Some Manipulators Enjoy Toying with You

The Spectrum of Manipulators

Manipulators come in several varieties. That’s because character disturbance exists along a spectrum. Some people manipulate relatively unwittingly. (They have some degree of conscience. So, their unconscious defenses keep them in the dark.) But some manipulators know exactly what they’re doing and why. These folks are more purely character-impaired. They lack conscience, and they lack heart. And while most folks manipulate for practical purposes, some do it for pure enjoyment. Some characters simply like toying with you.

Psychopathic Manipulators

Malignant narcissists lack empathy. Empathy deficiency lies at the core of psychopathy (alt: sociopathy). (See also: Malignant Narcissism: At the Core of Psychopathy.) And manipulators with psychopathic characteristics can manipulate for sport. For such folks, toying with others is fun. It also makes them feel powerful. And it makes them feel superior. It can also give them a “rush”

When it Gets Truly Sick

Some psychopaths have sadistic features as well. Such folks enjoy making people suffer. They especially like to watch others grovel. It makes them feel powerful. And it makes them feel superior. Their adrenaline peaks. They experience a sense of elation. Some can even experience a type of sexual excitement.

A Person’s Empathy Level Says it All

Psychopathy exists along a spectrum. So, you know how malignantly narcissistic someone is by how heartlessly they behave. When decent people know they’ve hurt you, they feel bad. But some folks have no heart. To such folks, you can be merely an object of desire or gratification. The way they see it, you exist for their satisfaction. So, they expect you to take whatever they dish out. And if you complain, they only see you as a weakling who can’t take it.

Folks devoid of empathy will hurt you without compunction. While they might possibly have regrets over consequences, they rarely display genuine remorse or contrition. They lack the conscience. And they lack the capacity for shame and guilt. Your partner’s empathy capacity reliably bespeaks the toxicity of your relationship. So, how they act when they’ve hurt you tells all you really need to know about their character. (See also: Shame, Guilt, Regret, Remorse, and Contrition).

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83 thoughts on “Some Manipulators Enjoy Toying with You

  1. Psychopathic emotional sadists can start out infatuated or obsessed with you. I believe the monster who mentally tortured me was genuinely interested in me at first. That doesn’t mean he ever actually cared about me as a person. He did enjoy my utility as somebody he could communicate with and as an object who adored him.

    When he became bored with me and realized that there wasn’t going to be any monetary reward, he arranged things to maximize the pain I would feel upon his ‘sudden departure.’ He was planning it for a couple of weeks ahead of time. I did nothing to hurt him — had only loved him whole heartedly. And, in the end that was the beauty of it for him, even after infatuation wore off, I was still useful to emotionally torture.

    I would never have known he enjoyed this had I not read emails he had written to someone describing his delight in my suffering. Along with these revelations to this woman he included stories from my childhood I had never told many of my closest friends because they were so personal and almost embarrassing.

    He encouraged me to write as much about myself as possible to him as a form of adjunct therapy, while I was receiving help for PTSD and then he spread what I had written around to others. This is a man who treated me with what looked and felt like total love and devotion and undertstanding for close to two years. The last few months were totally manipulative.

    I can’t think of a worse monster. I couldn’t have been more shocked if he had pulled a knife on me.

    1. LisaO,

      I am so sorry you had to experience this, one is at a loss for words to describe this type of betrayal. You see he did pull the knife and stuck it deep into your heart and then slowly turned it. When it is physical, you can see it, when its emotional, mental murder, its as if you are losing your mind, it is so outrageously incredible to wrap your head around. Unless someone has personally experienced what you describe it is impossible for them to understand this raping of the soul. I am sure he is heartbroken he was unsuccessful of your soul murder.

      I am glad you made it through and thank you for sharing your story.
      Hugs and Many Blessings Kindred Spirit

    2. LisaO,

      I wanted to be sick when I read this, as my mother has done the same thing. Everything I shared with her, and in trusting her as my mother, she has shared with anyone and everyone she wanted to. I witnessed a mass shooting at the age of 19, and she also told everyone she worked with “for support.”

      Then when I was dying (and over a period of 18 months) of an untreated chronic oral infection, for which my family was stuck with the bill (due to “changes in healthcare,” it was also that I have reason to believe that it was not as she said that my father was the holdout and that she paid the bulk of the money for it. I was so incapacitated as every body organ system was shutting down, and was I totally out to lunch mentally, try psychotic. At the time, the “system’s attitude was “Go take your mental meds”. And though there was nothing that could be done during that time, was I taking an antipsychotic for anyone else’s benefit? Not on your life. But out to lunch as I was at the time, there was little to be had in the way of coherence.

      I was also emailing her at the time, and it had been brief. I come back to check it, and it was a “CC” of a forward to everyone in her contact list. To my brother, she writes, “I actually got a coherent email from her.”

      My reply was this, “The problem when you talk behind someone’s back like this and do it via email, is when you accidentally send them a copy.” It was a “REPLY TO ALL.”

      I always wondered if there was (minus a sexual one, obviously, but never know) some kind of enjoyment out of this, now I know that there was.

      That is sick-mentally, and on her part.

      In their infinite wisdom of the US government, who in God’s name gives this person a gun permit???/

      1. What is difficult to believe is that there is someone who had any enjoyment of any kind on doing this to someone, let alone their own child. She held out when that stuff easily should have killed me.

        No one wants to believe it that someone they love (and to whom you explained the terms of “Thought disorder” being hallucinations/delusions), and have them use it against you. Once you admit that it is the case, the last person you want to be around is the person who has caused more suffering for you than anyone else.

        Toxic.

  2. Btov,

    Thanks for being so incredibly kind and understanding! Like you, I am making what I learned from all of it work for me and others, not against me and the world. Unlike the manipulators we live in a world of ‘us,’ not Me,Me,Me.

    The self that disdains bonding as a predilection or brain anomaly (or a bit of both), is a tragic thing for all. The self contracted to a tiny point, thrashes about spiritually, trying to expand by stealth where it cannot (or won’t) truly connect.

    And after that purple prose I have to add for balance..what pathetic sacks of s*** they are!

    Thanks Btov, for responding to my autism/psychopathy question, too! Hope you are doing so much better with your family these days!

    1. LisaO , Joey, Eudox, Lucy, AndyD

      Thank you for your kind words Lisa and thank you Joey. You have all shared many of your stories and here is part of mine. I understand Lisa, as I posted a few years back how I was sexually assaulted, I wont go into details, but it was bad, so were several other women assaulted by this Spath fiend. So you see I do understand how you feel it was just a different set of circumstance.s It happened 4 times and no one in higher management due to this Spath’s position would stop him.

      Instead I refused to give up my job and became a whistle blower, did that backfire, I was the liar, the instigator and so were the other women. Turns out they got caught watching porno movies on the TV in the Lobby of a Federal building caught in the act by a customer. This they couldn’t lie out of, so I thought. An internal affairs investigation was done and so much evidence was compiled and with the testimony of several woman the Spath was allowed to resign pending charges. That meant he got to keep all his pension and accrued vacation and sick time. Mind you he is a high ranking official in the Government and was transferred to a different area of the Government.

      Instead of protecting the witnesses they came after us full force and me being the most vulnerable they came after me. Little did they know I would fight for my job rights for 7 years in Federal court Pro-se. They tormented me to the state of ultimate fear and during this time, sent death threats, followed my daughter and made my life a living hell. Wala, PTSD. I have nightmares still and severe startle response and just seeing Vacknin renews what I went through in the past. The pompous arrogance of the Spath.

      When I come in contact with someone with cigarette and coffee breath combined I will turn all clammy and break out in a cold sweat. He tried to suffocate me. My symptoms aren’t as intolerable as they were years ago, but one has body memory that works against the mind memory. Also the nightmares come without warning.

      I know several other Spaths in my life and none of it is good. I have let go of the fear and even released them to Gods judgement, however, I have trouble getting angry, when I see them smiling and gloating and admittedly verbalizing I am a nothing, I say banish them all. Can you imagine the injuries Vacknin did to all the families he swindled money from. How dare he, how dare the perpetrator turn his crime against me. Sadly, but true they do turn it all around on us, first they rape us and then the system finishes it. Very sad indeed.

      I know the Christian thing is for me to give it to Jesus, and I have. The thought that always crosses my mind is how many others he has assaulted.
      since. It is something very difficult to heal from.
      Thanks everyone for all your support and kind words.

      1. BOTV

        There was no justice for you. That’s a hard one to take. You, the victim, turned out being taunted. This is why so many people just back down, don’t report, because why? You fight the fight and BOOM you’re screwed anyway, not believed, lose money, lots of it, lose time, get run down, and for what? The Powerful and rich will win. They break us down till we can’t fight anymore. Getting into the fight you don’t realize it’s going to be extreme as it ends up being. You can’t believe the injustice. But it’s certainly there.
        Just coming out of the system I’m clearly angry and disappointed. I can’t afford justice. It costs too much money. I’ve got large debt fighting for justice, didn’t get it, and now am worse off.
        And I don’t forgive. Never will. I hope to eventually “let it go” but that is somewhat impossible when one is still feeling the effects of the CD. And still having to deal with the SB, because the divorce is not totally wrapped up, he still hammers me every chance he gets. And why? Because like JOey’s mother (she doesn’t deserve that title) and his GM, they enjoy it. Pure and simply enjoy harming. If there is a hell, these people will surely go there.

        1. Eudoxia,

          ♪♫♪ What the world needs now is love sweet love, not just for some but for everyone♪♫♪

          Great song! Thanks.

      2. This totally reminds me of that movie called “whistleblower”. That lady was a hero in my opinion but she has been blacklisted & shunned by our government & others. All so they could profit from the trafficking & enslavement of women & girls from war torn countries in Europe.

    2. Lisa O & BTOV:
      Yes I’ve read all three of Dr. Simon’s books. The 1st one I read many years ago & it was life changing. I have recommended it to several ppl throughout the years. I’ve also followed this blog for maybe 8 or 9 months? I’ve posted before under other topics. I have a 24 yr old daughter who is disabled, a 17 yr old daughter who is CD, & a soon to be 6 yr old daughter. My oldest also has twin boys who were born the same year as my youngest daughter & they live with me too. So the twins are my 5 yr old’s nephews but they’ve been raised more like siblings. I posted months ago about my narcissistic 17 yr old & how she causes so much chaos. I got some very good advice here too. I’m just trying very hard not to repeat the mistakes I made when my CD daughter was young. I feel I unwittingly contributed to her being how she is but I did become aware of my mistakes & tried to correct them. Unfortunately it seems the rest of her world was against that so it’s been an uphill battle ever since. Im hands off at this point as long as she is working & continuing to go to GED classes.
      It’s time to get the kids in the bus so I have to go. Thank you for listening. Have a wonderful & hopefully non- chaotic & undramatic week.

  3. LisaO, Lucy, Eudox, BTOV, Joey and Andy
    I’d like to thank-you for sharing your experiences, it saddens me to read about so much pain but I’m also in awe of your resilience and wisdom. I don’t think you realize how much you have helped me along the way. I come here everyday and gain insight. You are the good in people.

  4. Genuine question.

    …and WHY are they like this? Why do they lack a conscience? What’s the CAUSE of this clear abnormality?

      1. No.

        If anyone wants to enquire about the causes, I am here to listen. Understanding causes is good, not understanding causes isn’t. Knowledge is power. To understand, forgive and predict the psychopath, and defend yourself from him, nothing could be more useful than knowing the rationale behind their behavior.

        Of course I have my own answers, I’m simply looking for further insight.

        If you don’t know then shut up. I’m not going to give up my own questions, my own inquisitiveness, my own motivations. I will ask what I ask. I dont care if you think the question is irrelevant. You dont decide what is relevant or not and that is not obvious, its up to personal opinion.

        The king of relevance here is WHY they are what they are.

        Intelligent people want to know WHY. Stupid people dont care. Curiosity is intelligence, lack of curiosity is stupidity. That’s a fact. I say it because modern retarded culture, which is factually both stupid and insane, states otherwise.

        So, why do psychopaths do those things. That is my question. I have open ears. Don’t tell me what to ask and want to know. Only I decide that.

          1. Lucy,

            You are far from stupid, SB is stupid, you are gentle, kind and a loving person with and enormous heart full of goodwill, a real treasure. Remember, when it quakes like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck. Same as a soul snatcher, the Spath will creep in deceptively, demanding, creating confusion, havoc and fear. Crush them from your life, flush them down the toilet and give them none of your precious life force, go Grey Rock . For me, I pray to God to bring judgement upon them.

            Hugs dear one and many blessings

          2. Lucy – can you please not put yourself down. You are digging yourself. Please don’t do that. SB may have ground you to a powder but you don’t have to stay that way.

            Would you please listen to this talk by Jenna Ryan it’s only 11 minutes I guarantee you won’t be disappointed.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-C-7YniduU

            Big Huggzzzzzzz

        1. Hello Cause. I invite you to access the many articles on the blog that provide the answers you seek. Of course, you can find the answers in all 4 of my books, too. I know how important answering those nagging questions is, and that’s the reason for all my writings.

          Best,

          gs

          1. There is a sign down the road and it says

            DO NOT FEED THE DOGS

            Do you think it should be taken it seriously?

        2. Why ? Because they feel inferior to those of us who can & do form connections with others. Kind of like sour grapes – they turn that which causes them to be different into something they despise. Because they can be horrendous & heinous & because society seems to be obsessed with this behavior & awards it attention – (remember any attention is good attention to them) – they continue to behave in more & more disturbing ways. That they can subjugate the very people (ones with empathy) that they feel estranged from is the same thing as a victory to them. But it must be short lived since most of them & their behaviors get progressively more evil. They seem to lack insight & don’t fear prison or jail time. The system is designed with their protection first & foremost & many of them focus their efforts in the interpersonal realm where it’s rarely considered a criminal matter & if it is – it’s next to impossible to prove. They often rely on the shame & embarrassment of the victim as protection against retaliation.
          I could digress without limit on this subject but I hope that will suffice for now.

          1. Rachel,

            Have you read Dr. Simon’s books and articles? There are fear based insecure Narcisissts who feel inferior, possibly. They are overwhelmed by the character disordered who really DO feel superior to others. So a large subset of Narcissists, sociopaths and nearly all genetically hard wired predatory psychopaths really do feel superior.

      2. Joey,
        Samenow is great. Remember too, how the NMSPath walks among us, the troll, most the time they slither on their bellies out of cracks and corners and from under the rocks where their lair resides. When one appears on the seen treating you without dignity and respect have nothing to do with them………… Their great at demanding you become subservience to them. The MNSpath makes the rules and just as easily breaks them.
        You will know them by their fruit and from them get away.

        GIVE THEM NOTHING!

          1. LisaO,

            You sure have that right. We give it none of our life source, it is irrelevant. I love how Joey expresses it:

            Today it is bright and sunny, having a wonderful day full of life and good cheer.
            Thanks for all the kind words.
            Hugs Kindred Spirit

        1. BTOV – you give them far too much credit.

          Starvation sounds good and totally humanitarian too don’t you think :-

          The fact is BTOV they don’t make the rules their own psychosis states they do. They only get to make the rules if WE LET THEM. They are Kings and Queens of nothing but their own castles of desolation. As they don’t deal in reality what’s the point of including them in ours – that’s how I see it.

          How is this for interesting. One day and not so long ago a friend who was visiting had another friend I’d never met before and he was definitely that kind of thing that within a very short time frame registered as not being a part of my reality. I can also speak dog language thanks to the dread locked dog man teaching me how.

          Guess what happened? Both my dogs totally ignored him and they talk to anybody – they are very friendly. They picked up on my cues – body language etc they did what the pack leader did :- Every time they walked past him, both of them not just one – lifted their chins up and away from him literally ignoring him – in dog language that means “you are irrelevant and insignificant, you are nothing and not worthy of my time – you’re not part of the pack”

          He couldn’t even tempt them over with food he was most perturbed by this he did that weird praying mantis thing with his head – it wasn’t computing. Seriously when ever he tempted them they’d look at me and and I would talk to them in dog language and they just put their heads down and not even look at him.

          I went grey rock – my dogs did exactly the same in their way. It was beautiful.

          For anybody slightly confused at this juncture and I don’t blame you LOL – the dred locked dog man his name is Martin McKenna and he was raised by a pack of dogs in Ireland – he ran away from home at age 10 and was taken in my dogs. He learned dog language prior to that as he was a triplet, the runt very sickly and whiney. His mother put him between their two German Shepherds for comfort and he bonded. When he was 10 the dogs were put down as they attacked somebody protecting him. He wrote a book about it and now teaches people how to communicate with dogs. My dogs have been raised in accordance with his methods.

          1. Eudox,

            I agree with everything you said, however the first sentence
            “The fact is BTOV they don’t make the rules their own psychosis states they do. ” From my experience many times they are lucid and not in psychosis and do make the rules, the remaining part of them that is still interwoven with the original person. However, where a huge problem lays is as they age the psychosis completely blurs any resemblance of the real person.

            Many times we lose out power, especially, in domestic situations, however, you are right the true power lies within us to resist and say no, easier said than done. My heart goes out to those who have extreme difficulty breaking away. I never realized how much power I had and never again will I allow anyone to take that from me.

            Yes, Mckeena, you spoke of him before. Your dogs sound wonderful. Thanks for sharing his story.

  5. My the mother was sadistic. She would YAWN and SMEARK at my distress. I spent 4 days in hospital with her, 2 hr before she came round from anisthetic. I was there with her, waiting for her to come round. I took a month of work to look after her when she came out of hospital and for a further 6 months I would come home early from work to make sure she was warm had eaten and was safe.
    She NEVER EXPRESSED GRATITUID for my help. This is when the sadisim occured. She revered my the brother and his breed. Who did nothing.
    I suffered extreme panic attacks, I became agrophobic. My dog was beaten and she tried to poison my liittle dog.
    She left her Meds loose on the table over night, and laughed when she thought my little dog had eaten one.

    Some psychopaths have sadistic features as well. Such folks enjoy making people suffer. They especially like to watch others grovel. It makes them feel powerful. And it makes them feel superior. Their adrenaline peaks. They experience a sense of elation. Some can even experience a type of sexual excitement.

    My the mother was more of a borderline type, but she was sadistic and enjoyed my pain. My the grandmother (HER MOTHER) was the same.
    After spending 24 hrs in a police cell and some days later , I listerned to beegood4000 (JAMES)on you tube. His closing statement was THESE PEOPLE MEAN YOU NOTHING BUT HARM. AT that that moment IT CLICKED BOY DID IT CLICK, BANG,BOOM,CRASH.
    I looked sideways at the mother,with one eye half closed and said;

    ” YOU…….LIKE……. HURTING……. ME, YOU…….LIKE………… IT”
    I still could not believe it, it did not last long.

    1. Joey,

      You did what any normal, person with a conscience would do. At the time things are happening we just don’t understand that these behaviors are their core being. It’s so ugly and nasty we have a hard time believing they truly are what they show us they are. Why are they like that? We will never know. Too much time and emphasis is spent on figuring them out rather than working on having a peaceful mind. That’s what I want for all of us, a peaceful mind, not tainted with the shit that has been dumped on us.

      1. Joey,

        I am sorry all that has happened to you. I Thank you for sharing your story. f I may, you have spoken of jail a few times now, can I ask why you ended up there? Was it due to the Mother? only, if you feel like talking about it. I will watch the James Be Good 4000 You tube later.

        Know this, all of us here who have gotten to know you, care for you deeply, your happiness means a lot to us. Each step forward and every positive conquest you make inspires us to move to a higher plane of acceptance and understanding. You truly are an amazing person and if I may little brother.

        When you find time could you post another of your special poems? We enjoy them so much.

        Hugs and many blessings

        Thank yo

        1. To all

          Sugar and Honey makes me sick
          sugar and honey
          You make me sick

          I have ran out of all the
          sugar and honey to give

          I think its because
          people keep asking for
          more than I can give

          I don’t open the door anymore
          when someone begins to knock

          because I know
          all they want is everything sweet.

          Regards

          Joey

          1. Joey – I know you understand this. This is how I was – I wrote this a little while ago, it was me once and now it’s for everybody.

            A Quiet Word to All Narcissists
            Written by Eudoxia

            I am in a healing space
            You can’t invade me here
            You are not welcome here
            Take your suffering face out of mine
            I did not cause your suffering
            I do not want to look upon you

            You disrupt me
            You send me off centre
            I can and will not be around you
            I need to be in my own space
            Apart from yours

            I deal with myself each day
            I can not take on your pain
            I have my own
            Your pain is your responsibility
            I reject you in all forms you present yourself

            I am not your property
            You are not mine
            You are cardboard cut out
            Surrounded in a body of flesh
            You will not torture me any longer with your crimes of self

            You have no power over me
            You have imprisoned yourself for long enough do not try to imprison me
            You will not imprison me
            You have forsaken yourself but I will not forsake myself
            I will deal with me alone, unencumbered by you.

            No I do not want the lights off
            I find It hard sitting in the same room with your energy
            You are a succubus nothing more
            You killed off your own soul a long time ago
            You will not kill off mine
            Now you have nothing left to feed off
            I am not a banquet, you will not feed off me.

            I wish you peace and I hope you find it.

            Now listen up – Narcissist be gone –flick-

      2. Lucy,

        Years ago my mother would describe my CDN ex-bro as “nasty”. I never quite got to the bottom of it when she was alive but when I saw his mask slide off his face one day it was horrifying. It’s like seeing a monster appear right in front of you and unless you witness it no one believes it.

        1. Hi Sydney,

          I guess your mother spent more time with your brother and was willing to help him sometimes, but not every time he demanded something? In other words, somehow she got between him and what he wanted., and you not so much, so it took longer for you to see the deep nasty. Good title for a book or movie! The Deep Nasty!

          1. Hi Lucy,
            My parents had him later in life, he was an “accident”, I prefer to call him a mistake. They were enablers only because they didn’t know any better. They had had three children before him and none of us are anything like this “dickface”, ( that’s how I fondly refer to him.)

            And yes, my mother would get in between him and his wants but once she told me she hated being alone with him when my father was away on business. I had no idea what they were tolerating, they lived in another city and we talked often but they never said anything.

            I like the”The Deep Nasty” for a movie or book title.

          2. Sydney,

            Is your mother still living? I can only imagine what she went through. The statement that she hates it when the father is away tells a lot.

            The Deep Nasty. Who is going to write this novel?

    2. “Some psychopaths have sadistic features as well. Such folks enjoy making people suffer. They especially like to watch others grovel. It makes them feel powerful. And it makes them feel superior. Their adrenaline peaks. They experience a sense of elation. Some can even experience a type of sexual excitement”.

      Joey that’s called narcissistic supply, they are all addicted to it.

  6. Dr. Simon, I believe The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness.
    I also believe that the epidemic of the CDNSP are what Paul wrote about in Timothy.
    Perilous Times and Perilous Men
    3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

    10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    We are also told to have nothing to do with them.

    Thank you, Dr. Simon for all you have done for humanity

      1. Rachel,

        I am glad you are commenting on this blog and welcome you to continue to do so. It seems you have a good take on the CD and it is always helpful for others to get involved in the dialog and add their knowledge and experiences.

        Yes, I believe Paul summed it all up rather simply and eloquently.

        Look forward to more comments from you as you read the blog.
        Blessings

  7. Sydney,

    You are SO welcome. Thanks for sharing your story too! It’s helpful for all of us, as well.

    Btov, I can’t get over all that you have been through. There is nothing worse than being victimized by a psychopath and then further victimized by a system that protects them. They toy with everybody while forging key alliances within institutions for protection.

    We do seem to have a P outbreak or an MN outbreak, or both right now. They used to be confined more to prisons, now they appear to be running the world– particularly the arts and entertainment end of it.

  8. To All,
    This article describes the X to the core. Psychopathic Manipulator and Malignant Narc. He does enjoy the hurt. He does see as sport divorce litigation, taking everything he possibly can from me. He is such an evil man.
    I believe soon (if this houses closes) I’ll be finished with him. To be rid of him will be like cutting off a cancer. It’s that bad.

  9. BOTV

    I was being sarcastic. I’m not stupid. I can now spot a Spath immediately. Thank goodness for the wealth of information from Dr. Simon’s books and articles and from all the posters that I have gleaned a ship full of information of the attributes of character disordered people and I do believe I will never again be fooled by the fools.

    1. LisaO
      Haha. I always knew the SB would be a difficult one to divorce, but I underestimated greatly. I’ve been through turmoil with this man for three and a half years now, since the time I only BEGAN to find out about his secret life. So yes, there will certainly be a celebration of my freedom when it all finalizes. I’m close . . .
      And I really feel for those who must keep contact because of children together, such as Andy. It’s a hard one to handle.

  10. I new what was going on,from a very young age. The point is “BELIEF”
    Your gut is telling you one thing AND YOU CANNOT BELIEVE IT.
    That is why I use the Term THE MOTHER,THE GRANDMOTHER. The badges they wear. You see your mum, you want to see someone who loves and cares for you. THEY DO’NT.
    My uncle and cousin, worked this very basic fact out very quickly from their teenage years and went NO CONTACT.
    Cut their Mothers out of their lives completely.
    The point is THEY GET BETTER AT THEIR CRAFT, THEIR THIRST FOR POWER. They get better at Hinding who they are and did so to the end. To world at large ” I AM THE MONSTER” Joey is the bad one I am evil. Not the mother,Not the Grandmother,Brother,His breed are all saints. I am the evil one.
    I am not and have never will be bad. I make bad desisions, I am not a bad person. I was Played good and proper, by a CALCULATING AND MANIPULATIVE PEOPLE who happen to be my family.

  11. Off Topic

    When I suffered panic attacks, I was not able to use motor ways/freeways. I drive home on them now. I not quiet there yet. I am getting better though

    1. Joey,

      My mother has BPD/NPD, and the rest, I am not a clinician, so I can’t say for sure, I suspect worse as well.

      Your life for 47 years, mine for 43. I can certainly relate. I have my own issues, but when recently working a program, and having gotten compassion from my father’s side of the family, all of those tendacies I have that are mirrored to me by my mother, are ones I can unlearn, as I have said before. It makes me sick to think I ever allowed myself to act like her, but as it’s been said, these folks, mirror mental illness. And what you do to yourself is worse, in my opinion.

      You have my compassion. I am sorry you have been put through so much by someone who at least in this society is supposed to love you unconditionally, and who is never supposed to treat you like this. Accepting that this role will not be fulfilled by society’s ideal is sad. And commonplace.

      Keep the faith. And stick to your boundary. No contact.

    2. Joey,

      I have seen his stuff. Here is another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F3uPsviO3w

      It backs up Mate’s work. I am dealing with a friend now who has just been crushed by a Borderline. Borderlines are extremely nasty and emotionally weak and unstable, they are totally dysregulated. They are emotionally incompetent. As an ego defense to their incompetency all they can do is project. This is what makes them appear to be totally evil. Evil is effectively an anagram of Live. They are indeed opposite – grammatically speaking.

      Are they evil – NO. Are they damaged – YES INCREDIBLY SO. It can be said by many that all CD are evil. That is one hell of tall argument and leaves out the nurture factor. Without adequate nurture a person has little choice but to survive.

      1. Eudoxia

        I read a profile on some mass shooters. It described how envy and paranoia
        effect CD’S. The profile would you belive it mached some of my OWN MOTHERS BEHAVIOUR. What I can obtain from this was that THE ABUSE I SUFFERED was due to HER INABILITY to cope with her own emotions. Borderline CD’s are like this. Instead of dealing with her Envy or her Paranoia she takes it out on the source of those feelings rather than the feeling themselselves. She Choose to take out all her bad feelings on those around her, rather than control her own emotions. She had no desire to endure any discomfort. Remove the source of the discomfort rather than deal with the discomfort it self. Just like an infant
        I hate to use this word, But it is the truth. I had a Parastic Parent.
        My mother/grandmother were parasites. They lived off my BACK AND OUT OF MY POCKETS, FOR TWO THIRDS OF MY LIFE. They Grandmother did this in part and did let go. Her Slave was the mother. I was the mothers Slave.

        If you want to see what Borderline type CD’s are capable of. Look up Theresa Knorr. PURE EVIL

          1. Sydney & Joey.

            I believe there is a difference between jealousy and envy. I also, believe Joey’s Mother displays both of these dysfunctional thinking patterns.

            One can feel envy about something they don’t have but want, it relates to you and the object you envy be it a person or possession of another. However jealousy is over something you already have but are afraid of losing, like the attention of your child to another person. Or, say The Mother is jealous of Joey receiving attention from another person and building a friendship, she wants him all to herself.

            Its really is sad that the parasitism is passed down from generation to generation. Touche for you Joey, you broke the chain……..

          2. Sydney/Joey/BTOV et all

            Jealousy and envy are different. Jealousy ususally applies to relationships as in being jealous of what another has. Envy is another ball game. It is motivated by malice – envy is wanting to destroy what another has and is motivation for CD to enable that destruction.

            Envy and anger are two of the most destructive emotions in existence today. CD are addicted to their own malice and their brains are a chemical processing plant that pumps out bad neurotransmitters in spades. It is little wonder they are totally incapable of doing anything different. They operate like tornados except their destruction is those who are misfortunate enough to have crossed paths with them. CD are motivated by envy.

        1. Joey,

          I agree with what you are saying and yes some of them are EVIL. I think they need assessment based on a case by case basis. One cap doesn’t fit all in this department. Serial killers are a totally different story.

          It was horrific what you went through and I am glad you are out the other side. I don’t need to bring evil into my life right now by going anywhere near Theresa Knorr – I already know what she did and yes her actions were insidious and despicable.

          1. Joey

            Every single one of them is petty and immature. The level of punishment they met out to others is not commensurate to whatever it was that offended them in the first place and half the time it only existed in their heads anyway.

        2. In Vegas, there was the mass shooting, yes.

          I witnessed one the same thing on a much smaller scale than Vegas, but boy can I appreciate how they feel. In the one I witnessed, there was 5 dead and 22 wounded. Six if you count the gunman (I don’t).

          In 1994, we sued, in part because they so grossly misdiagnosed the gunman (as autistic, so they could justify a discharge that required them to provide no follow up. And we were successful on medical malpractice.

  12. LisaO, I responded thinking it was Lucy, I guess all I saw was an L.

    Lucy, my mother passed away three years ago and my father two years ago. They both died thinking my ex-bro’s “nastiness” was their fault. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have “let it go” but his cruelty towards them in the way of emotionally blackmailing them was ugly. My parents said “you don’t EVER want to make him (dickface) mad”. Oh I get it now. I discovered this site because of him. It was hair raising to read about the person I had to go no contact with before I even new that it was an option or even what he is. I had strict boundaries because of several CDNs in my life I just didn’t realize there was a name for them. Man I feel whole again!

  13. The few times my mother was doing me any favors was actually when she was leaving me to be raised by medical professionals, be them friends of mine, etc, because I am beginning to wonder if the typical narc, she assumes the Safe Haven laws were created specifically to suit her.

    A tip: If you leave your kid at the hospital-do everyone a favor. Don’t come back when it looks good for you to be a parent. It sounds harsh, in comparison to the things (like everything in the book) that she’s said to me, about me, etc? Mild. And honest.

  14. Hi JC,

    Were you diagnosed with a thought disorder/hallucinations? It would be very strange trying to navigate around a rigid, perfectionist Narcissist parent, if that was the case.

    Hard enough to get the proper help you need, without having to deal with a parent whose facade is more important than the substance of their own and their children’s lives.

  15. JC,

    I am curious by your comment too. I think LisaO is asking you some relavent questions and it would help us better understand your story. It will also be very helpful for us to try to help you and vs a vs for us to try to give you well rounded input. I understand how painful all this is and I commend you for having the courage to make a break and work towards becoming whole.

    If I may ask, how old were you when this happened to you? Also, please know we want the best for you, we want to help in anyway we can to grow and be free. It is wonderful you are working to be your genuine self.
    Blessings dear one and know we all want the best for you.
    Hugs

    1. This is only my opinion on a narc and empathy:

      Some of them can be very good…at faking it, but only for a while, the true colors do shine through.

  16. Ana

    In answer to question 1 – No it is not possible – they don’t have it period and never did.
    In answer to question 2 – No but they are deceptive, to everybody else they will appear normal. Their entourage will be treated favorably, they will use others to triangulate. They are wolves in sheeps clothing – a book of Dr Simon’s I suggest you get as it is comprehensive and fairly succinct.

    If your suspect you are in a relationship with a narcissist or any of the Cluster B spectrum disorders I suggest you start to immediately research this topic in depth. If you are involved with a Narcissist, Borderline, Histrionic or Anitsocial personality disordered individual you will not fare well. There are no exceptions to the rule in this regard. Be sure you now what you are dealing with. They can’t be cured. Heed your gut instincts if it feels bad it is. Do not expect honesty, do not expect decency, do not expect kindness and above all do not expect empathy they are devoid of all. Be safe and do your research.

    1. Thank you Eudoxia for your detailed reply, in fact, I believe I am dealing with a narcissist it’s just so hard to accept the reality, it’s very hard. But it’s a cycle of very very very good moments and then very very very cold and harsh ones. Thank you!

      1. Ana,

        These individuals are fully pathological. They will not change, they can make all sorts of promises and break them immediately. Acceptance is difficult inititally because you will try to talk yourself out of any action necessary to remove yourself from the narcs life. Don’t make excuses for the narc.

        I would strongly recommend you listen to the Life Coaches Lisa A Romano – Breakthrough Life Coach, Meridith Miller – Inner Integration and Richard Grannon – Spartan Life Coach. I believe these are the cream of the crop. You will not only learn about narcs and their strategies (and trust me their strategies are all the same) but they will empower you along the way. The best form of protection is self empowerment.

        Also unless a person has been through narc abuse trying to discuss it with those who have no comprehension of it will not be able to comprehend it at all. What’s worse is you are likely to encounter resistance to your concerns from your current support base particularly if they actually like your narc. He will do everything in his power to smear you and turn others against you. They do this with such aplomb it’s insane.

        It sounds like you are going through the devaluation phase particularly since you landed here. There is worse to come, because this is just the start. Be prepared Ana and get ahead of the game. It’s very important. Many of us here have experienced total devastation and betrayal by our nearest and dearest due to narc smear campaigns. Please don’t let this happen to you.

        1. Thank you so much Euxodia. I’ll listen to those experts you recommended and thank you for the advice on how other people dont understand, it is already happening.
          I’ll get out of this relationship!

    2. Ana/Euxodia,

      It is difficult to understand how I can still love someone so much (she is my mother, just has to be from a long distance), who is so completely devoid of any real emotion towards either myself (which what she did was worse than the daily physical abuse between her and my adopted sister, who at the age of 15, gave custody of her back to the state. Always that we both are crazy, or “on drrrruuuuggggzzzzz” when there is something not in her favor.

      These are not the actions of love, or a parent who cares about anyone but herself. I do truly feel pity towards her.

      She can appear vulnerable when she needs to be, but I also know what her own father was and the age she was when any of this occurred was so young, she never had a chance. That little girl is who I have to have compassion for.

      Because the adult woman I know (the 75 year old one) it is heartbreaking to me. But I do believe that same as she mirrors mental illness, she mirrors empathy, etc, when it suits her, or when she can pull it off, I really don’t know. Don’t really want to.

      I think Euxodia’s assessment is a more detailed assessment of what I stated, which is they can fake it. For a while.

  17. Best part of working a program is when (as opposed to if, though in a couple weeks, she won’t even have a current address I put nothing by her), when she attempts to say, “Out of her mind….on dddrrrruugghhhhzzz” the way she always has with both me and my sister, and if she sends police to my home on a welfare check (as she has also done), I can show them my essential oils, diffuser, some GABA and Ashwaghanda, L-Tryptophan, and ask Officer Friendly, “Um, which of the “Drugs” she thinks I am on?” Weed? Please, no one cares, plus I am subject to a UA for my employment. Incompetents don’t pay rent, maintain full time employment, pay their bills, and take a bunch of supplements (DHEA, etc).

    What is funny is the standard for mental competence is much lower than it is for her gun permit.

  18. A book I found helpful is by Dr. Van der Kolk, “The Body Keeps Score, Brain, Body, and Mind in Healing Trauma.” And I do like the idea of the program that helps one recover from a narcissistic relationship (of any kind).

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