Narcissism and Character Development-Pt 2

Narcissism is part of our makeup from early on in life.  In many respects, developing sound character is all about becoming less narcissistic (see also: Narcissism and Character Development).  But as we grow, certain things can influence how narcissitic we remain or how much more narcissistic we become. Sometimes it’s the things happen to us that make all the difference.  Sometimes, it’s what doesn’t happen that makes all the difference.  And, of course, sometimes it’s a matter of both.

While doing clinical case study research for my books Character Disturbance and In Sheep’s Clothing, I came to believe I’d stumbled upon some very important factors that could foster narcissism in a person’s character.  At the time, there was little empircal support for any of these notions.  But in recent years, some hard scientific evidence has been emerging supporting many of the conjectures I made.  For one thing, it seems that when it comes to forming a healthy, balanced sense of self, what we give recognition to and reinforce as a person grows and develops really matters.

In my books and in several of my online articles (see, for example: How to Inflate an Ego in Three Easy Steps, Getting It Right about Self-Esteem, Fostering Healthy Self-Esteem in Children, and Self-Image: How We See Ourselves and Why It Matters) I make the case that paying attetion to and heaping praise upon a person for their nature-conferred (i.e. God-given) attributes, like  their intelligence, physical beauty, talent, etc. is a good way to inflate their ego and distort their sense of self-worth.  For one thing, no one can legitimately claim credit for any of these things.  They’re purely accidental occurrences – “gifts” as it were – and the benficiary of these things had absolutely nothing to do with conferring them.  The person who claims ownership – and on top of that claims credit for these things – is sure to get a big head.  So if you want to help create a narcissist, give them lots of recognition, praise, and reinforcement for their natural “gifts”.  On the other hand, if you want a person to develop a legitimate, healthy sense of self-regard (i.e. “self-respect”), it’s important to recognize and reinforce the only thing for which they can legitimately claim sole credit: what they do with the gifts they’ve been given.  It’s the effort someone puts forth to conscientiously use their talents and abilities that makes all the difference in developing healthy, positive self-regard. And now, research has emerged solidly supporting both of the aforementioned notions.

An investigator by the name of Brummelman and several of his colleagues have been researching this area for quite some time.  Several of their studies have bolstered the contentions I’ve long made. One study in particular (as referenced in the American Psychological Association’s online journal) suggests that praising children for the wrong things (i.e. their personal attributes as opposed to their efforts) in an attempt to boost their self-esteem can actually backfire :

Praising children, especially those with low self-esteem, for their personal qualities rather than their efforts may make them feel more ashamed when they fail. (

When I’m working with someone on character development issues (especially someone who tends to be fairly narcissistic), I’m always looking for opportunities to both recognize and reinforce even the smallest efforts they might make to exercise their will more conscientiously (i.e. with more care and concern for others).  I find it the single most critical aspect of encouraging someone to undertake the hard work of forging a character of real integrity. And I’ll have much more to say about this in the coming weeks.  In next week’s post, I’ll be addressing how a sense of gratitude about the “gifts” one has been given and the attitude one develops toward the “higher power” conferring those gifts beget a sense of obligation, which is at the heart of developing a sound sense of personal responsibility (you can also read more about this in my book The Judas Syndrome.

More information has been posted on the Seminars page about upcoming workshops, and there will be even more information posted in the next few weeks.  And Character Matters will again be a live program Sunday at 7 pm Eastern (4 pm Pacific), so I can take your phone calls. Lastly, look for a big announcement very soon on the release date for my latest book with Kathy Armistead How Did We End Up Here? which will be available from Amazon, all the major booksellers, and in e-book format.


123 thoughts on “Narcissism and Character Development-Pt 2

    1. Hi to all and I am sorry you are unsubscribing Sheryl. I’ll take advantage of your vacancy and will move over for the fortunate newcomer.

      I have been listening to Dr Simons live radio show on UCY.TV and would encourage all of you to avail yourself of this opportunity. The live call in is great and for so many that have challenging questions Dr. Simon is free to take your call. The program adds so much to the present topic. If you are unavailable you can listen to the achieve or Dr. Simons You Tubes.

      I just want to thank you Dr. Simon for trying to answer the questions I have posed. You have no idea how these small pieces start to fall together.

      I would suggest anyone who has not read the Judas Syndrome to purchase it as Dr. Simon will be referring to the book a lot in the next several weeks.

      I would like to say if it had not been for my faith and prayer I would never had endured all the trials in my life. My faith also gives me a conscience as to what is the right thing to do. I look forward to the coming weeks to learn and to grow.

      Blessings to all

      1. Hi BTOV,

        I agree – Dr. Simon’s live show “Character Matters” ( is a true blessing. It’s really refreshing to hear someone just *say* these things… and the insight gained is an even greater blessing.

        His book “Judas Syndrome” is a great work also. I read that one first, then “In Sheep’s Clothing”, and I’m currently in “Character Disturbance”. What treasures, these!

        The first thing one needs, in dealing with these daily issues of character disturbance, is the truth. I’m very thankful for the insight received from this blog, the books, and the program.

  1. Thanks, Dr.Simon,

    A really good article describing how life should be a journey out of and away from the self centeredness of childhood. I wonder if you could comment on the tendency of some people to come full circle

    I notice that some of the very elderly become very self centered all over again. Do you think this is a cognitive effect of a ‘second childhood’ or the emotional effect of fatigue, diminished capacity, illness, affecting the ability to empathize? Or…might they have always had narcissistic tendencies and they are more apparent with age…as in some kids never grow up?

    1. LisaO

      My narcissistic mother has definitely gotten worse over the years. It’s true that it seems like at a certain age they realize they are past their prime and reality sets in on their dreams of grandeur.

      I think this was a big problem for my mil too. She couldn’t deal with the fact that she was no longer the only mother in the family and was very jealous of me having a brand new baby and the attention it brought me. Hence why I became a huge target for her covert agression.

      I had a boss too who used a lot of manipulation with both positive and negative reinforcement and was notoriously quite the bully. I would never let his crap storm effect me as I knew it was all to do with him and not me. He has softened beautifully with old age and is a sweet grandpa type character around the office now beneath it all. He sold his shares in the company so I think he’s just less stressed and enjoying work.

      It’s an interesting question though. It makes sense that we become more vulnerable again with old age and for many it could be hard to accept the loss of power etc.

    2. LisaO,

      My take will be that both will play role
      – might they have always had narcissistic tendencies and they are more apparent with age… as in some kids never grow
      – emotional effect of fatigue, diminished capacity etc

      Antics that worked years ago, when employed by 70 year old will lead to mask off situation much sooner as antics are so way off for an old person.
      Reduced capability means, close relationships who knew the person with mask off, and were earlier keeping distance from narcissist will now come to pity him/her and may call out the bad behavior. And, it is hard to pull off narcissist rage at the age of 70.

      Maybe how a narcissist is perceived by others, is a function of capability and mask status of narcissist.

      Mask off, capacity to hurt diminished: Others sees narcissist as clown.
      Mask off, capacity to hurt intact: Others see narcissist as person to be afraid of and avoided if possible.
      Mask on, capacity to hurt diminished: Others see narcissist as pitiable person that needs help
      Mask on, capacity to hurt intact: Others live a bad life without understanding why.

      As person age, mask tends to come off, and capability goes down at same time.

      1. Andy,

        Your comments took some deep thinking on my part.
        “Mask off, capacity to hurt diminished: Others sees narcissist as clown.
        Mask off, capacity to hurt intact: Others see narcissist as person to be afraid of and avoided if possible.
        Mask on, capacity to hurt diminished: Others see narcissist as pitiable person that needs help
        Mask on, capacity to hurt intact: Others live a bad life without understanding why.

        As person age, mask tends to come off, and capability goes down at same time.”

        My STBX CDN, now in his 60s has lost everything that was important to him. I pity him. Mask is on but I see through it. He cannot carry the burden of the mask like he did in earlier years, and got away with a lot. I see through that mask, thanks to the help of this site. I am his entire focus now that I’m divorcing him. It’s like I’m his last fight. And He’s a Badger! He does have the capacity to hurt and hurt he does. But his cohorts now see through it all. It is pitiful. And, yes BTOV, he has lost his soul. I see him as an empty, frightened, mean-spirited, evil man, and I am his Target. Exhausting.

        1. Lucy,
          Be very, careful, this is the insanity of it all. This weekend at a function I ran into individuals that knew X and myself. Knew we had D, Knew he was a royal jerk. Of all the comments I least expected was “I really feel sorry for him. You seem to be doing well.” WT I was given all the debt, put up with him for all those years, and they feel sorry for him??????

          Don’t be to sure the X is on his last leg. These individuals CDMN are notorious for their stamina. Mine is always up to something. I am not trying to scare you, I say this from what you have said. Wait till he gets his footing or obtains a low level flying monkey or two.

          There really are ignorant women, men for that fact will be impressed with the CDMN being an attorney and will be more than glad to do his bidding. Never underestimate, you have a real sore loser, these types don’t move on quickly nor does having a GF end the reign, just another allies

          Just my read, have dealt with several of this of this sort and have known other with women with the X attorneys. Lets hope he moves to Vegas that sounds like his territory.

          1. Please excuse, I will try to remember to proof from now on. I know you understand what I am trying to get across.

          2. Thanks for the tips. The Day AFTER my success in court last week he again slammed me with contempt of court petition, with the typical falsities. He so badly wants to have me held in contempt of court. He will never let loose. I know this. I’m his focus. As far as him getting another GF, I don’t believe it will happen. Wish it would. He uses prostitutes and is hateful towards women. Thinks we are all sponges.

          3. Lucy,
            Regardless, I understand that, so many of them are misogynists. It may just end up one of his flying monkeys will be one of the prostitutes. They are very convenient and have low self esteem can easily be manipulated.

            One of the attorneys whose wife I knew married one of the prostitutes he was involved with. This way he didn’t have to pay and got a punching bag in the bargain.

            For all the frivolous contempt charges your STBX is purposely running up, your attorney can ask for sanctions, meaning, asking the judge to hold him in (contempt) responsible for paying your unnecessary legal fees. This could be done by offsetting the proceeds of the sale of the homestead. I would only file contempt charges in the utmost legalistic action to counter his adverse behavior.

            This CDMN must be trying the nerves of the courts, let him have all the rope he wants, he will hang himself. The problem is there really are no punitive measures that deter this kind of individual. What you have going for you is his own behavior will be used against him, HOPEFULLY, in the meantime DO NOT say or do anything that can be used against you. The courts will give the CD 10 feet of leniency and you a inch if that. The responsible party will be given the full weight and burden. and if they can will dump some of his ^&*(*^& on you because it is easier to load onto you. (I am sorry) They look at you as part of him too.

            For all: Haven’t you had thrown in your face “You married them.” Which brings to mind

            Have any of you noticed that once you married them they changed. I figured out once I signed on the dotted line the CD took Ownership……….. Any thoughts Guys!

            Your attorney only needs to address this issue once and at one of the final hearing include that in the divorce decree. Keep in mind post-divorce since he is so difficult. Ask for the monies of the sale of the property to be taken care of through your attorney or a separate 3rd party. By no means let him take responsibility for doing anything if possible.

            Do you know when the trial is, I would imagine there will be a trial since he will not agree to anything. He also wants to make sure there isn’t a dime left?

            I don’t underestimate this one in the courts, he gets attention and causes you distress at the same time. Your case is as interesting as mine. I think you have part of my spade.

            Blessings and the very best, you are in my thoughts and prayers.

          4. Thanks for all the input. The monies from the sale is ordered to go onto my attorney escrow account. I cannot get anything accomplished it seems without a huge fight. I’m just about the point to let it all go to auction.

          5. Good advice. As far as “you married him” a friend of mine said this one too many times and I let him know I never wanted to hear it again and I was highly insulted by it. He apologized. I told him I married in my 20s and neither asked for nor deserved the abusive treatment. Mine didn’t worsen till much later. He was always arrogant but I think actually liked me. But yes he worsened to the point of being intolerable

          6. BTOV,

            It is maddening with acquaintances know of your circumstances but “feel sorry” for the jerk who creates havoc and ill will and actually would love to destroy our soul. I’d tell her, if you want to feel sorry for anyone have it for me. And yes we may appear to be doing well and probably are doing well under the circumstances we are under, but I don’t think people realize the unsettledness, the uneasiness, the anxiety, anger, monetary debt and instability of being the target of a CDN. Maybe then they’d ” feel sorry” for the right person?
            My STBX loser won’t move on. He spends his days looking for reasons to file petitions. I look forward to the day in court where he is sanctioned for his behavior. Then again, it may give him ammo to fight me even harder. A badger he is, the angrier he is the harder he fights.
            Sorry you had a crappy weekend meeting up with the fools who “feel sorry” for the jerk.

          7. Lucy, BTOV,

            You know, hearing how these people behave, the endless plotting, on and on, it actually sounds like they are mentally ill, but they’re not, that’s the scary part.

            It’s like the Film The Terminator got gods sake!

            Wasen’t it mentioned in that James Fallon link that OCD occurs with Psychopathy? I wonder if sometimes that could be it? And where did i hear that they need less sleep than others?

            Lucy, when all this ends are you planning to disappear so that the slug can’t harass you anymore?

            BTOV have you thought about taking up formal study of these types? You could offer a valuable service like you have with Lucy.

            You’re knowledge really is invaluable and you are surrounded by them…..just a thought.

          8. Jackie,

            I wish there were a drug to fix it. Problem is, my STBX self medicates and makes things worse.
            Maybe they do sleep less. Their minds probably are anxious – as is mine.
            I’d like to disappear but my work is here – and he is after my pension – if he gets it I will have to work till I die I guess. Depressing thought. But yeah, if I can get out of this mess and retire I’d love to leave. At least for part of the year anyway, as I had plans to do in retirement (before divorce proceedings). I don’t know what my future holds.
            BTOV is invaluable. I feel bad for her though, surrounded by these jerks. Maybe she and I and others can do a Golden Girls in Florida.

          9. Oh Lucy,

            The absolute b*****d! Let’s hope he DOES NOT get his way with your pension, it seems downright illegal to me!

            There’s hope, you won all counts last week Lucy, maybe this is a foreshadowing of what’s to come. Do you have the same Judge second round?

            I think Thelma and Louise would be a better bet, but with your other halves in the car rather than yourselves:)

          10. Lucy,
            There may be a way, however, I can only say so much here. I was thinking the same thing. A condo or I have a house here. My neighbors want to do the same thing. Prior, the neighbors father owned the house and he always flew to the warmer climate.

            Its relatively simple to buy in Florida, and commute back and forth if you love WI.

          11. Jackie,
            Thank you for the compliments. God has been good to me. There are so many times and things in my life had it not been for my faith in God I would never had made it. Faith in God is about living ones life the way God intended.

            The bible never tells us to do bad things, it encourages us to do good and to live a righteous life, to do good deeds and help others. It has been a difficult road and when I think I can go no further there is divine intervention.

            For all the strength the Lord has given me the only right thing I can do to show my gratefulness is to share what knowledge I have to help another kindred spirit on their journey and then they can reach out to another. I am a work in progress and only by the grace of God have I gotten thus far. You see…. I am working on my own character development too. I will till the day I die.

            I will tell you Jackie, we have some great posters here.

            LisaO you have been rather quiet, a brilliant lady,

            Timothy and Andy our insightful gents that help us understand the male side.

            Vera, so straight forward and perceptive.

            Puddle, Oh Puddle I pray you are well, such an inspiration, all your thoughts from the heart, mind and Spirit.

            Elva, a straight shooter, and encouraging

            J, if only we all knew, the real you, j, we would embrace you with welcome arms. A deep thinker.

            I hope Tori, GG, Einstein, all of you, I hope some day you join us again, if just to leave a message that you are well. You all have given so much. This is what it is all about.

            If we give back just one at a time, hopefully, we will have touched another and made this a better world.


          12. That’s gratefulness.

            Some of the ones you mention haven’t been posting as of lately, like Puddle whom we talked about. Wishing the best for them, too.

          13. Lucy,

            In his mind there will always be a reason. Remember, who and what he is. His mind being the CDMN?SP and an attorney to boot has its advantages and disadvantages. You need to figure out how you can use this to “Your Advantage” and to detach from him.

            I think I am going to find some high profile or cases I see as difficult and sit in the courtroom, this would give me a lot of insight.

            Any how, dear sister, these types of individuals and I am only going by what little you have said and analyzing it from afar this kind of CDMN?S?P only respects strength. Rock Solid Strength.

            Lucy, you need to step back and take a deep breath, now begin to be Lucy, the Lucy deep inside that was buried for so many years and be her. It will be new, but you will be, YOU. The tricky part is since we remained to long, you will have to speed up the process to fast forward.

            #1. Be the authentic Lucy and a Lady at all times.
            #2. No Profanities/smirks/comments/always professional
            #3. Act and speak if anything you say or do will be used against
            you. You are on video 360 24/7
            #4. No Contact of any Kind. Remember who and what he is at all
            #5. There is more, but for now, remember, above all, he respects
            STRENGTH above all else he also is afraid of STRENGTH.

            There are different kinds of strength, predatorily, power, physical, mental, his perverted strength, etc….. or I am going to tell you the most powerful is the Strength of the Spirit.

            CD individuals are terrified of spiritual strength of the soul.

            This may be the most difficult thing you ever do Lucy, but never show fear. The likes of him must be dealt with on the plains of honesty, integrity, decency, and strength of spirit. If you do this the CD won’t know what to do. He will come back, but for you, this experience will build a resolved strong character you never imagined you had.

            Choose your battles wisely, never to get even, but only to show him you will tolerate “nothing” from him. If he wants to engage you will use every resource available to enforce your rights and boundaries.

            Your ultimate goal is to get him out of your life and hopefully, he won’t want YOU in his life because he likes easy prey and he doesn’t know what he will get from you. Hold him responsible at all junctures.

            The CDN will also, know, that he is going into unknown territory, with you, now. You are not the Lucy he was married too, in fact he doesn’t know you at all. He doesn’t know the queen of diamonds, you have all of a sudden become completely alien to him and his perverted mind and he will be unsure of what to do. This is when he will get real sloppy.

            Remember, don’t ask a question you don’t know the answer to. It’s the same concept, he has no idea who or what he is dealing with. This gets tricky because your STBX likes to play risky. We need to make sure he knows if he wants to play he will get burned.

            No Contact, mouth zipped, BEWARE tread carefully, he is looking for a slip!

            God bless and I will talk more about the strength of the spirit.

          14. You are so on point, knowing his type. He so badly wants to hold me in contempt of court, cannot find any wrongdoing so he makes things up. I keep daily detailed notes. It’s obvious he’s a trouble making liar with a disturbed personality. Problem is his attorney will do anything he asks. He’s a sleeze. I just do what I’m supposed to do and follow court orders. He shoots himself in the foot. The more stupid he does the stronger my case becomes. He needs to be stopped.

          15. He knows I’m not scared of him and will stand tall up against him. Actually the part I’m scared of is when he loses more than he can handle and decides to do me in. I don’t know if he will break to the point but the red flags are there

          16. Lucy,
            I understand where you are coming from. Do not waiver, if he is anywhere near, leave or ask for a deputy escort but say nothing, not even a remark. The courthouse is like most places of employment and its a soap opera, and your divorce is probably main stage rating right now.

            CD like to work in the dark about many things but when they get desperate they don’t care if the attention is negative or derogatory towards them, I was going to say character but that is exactly what they are lacking.

            More than anything your non-reacting is making him nuttier.
            Even if you gave him everything he wouldn’t be satisfied, how dare you, how dare you have the nerve to leave him.

            In many cases the best thing to do is to move. Depending, he may follow. Show strength in standing tall and resolute. Do not look at him at all, NO CONTACT at all. Even if it has to do with children.

            Your soon to be is a certified nut, I have a nut, you have a nut, do we let the nut makes us nuts or do we make them nuts or nuttier by not responding. Who cracks the nut that is already nuts, are they cracked or do they crack completely? He is, they are still up to no good, a narcissists goal is to get even.

            Lucy, think back on all past conversations, his treatment of others is the indicator of what he plans to do with you if he has an opportunity. There are ways to block him though.

          17. He keeps losing in court but it does not deter him. He’s a pest. A rodent. He’s losing at his own game. Problem is in losing a lot of money in the process But i will not be his doormat. Ever.

          18. Lucy,
            CDMN are vindictive and he wants to harass you, make you as miserable as he is and see you lose every penny you have. Its not about the money it about control and power over one. He wants to wear you down.

            I really admire your tenacity to be able to work and go through this. I hope your taking extra vitamin supplements. Vitamin C 1000mg, several times a day for energy, passion flower, valerian and olive tree extract are good and help with sleep and anxiety, so is skullcap.

            Good read Patricia Evans in fact most of her books are. You can get them on Amazon or a good place with cheap books is sometimes only $3.00.

        2. Lucy,

          You wrote, “Mask is on but I see through it.”.
          I say, mask is off now.

          When mask is on, we’ll fall for guilt or shame tactics. But, now you see through the mask (mask off), you won’t feel ashamed and will not get dragged back into his old ways if he attempts suicide after eating 3 sleeping pills and claim that his wife made his life miserable.

          1. Sorry. Terminology mix up 🙂

            Mask is on is used to indicate that narcissist is showing his false self.
            Mask is off is used to indicate that narcissist is showing his true self.

            But, I used it to say if victim sees through mask or not.

          2. Now that I’ve left him he shows me his true self. He shows others his false self. My daughter sees his true self because he also victimizes and bullies her. I don’t think he can keep mask off for long even with those he wants to fool. There is so much ugly in him he can’t hide it if he tries. But he has his coworkers fooled. They don’t know his history. They all believe I’m some crazy greedy woman. They have no clue what he’s done and is capable of doing

  2. Lisa O,
    The person in my life that is cd has definitely gotten worse as they age. I think it is because most of their life is behind them and most of their “gifts” they were praised for, such as their looks or talent is fading.

    This is what my husband clung to and also his belief that he should be hugely successful in the music industry because he was so “special”. As he aged I think he realized he never was going to be as special in that area as he thought he should be, and it made him angry. His resentment was directed towards me – criticizing me and trying to tear me down because he didn’t have the ability to look inward.

    As we age it is crucial to be able to look at our life and accept responsibility for the good and unfortunately, some of the bad things that have happened. A Narcissist simply cannot handle the disappoints without blaming others.

    It’s probably much easier for him to blame me, or other people, for the fact that he didn’t and probably realizes now, never will live an unusually privileged life.

    A truly narcissistic person just simply is not capable of looking within and handling disappointments that are bound to have occurred.

    1. Jeanie,

      How do you handle all the criticism misdirected at you? Do you constantly defend yourself? I’ve gone through that. Done with it. Done with him. I’m disappointed in myself for having wasted so much time defending myself to such a jerk. And doesn’t it seem so childish, them falsely blaming others for their actions because they can’t handle taking responsibility? Sometimes I think they are so insecure that they can’t handle being wrong. But they sure don’t find stomping on others. It’s so messed up.

      1. Lucy,
        I don’t handle the critism (which ultimately leads to me 2nd guessing myself = guilt) well. I still have some really bad days. But I’m doing better than I was, which is amazing to me.
        Since I married so young, at 19, he is all I have known – and after 40 years of marriage I am trying to relearn life.
        He was not nice to me – simply put. The problem is everybody thought he was wonderful to me. Because that was what he wanted everyone to think. And over the years with me he would intermix the cruel things and nice things so well that I began to think it was me. It was crazy making. I felt it just had to be me because after all here he is bringing me coffee every morning. He cooked me meals. But he didn’t care about my heart or my soul.
        I am now 60. 1 year separated, eight months into my divorce, and I have good days and I have bad days. But even on my bad days I realize I am happier.

        1. I understand. The good mixed with the bad. It’s confusing. You need to believe in yourself. You know who you are, what your intentions are. How dare him rip at your being. How mean of him. Listen to yourself and push out his cruel remarks. I was constantly being accused of making intent. And would defend myself. What a waste of life! He thought everyone had bad intent – like him. I’m so glad you’ve gotten away from him. Is he still hanging on to you?

          1. Lucy, he is distant – cold. It hurts but I think I am lucky that he stopped being cruel. He is dragging the divorce out though.
            He contacts me fairly often – but his messages contain no emotion.
            It’s almost like we dated for a few months and broke up instead of spending 40 years together.
            He’s very removed from his emotions.

          2. I get cold emails from STBX but they are filled with bad intent and insult and half truths. I don’t read most of them and answer a few here and there, only ones I feel are necessary. I keep them as short as possible. I’ve gotten into some terrible ugly email fights. No contact is the best way fore to go. Yes it’s disheartening to know someone you once loved turn cd and ugly towards you. I’ve quit hurting. Anger took its place and anger is not an emotion I want to hang onto. But it’s part of the dissolution of the relationship. It’s slowly easing up. It’s more frustration nowore than anything. Be careful with the email responses. My STBX tries to use my responses as evidence against me. You married so young. It must be tough for you. But doesn’t it feel good to be out from under his dark cloud? And you can be you – find out who you are without h hovering?

  3. My stbx narc husband was told by his mom his entire life, “You are so special and perfect.” He’s in his mid-40’s and his mom continues to tell him this. He’s got a big head and he actually said to me, “I think I have the PERFECT personality to be in a relationship with.” Yeah, a pathological liar and a constant need for female adoration outside of our marriage sounds like the perfect person to be in a relationship with.

    1. Martha,

      What a perfect soul mate! Just ask his mother! UGH. You know what, once you “get their number” it’s not all that hard to walk away. They’ve really got nothing to offer. (in my case anyway)

  4. I got a question for all your friends. For Dr Simon, too. There is a pattern I’ve noticed that goes like this:

    “I did wrong (or x is wrong), but”

    Ok I did lie, but hey, everybody lies.

    I am going through my lists of strategies they use, and not sure how to peg this one. What would you call it? Diverting?

    1. Vera,
      The first thought that came to my mind is, Vera must be dealing with a kid.

      Tom – Ok, Mom, I took the candy at the store and so did my sister and her
      friend Sue. (Blaming/Minimizing/Excusing)

      Tom – Are you going to punish them too? (Blame/Diverting/Guilt Tripping)

      Tom – They did if first and laughed at me and said I was a sissy if I didn’t.
      (Lying/Looking for Sympathy/ Diverting/Victim card)

      Mom – Mom, Ok, Tom I will talk with the girls and get their side of the story.
      (Successful diverting and blame shifting – stall for time to lie)

      Right on Timothy!

      1. I wish. No, someone online, writing an article. Different issue, same pattern. That crap is everywhere. I am teaching myself to recognize the patterns right away. You see to have them down pat! 🙂

        Why the extra V? Are you BTOV?

        Btw, guys, this is the second or third time my comment disappeared of late. Anyone else notice that? I was asking Timothy, whether making excuses is the same as rationalizing. And poof, it’s gone.

        1. Vera,
          That happened to me, when you’ve spent time and thought on the answer it is a wee bit frustrating to say the least.

          Vera, it ‘s BTOV, sometimes I have to enter my name again and being the old lady I am hit the key twice. See I have excuse a good one at that an old lady.

          Remember awhile back you called them trolls, that was crazy-making that one. Remember he had used 3 names. Now I can sit and laugh, I didn’t want to be hard on anyone, but what a JERK.

          I am glad you bring things to the forefront, I am still learning, getting better though.

          Hope all is well with you, how goes it?

          1. “Remember awhile back you called them trolls, that was crazy-making that one. Remember he had used 3 names. Now I can sit and laugh, I didn’t want to be hard on anyone, but what a JERK.”

            You talking about that Shaun -guy, who apparently was also Patrick the Primal Scream zealot? What was the third name?

          2. Timothy,
            Yes, his name was Dastardly too. He was a trouble maker and twisted posters words and attacked vera. Do you think he was displaying split personalities or just plain as you MF? I will have to go back and read.

        2. Vera yes, i have found i typed a longish message out only to see nothing posted when i check; what i do is refresh the page, if this doesn’t work i then come right out of the site and go back in, i’ve found this works.

          1. To All,
            I sent a note to Dr about the problems were having with posting. If you want to send one too, I got someones email address yesterday, I did think it would be nice to talk to posters in person though. Don’t worry I am as harmless as a old woman telemarketer. Don’t have much spunk leaf only creaks and groans.

  5. Hey, BTOV, btw, when you paid tribute to others(and of course thanks on my part, too!), including those, who haven’t apparently been posting here for quite a while, would you tell a bit more about some of them?

    First, you said about this one guy/lady(?) that you wish you knew the real him/her. I noticed what you said to Lucy about losing sense of one’s real self and that can and does sadly happen – though I figure many here still come to talk about their experience pretty openly, so I’m not sure what to make of your statement. After all, didn’t you also say to Jackie, when she first came, that many people have commented here, who themselves haven’t been victimized CDs per se, but have simply wanted to give their input? So how d’you know if you saw this one particular poster’s true self or not? How do you know if he/she couldn’t simply have been different?

    You also mentioned Tori, GG, Einstein, so what are they like, then? How would you describe them, in turn?

    1. Timothy,

      One example I experienced shortly after leaving my STBX was a friend mentioned how I’d changed, my personality had brightened and I appeared happier and less troubles. My true self is a somewhat happy, look-on-the-bright side type of woman. She sensed my troubles in my behavior before leaving the jerk. When I was living a life with the CD there were several accommodations I made, surrendering parts of myself in order to get along and not have further chaos. I’ve learned to (through counseling) confront head-on badgering, abuse, and do not tolerate it. I speak up when something disturbs me instead of tiptoeing. Living with a CD in many ways deters a person from being who they want to be – because of the repercussions that may come about when you are. The TRUE ME should have never tolerated the ugly life I was leading with him. I lost that true person by being married for so many years, trying to work things out, blah blah when I should have left.
      Nowadays, when I feel insulted, when before it would take several minutes before realizing what had just happened, I see it immediately and I immediately take action. As yesterday, was insulted by a rude office personnel and instead of the typical let it pass – I called her out on it.
      I know this was addressed to BTOV, but I wanted to give you an idea of what losing one’s self is.

      1. Lucy,
        That is true, we do lose part of ourselves when we take back ourselves.
        Never be angry that you loved him, this in itself make you real. Carrying anger and hostility only keeps you stuck in the past. Over time you will get to know the knew and real you. I think though, in retrospect we did not set , firm, proper and respectful boundaries.

        Don’t let the negative destroy or pervert the goodness in you. By pervertedness I mean, many will take on characteristics of the CD and in turn perpetuate the sickness. It takes a considerable amount of guts and honesty to accept our deficits that made the dyad work. In turn, we can make this work to our benefit if we so choose.

        So, in essence, I am telling you I am working on my character flaws, which I have many. This, and my life experiences have been an eye opener, to my soul and what is lacking. I look at the CDN with pity but at the same time had I not gone through this, I would not be on the walk I am on. Trash the false pride and materialism and now feel comfortable in humility and always growing in spiritual maturity.


        1. You sure have grown from all this. I shall try hard to not allow his badness swallow my goodness. It has to be a conscious effort.

    2. Timothy,
      Just came across this post of yours. I will try to get back to some of your questions here when the site is working properly. It would be interesting to see if any of the emails do in fact belong to us.

      I am for privacy, especially nowadays the way people sell our info. I would suggest if anyone decides to post not to use their given names. It seems our names are put in a data base and then referred back to this site. Just a cautioning everyone. You can’t stop everything.

    3. Timothy,
      Almost, all the people posting are victims of the CD. There are some that have come here that have posted and were not directly involved with a CD. There are some that come looking for answers to their particular issues. They are looking for something that goes much deeper. Many times we are looking for ourselves and are afraid to tell someone who we are in fear of rejection. Many have the ability to understand and others do not. It is a chance we have to take.

      For the others I have mentioned, I only interacted very minimally. They all are a part of Dr. Simons community and are Kindred Spirits. Tori and I had similar pains in our hearts we shared briefly.

      The Goofball with 3 names posting at once was Dastardly.

      1. Yeah, Dastardly/Shaun, the one mimicking gangstalking paranoia, that was a freaky case. Then there was that other one, who publicly yelled obscenities. Wow, manners, what are they?!

        Though it’s sometimes hard to know exactly what someone is like, it’s easy to forget how different people are. Since you seem to be thinking highly of him/her, I don’t think it’s sinister, either. Perhaps his/her personality style just could’ve been different and if not in kind, then in degree. I mean, in some people there’s a milder or wilder temperament and in some thinking is more pronounced than feeling etc. Just a thought.

  6. Something weird just happened while posting.
    on the Leave a Reply box, Timothy’s name was still there along with his email address, which isn’t supposed to show.

    1. Ok, now it’s back to normal, at least here. Though I think, Lucy, your email address looked like someone else’s, who’d posted here a while ago…..

      Perhaps it was just us two, Lucy. What the hell? Are there names and email addresses getting all mixed up?

      1. Meaning “your” email address seemed to include the name of some other poster, who’d posted here a while back, so perhaps it wasn’t yours at all?

        1. The webmaster is looking into what’s going on. So far, no indication of hacking, but unsure what’s really going on or why. But it’s a top priority to get fixed and is being worked on now.

      1. Of course, unless you’ve used them both here, then one of them may have been someone else’s. I’ve already seen some names a few times, but with different addresses. Does everyone here have two addresses or something? Am I the only one with only one address?

    1. Okay, for a while I thought that there are handles and addresses getting mixed or something.

      I’ve also gotten others’ names and addresses here a few times already. Not really disorienting, just annoying now. I hope the problem goes away soon.

      1. Timothy,
        We could have fun with this and do a conference. I always thought it would be nice if Dr. Simon could do a centrally located conference for the people on his blog. I am semi- irritating. I am trying to be humorous, have been having some down days. Where are you Joey Zanne?

      2. Timothy,
        We could have fun with this and do a conference. I always thought it would be nice if Dr. Simon could do a centrally located conference for the people on his blog. I am semi- irritating. I am trying to be humorous, have been having some down days. Where are you Joey Zanne?

      1. Joey,
        I was just thinking of you. You always find such beautiful poetry. Did you know the poetry we read and write reflects our inner self.

        Joey you make my head swim and my being swell
        The simple delights of the heart you give
        helps heal and makes me well
        Thoughtful and loving
        far off in a place up in the hills
        you write to make me smile.
        To forget for awhile the woes of the world.

    1. My posts are getting mixed around because sometimes there is no reply button. I had a short hearing last week. It’s not set yet for trial.

    2. I had a short trial last week that went well. It’s not yet set for trial. I got chosen to sell the truck and horse trailer. So within two days i have a buyer. Jackass would not agree to the price. How do I get ordered to sell them and then have to have it agreed to to by the jerk? The buyer said if STBX stirs up any chaos he’s not interested in buying. I quit. Im not going to try to sell either. I told my lawyer I’m done. I’m not selling. Have him do it. I have to find a buyer then get overruled by a CDN? I’m more than pissed and will not make another attempt to find a buyer. I’ve had it ……at my wits end.

      1. Lucy,
        This is a technical game of sorts and the courts are idiots. The judge is a judge because he was either a poor attorney and wants to make sure he gets the government pension and benefits when he retires. Its a brotherhood, they keep everything going, the system going, everyone makes money where there is assets.

        As fast as the assets and monies dry up the courts will get your case done….
        Your X will try to keep it going but if there is nothing there is nothing.
        I don’t like giving you legal advise and it is far from it. There is an easy solution to your deliema. Your lawyer keeps you in the dark because she is another parasite making money off the misfortune of others.

        Perhaps, this is a blessing you have emails now!!!!!!

        1. The judge hates my case. None of them want to touch it. I work at the courthouse which makes it difficulty because they all know me. So the new judge has the case. And I like him. He’s intolerant of BS.

          1. Lucy,
            Good, I need to ask questions in order to answer some of your questions or give you some direction. Do you want to do that here or do you need privacy?

  7. To those ladies who have to endure ????????

    Pam Ayres

    I am going to kill my husband, I have stuck all I can stick,
    His constant criticising is getting on my wick.
    He takes it all for granted, but tonight I can relax,
    For the minute he complains, I shall whop him with the axe.

    Yes, I’m going to kill my husband, I shall have him to be sure,
    He’s never going to curse my navigation any more.
    I drive him to distraction when I read a map, I know,
    But tonight I’m going to drive him where he didn’t plan to go.

    So when he starts haranguing me till I’m a nervous wreck,
    Shouts and spits and rages till the veins swell in his neck.
    As he grabs the map from me there’ll be no turning back,
    I will calmly reach behind me and I’ll whop him with the jack.

    I mean, he gets a cold and I’m supposed to sympathise,
    And his sneezes shake the rafters and tears roll from his eyes.
    He looks so woebegone, just like the back end of a bus,
    And yet when I am ill he’ll tell me not to make a fuss.

    It’s true, he’s got to go, you may not think I’ve got the right,
    But he snores you see and I should know, I’m with him every night.
    With a horrifying steady rythmn whistle, snore and snort,
    Well tonight he’s going to stay asleep for longer than he thought.

    “Your honour, I confess, that with a satisfying thwack,
    I hit him with the frying pan from seven paces back.”
    The weapon was examined by the jury good and true,
    It was all made up of women, and they all said,,”After you!”

    1. Joey,
      If you don’t think the women can be as bad, “Eddy are you Kidding.” Have you ever read about spiders. They are Black Widows and Tarantulas, don’t forget about the small ones either. They come in all sizes, shapes, colors, smells, you name it, they are out there.

      I know there are a pile of She Devils in my family. Believe me they will eat you alive. You may need more than a frying pan for the likes of them!

      What say you fellows?

    Pam Ayres

    I am going to kill my husband, I have stuck all I can stick,
    His constant criticising is getting on my wick.
    He takes it all for granted, but tonight I can relax,
    For the minute he complains, I shall whop him with the axe.

    Yes, I’m going to kill my husband, I shall have him to be sure,
    He’s never going to curse my navigation any more.
    I drive him to distraction when I read a map, I know,
    But tonight I’m going to drive him where he didn’t plan to go.

    So when he starts haranguing me till I’m a nervous wreck,
    Shouts and spits and rages till the veins swell in his neck.
    As he grabs the map from me there’ll be no turning back,
    I will calmly reach behind me and I’ll whop him with the jack.

    I mean, he gets a cold and I’m supposed to sympathise,
    And his sneezes shake the rafters and tears roll from his eyes.
    He looks so woebegone, just like the back end of a bus,
    And yet when I am ill he’ll tell me not to make a fuss.

    It’s true, he’s got to go, you may not think I’ve got the right,
    But he snores you see and I should know, I’m with him every night.
    With a horrifying steady rythmn whistle, snore and snort,
    Well tonight he’s going to stay asleep for longer than he thought.

    “Your honour, I confess, that with a satisfying thwack,
    I hit him with the frying pan from seven paces back.”
    The weapon was examined by the jury good and true,
    It was all made up of women, and they all said,,”After you!”

    1. Ahhh, Pam Ayres, with her strong country bumpkin accent; i assume she came from Wiltshire or Gloucesteshirer, but no, it was Berkshire, never realized that area’s accent could be so strong.

      She was a semi permanent feature of British TV in the mid 70’s.

      1. Meant to say Gloucestershire without the extra r lol!

        System is still going awry, in my reply box was Lucy’s name and email. This really has got to be fixed.

  9. BTOV

    Concerning the person you know of whose husband used prostitutes, do you know if she, or of any others, who sued their husband for exposing them to STDs? I actually contracted one from STBX and had to do follow up for a year checking to see if I’d contracted any others, such as Hepatitis, HIV, etc. Fortunately nothing else showed up. What a jerk! I think he should pay but don’t know if the effort of a lawsuit is worth it. I’m not ashamed. He did this TO me.

  10. Timothy and All Others,

    Before posting go to the bottom of the page an enter your address and name. That will temporarily fix the issue of the right name posting.

  11. I found this.(BULLYONLINE) I hope You find it interesting.
    What these creatures do to others.

    This is a real-life text book example of a bully’s response to accusations of bullying, when his game was almost up. In May 2013, former TV presenter Stuart Hall pleaded guilty to 14 charges of indecent assault involving 13 victims, over a period of 18 years. Four months earlier, however, Hall spoke to reporters after his initial appearance in court. Hall’s words are in italics, with our understanding of what he meant in brackets:

    “May I just say these allegations are pernicious, callous, cruel and above all spurious.
    (TFF inference: “I project the key qualities of my sexual deviancy – perniciousness, callousness, cruelty and spuriousness – onto my victims’ allegations.”)

    “And may I just say I am not guilty and will be defending these accusations.
    (“I am prepared to waste taxpayers’ resources and commit perjury”)

    “Like a lot of other people in this country today I am wondering why it has taken 30 or 40 years for these allegations to surface.
    (“I want you to doubt the credibility of my victims”)
    NOTE that Hall inadvertently gave a bit of the game away by using the word “surface”, implying that he knew there was substance to the allegations and that it had thus far been hidden beneath the proverbial surface.

    “The last two months of my life have been a living nightmare. I have never gone through so much stress in my life and I am finding it difficult to sustain.
    (“Poor me. Please share the contempt I have for my victims, by focusing on the terrible harm they have done to me”)

    “Fortunately I have a very loving family and they are very supportive and I think but for their love I might have been constrained to take my own life.
    (“I need you to associate me with the image of a loving family, which has also been harmed by my victims. Poor family, poor me. What a close shave I am having.”)

    “They have encouraged me to fight on, to fight the charges and regain my reputation and good name and whatever I have represented to this country down the years.
    (“I have lied to everyone – those closest to me and the general public – for years. Even my family think I am innocent. Most people have always thought I was wonderful and I need that to continue. Who gives a damn about the children and young women I assaulted.”)

    “With that I would like to thank everybody who has supported me for their good will which has sustained me through this absolutely horrific ordeal.
    (“In case I have not already made the point, my victims are audacious and horrible for coming forward. I genuinely hope that you feel sorry for me.”)

    “As I say I shall be defending myself. I am 83 years old. I was a healthy 83 year old, but I am now incubating a heart complaint and I’ll be very lucky to survive another couple of years.
    (In case you don’t already feel sorry for me, feel sorry for me because I am frail and I’ve got a heart condition, and it’s all my victims’ fault. To help me get away with this, I need you to feel really, really sorry for me, and I need you and the general public to share the disdain and contempt I have for my victims.”)

    “But I hope to survive those two years and regain my honour and reputation and more than ever, my life.”
    (“My reputation and being untouchable are what let me get away with these crimes for so long. If I can just sustain those things I might reach the end of my life without being punished, like Jimmy Savile. To that end, I intend to continue fooling my family, my lawyers and the courts, you reporters and the whole world, into thinking that I must be innocent.”)

    1. Lucy, when i saw your name and email i scrubbed it out and put my details in, could it be possible that the auto fill is wonky, and people aren’t checking what’s in the detail boxes before they post?

      It never used to auto fill before either.

      1. I’m doing the same thing. I have to now fill it in and then after posting I’ll take it out. But now it’s showing up. I don’t know.

          1. I have no idea what the problem is. 🙂
            I guess the reason joey suggested to use CCleaner is to cleanup browser cache, history, & cookies etc.

            I also use CCleaner. It is quite handy tool to cleanup the computer of all the unwanted files that tend to accumulate over the time.

  12. “Over the Mountains
    Of the Moon,
    Down the Valley of the Shadow,
    Ride, boldly ride,”
    The shade replied-
    “If you seek for Eldorado!”

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