in the bottomless pit with them and I will guarantee you they will end up chosing the color and it will be atrocious and probably something you don’t like.

          They must win at all costs. Then they will smirk and have a na na na na na I got you moment. The are losers. They are vile, they are thieves of joy and happiness. Because they don’t have it they must steal it from you. And they get some sort of perverted sense of reward for their effort – this is supply and it’s what they are addicted to. You were a source of supply to them, nothing more. NOTHING MORE. That’s the reality we have to come to terms with. But also know they are so practiced at the art of deception, flipping the script and various other strategies in order to make you feel like you are the bad one that it defies logic and you could write an entire book on the subject.

          In reality you were under a spell – the spell of your own goodness. Then the evil wizard came along and held you captive and started to control you – it started gaslighting. Because you kept looking for yourself it’s why you stayed so long in that relationship. Staying power means you have meaningful endurance one of the 4 crucible points of balance (google it).

          You see what I discovered I did, the error I made, particularly in my last intimate relationship was seeing in him attributes that I thought we had in common. BUT he didn’t have them at all! We see in them what we have in us and it was what initially attracted us to them to begin with. It was a major wake up call and AH HA moment when I realised the good qualities I saw in him were non existent because they were all mine! They mimick us. They were mirroring us! We were unconsciously projecting our virtues onto them!

          That is the hook they get us on. We kept trying in vain to bring out something in them they never had. What they did was steal our identity and kill it, they replaced it with the real them. They psychotically switched places with us in one of the greatest personal swindles / stings of all time! They became us and made us become like them (in their eyes). You were married to an incubus!

          Ladies, do not be ashamed of yourselves, under any circumstances. Be comforted by the fact you actually fell in love with yourselves. Not in a narcissistic sense but in an aesthetic sense. You were under a sort of dark love spell. Not that your love was dark, it was pure, it just was not in them and you continued to search for it thinking it got lost. This is the metaphor of The Wizard of Oz. Do not be ashamed to have searched for what has been within you the whole time! You were just fooled. You were under a spell. Well that spell has now broken and you are free.

          May I suggest you get out a movie called The Tin Man. It’s a re-vamped version of The Wizard of Oz you might see it in a different light -wink-

          Now it’s time to nurture and love yourself (again not in a narc sense). Rescue your soul and allow that pure love to live again. Nurture your mind, body and spirit because they have been searching for you too.

          Blessings and hugggzz to you!

          1. Eudox,

            I think the real relational abstract occurs due to the true release of our love for another. It is difficult and confuses the mind when this love is returned in a like manner. The subliminal brainwashing that takes place over a period of years is far monstrous compared to the overt.

            It is rather obvious in many relationships but when covert and subtitles are involved it burrows deep within ones being without the awareness of the host. The parasitic tapeworm isn’t noticed by the host for many years. The game is mastered and played very strategically. This is where the confusion of mind is overwhelmed and overloaded with questions. Insufficient evidence is lacking and therefore easier to blame oneself.

      3. Take your time it will come soon enough. The point I came to is that if I could not move forward tthe life leach mother/family will have beaten me.
        As I posted before Just F***k ’em. They are the loosers NOT YOUR GOOD SELF. They are the one that lies,cons,cheats and steals. They have to, because they cannot face up to WHO THEY TRULY ARE. You were lied to manipulated and deceived. Some people are just good at impression management.

      4. Jean/BTOV



        Out of the night that covers me,
        Black as the pit from pole to pole,
        I thank whatever gods may be
        For my unconquerable soul.

        In the fell clutch of circumstance
        I have not winced nor cried aloud.
        Under the bludgeonings of chance
        My head is bloody, but unbowed.

        Beyond this place of wrath and tears
        Looms but the Horror of the shade,
        And yet the menace of the years
        Finds and shall find me unafraid.

        It matters not how strait the gate,
        How charged with punishments the scroll,
        I am the master of my fate,
        I am the captain of my soul.

        I have posted before But it is a good one !

        1. To All

          Joey, your timing was perfect, reposting this awesome work by Henley with Dr. Simons topic, blends everything together in harmony.

          I just read about Henley, what an incredible man and role model. It humbles me to read this mans journey, at the same time Henley leaves such an immeasurable impact on humanity for posterity. I am going to memorize this and use as my mantra. I am the captain of my ship.

          Joey, please keep reposting this poem from time to time for others who come and go. Depending where we are at at the time, it may not have the effect the poem just elicited from the readers. It sure hit me this time, especially, when our Lucy pointed those few incredible words out. “I AM THE CAPTAIN OF MY SOUL”

          NEVER – EVER – FORGET – THIS

          Thanks again, Joey, you have a profound gift and always seem to know when to give that special touch of words, bringing joy and tears, touching the depth of soul.

          Lucy, I am deeply moved by your words too and thank you. We are all in your corner. (((Hugs))))

          Thank you all of you Kindred Spirits, you all have touched my being, I am deeply moved and will forever be changed.

          I am not Neurotic, I am a Highly Sensitive Person…………………


          1. AndyD,

            You have been very quiet, how are things going with you?
            I am sure everyone is wondering too?

            Take care and be well

          2. BTOV,

            I am just keeping up with blog & comments.

            Now getting more into routine. As a matter of fact, one of the task that I am actively working on is writing a draft of written arguments against one interim application. 🙂

            I think I am at the emotional stage somewhere between Depression and Acceptance.

          3. AndyD,

            If I may, I have gotten stuck in depression too. Try to get outside and get as much sunlight as possible. Walking several miles or biking, breaking into a sweat. This can help release an enormous amount of built up stress. Stress , frustration, anger build up and cause depression. I know, I have been there.

            I decided everyday to walk and then I am going to get my bike out, play music you like and try to think of happy times. I know it is hard. I just don’t want to see you sink deeper. I know these things are more difficult for a man. Sometimes a therapist or a support group of sorts is good. Just to regurgitate and vent will help immensely. Make sure you eat right and take some supplements.

            Thanks for checking in and letting us know how you are. Know that we are all here for you.

            (((Hugs))))) Kindred spirit and be well

          4. BTOV,

            I think depression part is just 5%. So, in general I feel much better since last year, than what I felt in last 4-5 years.

            I do need to increase activity level, but mainly for improving general physical health, to manage 10+ KM mountain hiking from 3000 m to 4000 m sea level that I may undertake after 3 months or so.

  9. Eudox, and Jean.

    Well said Eudox and love the poem, so very true. I see you have the gift Joey has. Yes, Yes, Yes, the CDNMSP are after our very souls, the essence of humanity, of who we are. The CD can’t stand that light of life we have. In many cases, they the CD can obtain that light of soul we have, too. They are consumed with entitlement and conceit, it isn’t their inability to acquire a soul but the refusal to acquiesce and humble themselves to one greater than than their ownselves and that is God the creator. And by that I single out no ones God, I mean everyone’s God. What you actually see in the CD is the distortion of being ones own pitiful demigod!

    Jean, I don’t know how old you are, I imagine about my age. I thought yesterday, if I don’t take care of myself, its now or never. Please don’t give up your self, fight for your being, he still has his claws in you. Please try to detach and grab hold of you, the beautiful and caring Jean. Six years ago I left and still grieve, hearing your grief, reminded me of me. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing, your sharing made me realize the paralysis the CD can induce. I will not let anyone steal anymore of me “Ever.” Today, I am going to fight for me, like Joey said, F____ them, they love to see your grief, and wallow like satiated swine in your sorrow. Don’t allow it, instead let the CD see your joy, your happiness, your loving nature to be free, be good to yourself and do all the things you always hoped for. You don’t need him to make your dreams come true.

    Jean please keep posting and vomit out that sickness, you are a wonderful person and these years, my dear, can be the best years of your life. Hearing and feeling your pain, helped me to get up and say “I know I can do it.” Jean I know you can do it too, it may take time but you can release these feelings too. Stay with us and join our family here, we care about you and want to see you grow and flourish. Be patient and in time, your time, it will come. Yes, you will have many scars and for now we will deal with the open wounds you have incurred, we will help you as you have shared and helped us.

    The major battle is over and that took strength of character and determination. It also fortitude, guts and courage to go through the battle. Knowing you have these precious attributes I know you can pull through in your time.

    Jean, in time doors will open you never knew were there, hang on and live just one day at a time.

    Blessings and Hugs dear one.

  10. To All,

    These recent posts are tremendously insightful and helpful to me understanding myself, understanding SB, understanding the whole circumstances involved in being tied up with a CDN.

    What I really want is to be totally free of the SB. I’m done with him (emotionally. legally is another shit storm in itself.)

    What’s been helpful to me also is the man I’ve been with for the past two years, during this divorce storm. He has shown me what a good hearted, honest, caring, man/mate should be, and that, yes, they do exist. I’d been so used to being ignored and tossed aside, and I still have my old ways of low expectations coming from other. The other day, I had my sick grandson and he’d had plans to go to a big party, which I was fine with him going. I’m used to doing most things by myself, without assistance. He cancelled his plans, said he wouldn’t leave me alone with a sick child. I’d have never expected that, so used to being along even while I lived in the home with SB. I still have low expectations, but am getting the best of care from my new man. He’s taught me what decent human beings do in relationships, they take care of one another, look out for one another, say kinds words and do acts of love, to make the life of your love easier. That’s what I’ve learned.

    1. Lucy glad to hear you are happy and with a NORMAL man!!!!!!!!!!! Good things come to those who wait. You won’t know yourself once the divorce is final you finally get rid of SB once and for all.

      It’s a very profound healing journey we are on when we realize we’ve been living with the Antichrist. I think from the ashes will rise the phoenix. Because the CD are such demonic, chaotic and destructive forces the healing for us is even more profound. We really start to appreciate beauty and connect more fully with gratitude.

      In all honesty I don’t see it as wasted time with these assholes. I see it as an express lane for faster evolution of yourselves. Think of the SB as a blessing in disguise. You will be able to pick these SBs out in a crowd now. By having those short, sharp shocks I experienced, and despite the treachery of the first, the duration all up was about 2 years with two separate groups and I had 5 CD in total – lucky me. Something happens to us during the processing stage and it’s something pretty miraculous. The Phoenix does rise again and I’m glad to see yours has Lucy.

      Bug huggzzzzzzzzzz Lucy and HIGH FIVE TO YOU!

      1. Eudox, Lucy

        You are so right about this. If I had not gone through what I have experienced with the CD’s all my life and there were and still are many waiting in the wings, I wouldn’t have the stamina to deal with them. I have to say, yes, it did make me a better person.

        Whenever, they start spewing their excrement, since they can’t latch on, I just blow if off and walk away. I do listen and remember what the CD say as it usually is something detestable on their minds they are planning. In this it give me the knowledge to stop it in its tracks.

        Yes, it is very painful to go through all this, but taking it all and turning it into a positive in my life makes me a better person, not a bitter person. All of this makes one realize how beautiful life is and it isn’t the man made materialism. Rather its the beauty of creation, seeing and knowing like minded spirits, the world around us minus the concrete zoo.

        Above all, I will not be leaving this world without having had the opportunity and truths I now have to know and be my true self, in that same manner I look forward to getting to know others of the same mindset.

        Lucy, I am thrilled for your happiness, already out of the carnage, the fire you have escaped. When the fire finally burns out, there is always new growth. You will see. I am seeing. We all have gone through so much, the knowledge we have gleaned is priceless and with that knowledge we are able to love and help others see the CD in this world. A loud sounding voice in the wilderness.

        SB I believe will implode and possibly drift off into his la la land of the King with no Clothes, wallowing in self pity, drinking and drugging in his pathological addiction and marriage to his true lover, himself. The marriage of ME, MYSELF and I………

        The ending, the sick triangulation will be “Till Death do I part.”

        For us Lucy we are free, free to be. Yes, I believe I will find happiness with another just like you.

        ((((Hugs)))) and many, many, blessings to you.


          This Link is Heavy Rock Music; It is not to everyones taste BUT please just read the lyrics. It is very much part of what WE SHOULD ALL NOW BE THINKING, give it a chance. I love it it makes me want to just say,
          F**** You.
          I AN’NT BEAT YET

          1. Joey
            That is how I felt today. SB now represents himself in our divorce and he questioned me at our deposition. Imagine that …. And the court reporter asked that I sit next to her. Which was directly across the table from SB. I caught myself leaning way forward at the table as if wanting to get in his face. Then I’d pull back. It became quite interesting. My attorney said I did good. He personally insulted her several times and she had to walk out the room to constrain herself. I’m so used to the barrage of insults that it barely phases me anymore. I’ve become hardened to it. But I will tell you I am not the same woman I was two years ago who would avoid an encounter. He will not get by with his bullying of me ever again. I know I’ll have to keepy cool on court , and I will. But yeah I’d like to knock his head right off his shoulders.

        2. BOTV
          I also believe you will find a good hearted loving mate. Heck, even a good friend for a roommate is wonderful. Doesn’t matter same Alex or opposite sex. But a good friend /companion to help each other out is priceless, not to mention the fun and laughter one can have with a good friend.

          1. Lucy

            I have said this before. If you want to play a game. JUST SIT TIGHT AND WAIT UNTILL HE LEAVES ; AS HE IS JUST ABOUT TO LEAVE THE ROOM ( the door is open and he is about to step through it in order to exit, timing is crittical) JUST CALL HIS NAME, and WHEN HE LOOKS STRAIGHT AT YOU, JUST SAY BYEEE, SMILE AND WAVE AT THE SAME TIME. ( you must look straight at him, Full EYE CONTACT)It Will destroy him, he may reached with abuse, BUT THAT IS HIS PROBLEM

  11. I remember when I was having some health issues and she told the doctors (while I was unconscious), that I had a “thought disorder,” and when I confronted her, letting her know it was hallucinations and delusions, that it had resulted in antipsychotic medication? “I AM SORRY!” Somehow, I don’t buy it. Anyone else would have meant it when they said they were sorry. New home, now, people are seeing what they haven’t always before, because after severing the relationship, I have been able to be validated-by law enforcement, by providers here, but friends too. That helps. What I do notice, is that I still repeat that I am sorry, and do it without meaning to. I think folks around here do understand now.

    1. JC – that’s because you were always apologising to that creature who calls herself your mother your entire life. I recommended a book to you in another post called Emotional Alchemy – that will really assist you with the unconscious need to apologise for everything you do.

      There is a new book that I have just stumbled onto and it’s called Co-dependents The Dance of the Wounded Souls by Robert Burney. I have not read the book but intend to. I am not co-dependent but I believe anybody who has suffered extensively from narc abuse will benefit from this book. It’s got some impressive reviews and to a certain extent we are co-dependent in certain areas. Particularly with gaining other’s approval. It took me a good while to figure this out myself. So I am going to order it and will let you all know how I find it once I’ve read it. But please take a look at it for yourself.

      I’m glad to see you are in good hands JC it is paramount.

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