Dominance Seekers – More than Narcissistic
Rabid dominance seekers are a special breed of disordered character. They’re narcissistic, to be sure, and some, malignantly so. But all dominance seekers are more than narcissistic. They’re hell bent on having the dominant position. In all my books I refer to these folks as aggressive personalities. And in any relationship, they’re always big trouble, especially the more rabid ones.
A Matter of Balance
No one likes to be in the one-down, subservient, oppressed position. And there’s nothing inherently wrong with striving to be on top, either. Actually, in many of life’s arenas and enterprises, such striving is a good thing. But just as some folks are overly willing to be subordinate, others are pathologically and excessively driven to dominate. Aggressive personalities (in all their varieties) so crave the upper hand and superior position that they make life a nightmare for those under their thumb.
An Important Distinction
Our aggressive instincts are part of us all, to varying degrees. But there’s an important distinction to make here. When our aggressive energies are directed in a principled, constructive, and disciplined way, respecting the boundaries, rights, and needs of others, we rightfully call it assertiveness. And assertiveness is a laudable character trait. But the dominance seekers I call the aggressive personalities take matters far beyond assertiveness. In their narcissism, they pay no heed to the rights, needs, and boundaries of others. And in their overly aggressive predisposition, they wantonly trample those rights, needs, and boundaries without compunction.
The Most Important Caveat of All
Most survivors of abusive relationships will tell you how important it is for the person with a sound conscience to establish the rules of engagement. Why? Because the conscience-deficient among us inevitably do so irresponsibly. And when it comes to having and exercising power, they’ll do that irresponsibly, too. That’s why, above and possessing all else, you NEVER want to hand the reins of power to a severely disturbed character. And that’s an especially important axiom when it comes to the rabid dominance seekers among us. Such folks tend to covet power for its own sake, pursue it too aggressively, and, therefore, inevitably abuse it when they get any measure of it. That’s why Lincoln was absolutely right to say: “If you want to test a [person’s] character, give [them] power.”
Character Matters
The next edition of Character Matters will be livestreamed Wednesday, Jan 15, 2025 at 12 noon Central Time on Dr. Simon’s YouTube Channel. You can join the conversation using this link.
“The death of empathy is one of the earliest and most telling signs of a culture about to fall into barbarism.”
– Hannah Arendt
Dr. Simon,
I’m curious, in this particular instance, this prominent figure, would you say the characteristics are more malignant narcissist, sociopathic, or something else?
My mind keeps wanting an answer, and as hard as try to convince myself that label doesn’t matter. I still find myself wanting, needing, to correctly define, label, this particular personality type.
I am a favorite target of this type of personality and would give my mind and soul at least that bit of, what, sense of understanding, closure, relief? I can’t put my finger on it. Maybe, as I type this, I wonder if it’s a sense of control. Which they work so hard to destroy.
Thanks for your guidance as always. You’ve helped me save my life and my spirit.
Dear Mindful (/ Dr Simon),
I totally understand the position you are in. I myself am desperately trying to understand these characters better and trying to label them appropriately. At the same time I also understand that that might not even contribute to my healing but here I am still trying to get the terminology right.
The existing constructs of (malignant) narcissism, machiavellism, (high functioning) anti social personality disorder, (high functioning) psychopathy to me and probably many others out there can be confusing, quite overlapping in certain aspects, even contradictory to some extend and just difficult to understand and get right.
From what I understand from reading this blog and some of Dr Simons books is that he labels the above described people in the following ways:
– covert aggressive manipulator
– severely character disturbed
– narcissist
– more malignant narcissist
– meta narcissist (“meta” as in going beyond pure narcissism)
– almost psychopath (the term taken from a book written by Ronald
Schouten, MD, JD, and James Silver, JD and cited by Dr Simon
previously on this blog)
I therefor conclude that the above described personalities would be best described/labelled as being narcissists. Additionally they are displaying some of the traits found in people with ASPD/psychopathy, without qualifying for a full blown diagnosis of neither ASPD nor psychopathy.
Dr Simon, is that a fair assumption I am making? Please feel free to comment/correct.
Thank you so much for all the work you have contributed!
Chris,
I appreciate your response and you bring good points of fact.
I spent years trying to label the disordered people in my life. They can nearly fit into all the profiles Dr. Simon has written about. I have come to the conclusion regardless of the label the simplicity of
Character Disordered and in Sheep’s Clothing the title of Dr. Simons book titles says it all.
I still find myself fascinated with this topic and am constantly learrning.
In the end it is always about power over another, “ie” Control….
I would like to add for completeness sake:
Dr Simon has additional labelled above folks:
– wolves in sheep’s clothing (as correctly mentioned by BTOV)
And would like to also add how another expert in character disturbance/narcissism Dr Ramani Durvasula I believe calls/labels this group of people:
– worse than narcisissts (Similar to Dr George Simon’s “beyond narcisisstic”)
– dark triad personality
– Which I believe the label/term might even make the most sense of
them all. These folks show subclinical traits of all 3 of the dark triad traits (narcissism, machiavellism and psychopathy). So maybe this could be the most accurate term?
Chris,
Thank you for your thoughtful replies. It can be challenging to wrap one’s mind around this (them).
Pretty well versed on CD’s at this point out of experience and research.
Was hoping to get Dr. Simon’s take to clarify it my mind.
I am actually reading Dr. Ramani’s book right now. It’s Not You.
What I consider a malignant narcissist is the dark triad personality. It simplifies it my mind. To me, it fits the prominent figure I’m referring to. But I’m not sure.
Seems sociopathic behavior is being normalized. It’s terrifying and heartbreaking.
The issue I have with the term malignant narcissism to describe the “wolves in sheep’s clothing” characters, as described by Dr. George Simon, is as follows:
Malignant narcissism is typically defined as a combination of:
Narcissism
Antisocial behavior
Sadism
Paranoia
However, the way I understand the character-disturbed individuals we are discussing here (“wolves in sheep’s clothing”) is that they are primarily driven by a desire to dominate and get their way. As Dr. Simon correctly stated, they will do whatever it takes to achieve their goals, even if it causes harm to others. But the harm they cause is not the goal—it is simply a byproduct of their relentless pursuit of their own objectives.
Because of this, I don’t believe sadism is a defining feature of these individuals. If I’m not mistaken, paranoia is also not characteristic of them.
Therefore, if my understanding is correct, the label malignant narcissism is not entirely accurate when applied to these individuals.
Sorry for being a bit annoying with these terms ;) All I’m trying to do is to get a better understanding.. that’s all.
Chris, you are correct to say that the term “malignant” is often incorrectly applied. That’s why I try to be so careful with my words, as each word is subject to interpretation and potentially confers perspective. And I so want the perspectives we take to be accurate! Properly used in medicine and in other sciences, the distinction between conditions that are malignant versus relatively “benign” are very important. And there’s an old axiom that students do well to remember: Intervention, in the absence of – and not in accordance with – sound diagnosis, is the very definition of malpractice. Narcissism, as I’ve tried to explain many times, is like any other character disturbance or problematic trait, it exists along spectra of type and degree. So do all of its features. Some manifestations are, by their nature, relatively benign, in that they don’t cause so much damage, and you don’t expect things to get much worse over time in the absence of successful excision. Other manifestations are always toxic, and can be expected to cause increased damage, even fatal harm. That’s the definition of malignancy. And, as you know, some malignancies are beyond our present ability to successfully excise. It’s sad to me that in a world so innundated with information, so much of that information is in itself problematic because of the lack of accuracy. Keep raising your points! You help spur helpful discussions. Also, remember that our diagnostic categories are just that, categories that describe observable features and behaviors that tend to co-occur. And over time, we’ve not only changed the categories (and both removed some and added some) based on current understanding. Moreover, our current system pays no attention to etiology. So, there are inherent limitations. And that’s why, in my work over the years, I learned to focus on core process and not place so much faith in our relatively arbitrary categorizations. Still, it’s important that when we use a label or descriptor, or other word, that we do so with accuracy. I could write volumes on the terms floating around that are commonly used inaccurately by lay persons and professionals alike.
Another addition from my side for completeness’ sake:
I believe that while “dark triad personality” may be the most fitting label here, it is not a clinical diagnosis.
If the individuals described above were in a clinical setting, my guess would be the following diagnosis:
ICD-10: F60.81 (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) with dissocial traits
DSM-5: Narcissistic Personality Disorder (301.81) with comorbid antisocial tendencies
As always, take everything I say with a grain of salt—I do not have a degree in psychology. I am simply an interested layman trying to better understand disturbed personalities.
Well, Dr. Simon, I’m feeling like I was dismissed in this thread by you. Invisible.
Instead of responding to me and my direct question, instead, I was ignored and you responded to someone else. Disappointing and hurtful.
I’m sorry, Mindful, that you’re feeling dismissed. Are you talking about my answer to Chris and about his comment to you? No slight whatsoever intended. Chris made the comment about the word malignant, and I only wanted to clarify. It’s for the benefit of all the readers. And certainly no thought on my part to dismiss anyone!
I so agree regarding the quote from Lincoln. If you want to test a person’s character, give them power.
I was on the HOA board here and to make a very long saga short, some board members thought information should not only be kept from the members, such as no minutes being on the community website or mailed.
Well these board members convinced the members to divide the subdivision getting rid of 38 homes and our side keep the bridge on the creek and we alone pay for any and all repairs.
Within less than 4 yrs only 2 board members still live here, our dues rose from $600 to $1000 and guess what now the bridge needs a total replacement to the tune of $45,000.
That’s truly narcissism at out of give me all the power.
Sadly, we could build the bridge but have no desire to engage with the foolish ones still here.
“We’re trapped in a game of Monopoly where oligarchs own all the property and the rest of us are simply making our way around the board trying to avoid financial ruin.
They’ve also bought the bank and the government, so they can change the rules to their liking.
It’s game over or time for a reset.”
Jack E. Smith
I would add health ”care” to that too. The most atrocious, cruel, dehumanizing and detrimental experiences of my life have been at the hands of so called health care providers. They have made the problems exponentially worse, then cover up their damage/neglect. (Try to coerce me into chemo I didn’t need as an example).
I now have panic attacks if I need to go to the doctor/hospital.
Seriously consider that I’m usually better off taking my chances at home.
If you think I am perhaps overstating this, consider looking up articles on healthcare abuses/profiteering.
https://lowninstitute.org/in-the-news/annual-winners-for-most-egregious-us-healthcare-profiteering-announced/
It’s terrifying and exhausting.
The power is in the hands of the people.
We just don’t COMPLY.
Resist the devil and he will flee from us.
Not to frighten you as Fear is of the devil.
Stay steadfast in Prayer.
It is going to get far worse and we need to stand in truth as truth will set us free. The Disordered hate truth.
The answer to all this is “JESUS”
God Bless All
BTOV,
I trust you mean well with this guidance, I really do.
When they have more power, resources, control, etc.. than you, and you are depending on them for your care, it’s not simply a matter of not complying with things that are not in my best interest. I do that in spades. I resist their control and that makes them tighten the screws even more and try to limit information available to me so I can protect myself.
You know this, I know – it’s why abusers try to isolate, trap, strip and limit your resources. Power and control.
I am a person of faith, and when someone tells me essentially that I’m not praying hard enough or I don’t have enough faith, it’s saying – you’re not doing enough, it’s your fault, YOUR to blame for their atrocious behavior. Frankly, it’s what they want me to think/believe and I will resist THAT message with everything in me.
Mindful,
I do mean well, I tried to put it in very simple terminology. I do understand being in a position of reliance which gives the CD abuser even more leverage and position of control of those who love them and are dependant on them.
From your postings I know you are a person of faith. For someone to comment on your not praying enough etc., people like this are not in your head or know your relatiionship with God or even know your thoughts. They are trying to control and project, undermine and bring you down. Again power over one, exertting their Control.
In todays world we have almost every source of media, advertising, government, churches, etc., viing for Control over you and I and humanity. This is why it is so important to know the enemy, your enemy and to me it is all demonic. Put on the Full Armor of God and walk in the light and love of our Saviour .
Our weapon and strength is to put on the Full Armor of God
Ephesians 6:10-13
The Whole Armor of God
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the [b]wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [c]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—
19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
This is our weapon against this sick world.
Mindful,
You are right about the health care system which has been taken over by the big Pharma. The idea is to keep you sick and on drugs. I will say there are some health care providers that do care about the well being of their patients.
During the fake Covid I began to have severe stomach issues. I had every test possable done and ended up seeing a gastroenterologist who wanted to remove my gall bladder, a $25,000 surgery and its out patient too. I pursued seeing another doctor who examed me and said “absolutely dont let anyone remove your gallbladder.”
Turns out I have a small intestinal infection bacterual overgrowth called SIBO.
During Covid most Doctors were mandated not to give out any antibiotics.
To make a long story short I practice holistic medicine alone with a friend of mine. We came up with all the herbs that have anti-microbial properties that kill off the bad bacteria. I started this proticol 3 years ago, still have my gallbladder and am doing well.
There are so many natural remedies that can build our health for the better instead of all the medications they push. I make sure I constantly read when I have a health issue.
The game of Monopoly is a whole different rabbit whole and I am fully aware of their intent. The oligarchs are every consist of every topic and terminology Dr. Simon has written about……………
BTOV,
Unfortunately, our medical system is now pretty much a for profit system. Most, if not all decisions are made with that in mind. Because of that, like you, I tend to do a ton of research. I read medical journals, studies, and search out professionals that seek out a more holistic approach. My list of horror stories is long unfortunately. Cancer was an eye opening experience on may levels.
I have a different perspective on Covid, but I can certainly see why many do not trust the medical/pharmaceutical community. They often don’t tell the truth or do what’s in the patient’s best interest, so it’s hard to know when they are.
I’m curious which herbs you use for SIBO. I am dealing with a similar issue. Is oregano oil one of them?
Mindful
Please look up” Uncover the Secret to Super Gut With William Davis, MD”
on YouTube. He has answers for you.
I lost 100lbs in weight. I had pre diabetes and a very fatty liver.
I Fast, I go hungry. I ONLY EAT NOW a M.E.D.S. Diet.
M=Meat
E=Eggs
D=Dairy
S=Sea food
and GREEN Vegetables. I Drink only Water, Black tea, Black Coffee, and Herb Tea. No Sugar ,No starch No Grain.
I Practice H.I.T. exercise. I love Hills and Stairs. I go for as long as I can until I have to stop.
I have just finished a 30 hr fast. I do this every week.
I am Not a doctor. I do this my self. To Myself
Joey,
Wow, 100 lbs! That’s impressive!
Thanks, I’ll check it out and see what other tips I learn. The internet is such a blessing for this stuff!
I’m pretty lean. I eat a Mediterranean diet (just fish no land animals). I do what is called intermittent fasting to keep the pre-diabetes away. Usually stop eating by 7p.m. and don’t eat again till I’m hungry. Typically around noon-1 p.m. It gives my organs a good rest and my body a chance to use up the insulin.
I do push ups, squats, bench press and stairs. Building back my strength and endurance after the strokes.
If you’re interested in a good all around supplement for both the insulin resistance & fatty liver, as well as inflammation, look up Alpha Lipoic Acid. I started taking that based on the recommendation of a holistic radiation oncologist. Our bodies make it naturally, but less and less as we age. I have not found any detrimental side effects- and I really look at/for that.
Pretty passionate about learning how to get/stay healthy with good nutrition, and herbal support and supplements when needed. Sounds like you are too!
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11505271/
Here’s a decent article on ALA benefits at different dosages. It gets in the weeds a bit, but you will pick up what you need.
Generally, 300-600mg on an empty stomach. If you have hypoglycemia (I did when I started, don’t now), start with the lower dose and/or take with food until your body adjusts.
Joey, Mindful,
Good for you!!!!
You are taking the right approach with your weight loss protocol as I am practicing the same diet regiment now. Your success presses me to continue on the same path.
I put on 50lbs that I have been trying to lose for the last 5 years. I put on the weight due to meniscus tears in both my knees. I had surgery on one knee and to recoup it took me a year so and put on more weight. Then I broke my foot and more weight followed.
So now am back to the diet you have done so well on. I feel so much better when I stick to it and find the junk foods we all crave at time are easier to pass on. The fasting is good, it gives the body time to cleanse. I never heard of the HIIT exercises so will have to look in to
it. Thera resistant bands are also a useful tool.
I also use a lot of herbal remedies and supplement with vitamins.
Our foods in the US are filled with so many chemicals and fillers that one lacks many of the basic nutrients and minerals we need to heal and feel healthy.
ALA is a useful supplement too, though you have to make sure the company sourcing it is providing a good product.
Have you found you have more energy? I practice holistic medicine on my own too. Many times we have to be our own doctor.
Thanks for sharing
“knowledge Is Power ” Those Rabid Dominance seekers. I Know now what they are trying to achieve.
Hi Joey,
Its been a while, how are you my dear one?
A lot has happened in my life.
Hugs
I’m O.K. I hope the things that are going on with you are good.
I have a stable job now. I hate it. But it’s stable. You have to be grateful for things.
It’s now been over ten years since I started this journey, In life.
All I can say is that I am alive. In relative good health. As I said before You have to be grateful.
Keep ,the faith
Joey
“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.” ― Franklin D. Roosevelt
We’re there unfortunately.