Manipulative Narcissists
Grandiose narcissists see themselves as “above” others. And feeling superior, some also feel entitled to prey on those they perceive as weak or inferior. Manipulative narcissists are covert-aggressors. They use various, subtle tactics to charm, disarm, and otherwise take advantage. They play on your emotions. Moreover, many find the game of getting the better of you amusing and satisfying. In short, they enjoy “toying” with you.
Manipulative narcissists lack empathy. They don’t care how you feel or how you’re impacted by their behavior. All they care about is having their way with you. It feeds their already inflated ego to do so. To them, successfully manipulating you attests to their superiority.
The Malignant Narcissism Spectrum
I’ve mentioned before that character disturbance exists along a spectrum. The same is true for narcissism. And narcissism’s most malignant form is rooted in severe empathy and shame deficits. True psychopaths or sociopaths have no conscience and simply don’t care. So, they prey on others as a lifestyle. Now, most manipulative narcissists aren’t full-blown psychopaths. But that’s no comfort to their victims. It always hurts to be taken advantage of. And it always causes you to question many things. You question not only yourself, but also your faith in human nature.
Sadly, aspects of modern culture increasingly tolerate, promote, and even reward narcissism. Attitudes of entitlement permeate our world. And some aspects of our culture encourage duplicity, deception, and manipulation. Accordingly, genuineness caries substantial risk nowadays. And that makes it hard to heed what I call the 10th commandment of sound character. (See: pp. 144-155 in Character Disturbance.) That commandment involves being of sincere heart and purpose. And its benefits are abundant. However, in our times, it’s particularly hard to teach this command and equally hard to follow it.
Sincerity of Heart and Purpose
Here are a few lines from Character Disturbance on the “10th commandment”:
Be honest with yourself about whatever you do and the reason you’re doing it. Be straightforward with others. Let your intentions be noble and transparent. Harbor no “hidden agendas.”
Teaching sincerity of heart and purpose is a difficult task. If one is not surrounded by others of solid character, sincerity receives a poor welcome. It’s so easy to learn how to present a false face. Neurotics hide their true feelings out of fear of rejection. Disturbed characters hide their true selves and their real agendas for more nefarious purposes.
The sincere course is the best course, if not in the short run, then certainly in the long run. Our entire social environment would take on a marvelous, productive character if more of us were willing to risk sincerity, and to engage in honest, open, and loving communication and debate.
Tidbits
We’re still working to find the right alternative venue for Character Matters. However, you can access all the podcasts on UCY.TV YouTube site. And eventually, you’ll be able to learn much more about the 10 Commandments of Character in a brand new book.
Moreover, many find the game of getting the better of you amusing and satisfying. In short, they enjoy “toying” with you.
This is the realization I came to about my own mother. Which I had known for THIRTY YEARS.
I am 47+3 =50. In the space of those +3 years I have purchased my own home, got a dream job and earn now $43,000 a year.
There is hope, I am living proof of that.
Off topic
I am not dieabetic, I have to loose weight and watch what I eat, A low carb Diet.
Success Is Counted Sweetest
Emily Dickinson
Success is counted sweetest
By those who ne’er succeed.
To comprehend a nectar
Requires sorest need.
Not one of all the purple Host
Who took the Flag today
Can tell the definition
So clear of Victory
As he defeated–dying–
On whose forbidden ear
The distant strains of triumph
Burst agonized and clear!
So true Joey, they do get a lot out of their toying, like a cat and mouse.
Glad to hear about your health, my nephew had the same thing, he was eating really bad and ended up in the hospital. Since he has been on a better diet he hasn’t had a problem. Plus – its just better for health all around- win-win.
Glad for you Joey!!! Congratulations on buying your own home and your dream job!!! I’m sure that feels really good to have accomplished this! You put your hard work in the right direction. Truth matters and I’m encouraged at your success!
Knowing all this helps with sanity. Unfortunately, there seems little one can do or say to encourage a covert, narcissistic heart to repent and turn away from its destruction. If even therapists have a hard time doing this, how much more so for the untrained person.
To have peace in life, I can see why it is easier to just walk away and avoid them when all possible. Otherwise, each interaction gives them the opportunity to play their covert game. Seem like everyone has run into such a person in their life, work, family, neighborhood, etc. I agree the sense of entitlement is a growing problem in our culture.
Dr. Simon,
That really gets to the heart of the problem. I can see I need to print this and keep re-reading it. Thank you for putting your knowledge out there. I hope “Character Matters” finds a good home base.
CW
I used to call the GAMES ” The Needle and then the KNIFE. They are always trying to either or both. Get ONE UP ON YOU, OR ONE OVER ONE YOU. And when you confront them, they just metaphoricaly spite in your face and walk away laughing.
As you say, get out and stay away. is always the best. BUT sadly some cannot
I am currently 76. It was about ten years ago when I began to learn about narcissism. sociopaths, and psychopaths. It’s been an education ever since. I realized who these people are…. from my past and today. Think of the time, money, energy, heartache, etc…one could have saved had we been taught about these characters as young people. It seems you don’t learn until you or a loved one becomes entangled with them that you begin to learn. Some of the criteria that proves as red flags for me are….they don’t like to work (but they take credit for things they haven’t done)….they never or rarely do things for others…. they pity themselves….and they can always turn a conversation around to be about them; and they are usually very dramatic (to draw attention to themselves). Their friendships are usually short-term. It goes on from there.
Hi Brenda,
I have to agree with all you have said. Like you, I got educated the hard way.
I think many of us when we heard the word narcissist, immediately, thought of a conceited, arrogant, vainglorious individual. Little did anyone know we were sleeping with the enemy.
Welcome Brenda, I hope you will share some of your past experiences and and valuable insight and knowledge.
Moreover, many find the game of getting the better of you amusing and satisfying. In short, they enjoy “toying” with you.
Sorry to repeat this, but I thought I would say that THIS IS A GAME to them. THEY WILL KEEP PLAYING and PLAYING THIS GAME OVER AND OVER. They do this to KEEP THE ENERGY GOING.
Once they have secured THIS SOURCE they tap into it as and when required.
BUT there is a BIG catch to this. BEHIND YOUR BACK THE CONTINUALLY PROJECT EACH AND EVERY THING THAT THEY DO, THAT IS CALLOUS ONTO YOU.
SO THEY CAN GAIN THE ENERGY FROM THE SALLY AND SAM SOB STORYS THEY SELL ABOUT YOU.
IN OTHER WORDS “THEY PLAY THE VICTIM BIG TIME”.
How can you punish a true victim ; of course you cannot.
They are a victim.
BUT PLAYING THE VICTIM IS AN INSIDOUS MEANS OF AVOIDING RESPONSIBILLTITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS.
THE BIG POINT OF ALL THIS IS TO KEEP THE TRUE VICTIM IN A ONE
DOWN POSITION AND COMPLETLY POWERLESS.
BECAUSE TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD YOU ARE THE BULLY.
This is what happened to me, until you wake up and realize that you are BETTER OFF HOMELESS AND IN A SHOP DOOR WAY IN THE RAIN AND COLD.
Than you would ever be in contact with your own mother
Joey,
I have been the toy at the hands of my mother, father, sisters and brothers. Husband and now sons. I’m reading how I am party to their collusion.:(:(:(
I am at the point of physical illness.
I can’t believe all the years I’ve looked for this help and now when I feel I’m at the end of my rope I find I really am part of the problem. I thought I had tried so hard to live with them while trying to separate myself from them all.
The stress I have is making me sicker and sicker, guess this is the body’s way of getting us to actually have to be away from them!!! How ironic, my body is actually trying to tell me what it’s going to do to protect me from them.
Seriously, if any of you pray for the folks who post here, please pray for me today. I will be declining to have grandkids over this week, but I feel physically sick. Thank you to everyone who does say a prayer for me.
Lydia,
I am sorry you are going through this, I sure will keep you in my prayers. It is best to distance yourself from what is making you sicker. The longer your body has to deal with these unnecessary stressors, it will become more difficult;t to heal. When you become physically sick your body is screaming out to you to eliminate that which is causing the toxicity.
Keep reading and commenting Lydia. Become strong in knowing your truth and maintain firm boundaries. It may be a lonely road for awhile, however, maintaining ones sanity and health is paramount. One can lose themselves staying in these types of relationships.
Hugs and prayers, take care of yourself.
BTOV,
Thank you for caring and your reply. My kid is doing his best to hurt me. We are the only ones there for them to babysit and to show up and help whenever my grandson is in the hospital.
Which just happened again. Yet my son tries his best to hurt us and play the victim when in fact he’s nothing but a liar and bully. I was so sick after I posted I thought I was going to vomit.
Guess I’m coming to the realization that I’m going to have to eliminate my grandkids from my life because he and daughter in law are so sick.
Still making progress with husband and other son they are becoming more honest and remorseful and empathetic. If I didn’t have them I’d leave home even if to become homeless. It’s that hopeless.
Lydia,
I can understand your frustration. Yes, the CD can have detrimental effects on our health. When we are upset to the point of vomiting our bodies are screaming at us to eliminate the toxicity of what is invading us. Believe me having continued interactions with these toxic individuals can produce long term health issues. Only you can decide when enough is enough.
Perhaps you can limit your interactions to maybe just holidays, or just set a date to pick up and drop off the grandchildren . Unfortunately, many innocents family members always suffer due to the lack of character and decency on the part of the CD. I do understand how the CD tears families and people apart without a care.
It is good you see these things for what they are. Stay true to yourself and to others who truly care. Many times all we can do is sit back and watch, this is where mindfulness, prayer and other modalities like this blog are helpful.
Lydia, I will keep you family in my thoughts and prayers, please do the same for me. So many of us are experiencing the same family problems with the CD. This is where Dr. Simon has talked about CD behavior being in epidemic proportions nowadays.
Lydia, take care of yourself and letting go like Ariel mentioned may be the only answer in order for you to stay healthy. Also, I would encourage you to read Joeys posts again. Joey brought up many good points, it is nothing but a game to them.
Lydia, keep posting, it will help for you to know you have others that care and understand.
Stay Strong
I relate to what you have written and I’ve learned the hard way that it really comes down to you or them. Who are you going to protect and take care of? They want to keep doing what they want to do, often at your expense. It can be a difficult reality to face and one that explains, at least for me, the guilt I’ve felt in stepping back and letting face the consequences of their choices.
I was well on the path to the awareness of the stress in dealing with the chaos and destruction they bring and the toll it was taking on me and distancing myself when cancer came to make sure I fully understood what the stakes are. It’s been 4 months since my diagnosis and I’ve let them all go – my siblings and anyone else who chooses to lie, manipulate, and exploit. They’ve shown me time and time again they do not care about me at all, when I need them, they are like smoke.
I’m alone and focusing my time and energy are on me, what I need to do to heal, take care of, and protect me.
My prayers are with you. It’s a special kind of torture dealing with family members like this. A torture we do not deserve and there is light on the other side! Best wishes.
Healing,
Your post brings sadness, I am sorry you are going through this. I will pray for you and I know others will have you in their thoughts and prayers too You are definitely right in taking care of yourself first and going no contact with people who don’t treat you with dignity and respect.
Its a shame we come to find out how much our families really care when we need them the most. Not only do we suffer with sickness and tragedies we then have to deal with the true reality we are alone and we are the only one we can depend on.
I understand this all to well, many CD individuals are like hyenas, watching and waiting to see whats in it for them. Many CDN feed off ones pain and misery, waiting in the shadows to see whats in it for them. It is good you now can see their true colors.
Healing, know that you are welcome here on Dr. Simons blog. Many of us have found considerate, compassionate understanding and support from each other. We really care do care, we have walked in your shoes. We learn from each and share our stories and coping strategies.
Hugs dear one and many blessings.
Thank you for your kind words of support, BTOV.
My prognosis is excellent and I am staying positive in my healing process. Clearing out the toxic folks has helped considerably.
It’s incredibly painful reality of who they really are. I was nodding to much of what you wrote. The knowledge that we are truly on our own and cannot depend on them for anything, I knew it on some level, yet part of me wanted to believe that surely they couldn’t be that heartless. Yep, they can be and are. Hyenas, an apt way to look at them. It’s painful and liberating at the same time.
Thanks again. I don’t talk about this to others because most people do not understand this and I end up feeling even more alone.
Healing,
Likewise, Thank you for your kind words. Truly, in all this, its not all about self, its about people, each other. Its about caring, reaching out and sharing, being kind and as Jesus taught ” to love one another.” These are the exact attributes lacking in the CD, all that matters to them is their selves.
During my journey in life, many reached out and helped me, lending me their shoulder, giving advise, drying my tears and helping to staunch my wounds. All that was asked of me was to pay forward.
Every time my words help another I remember all who were selfless in reaching out to me. Remembering, these people from my past brings a blessing. Although the past has bad memories, these good memories override the bad and bring a smile.
Healing, it takes time to heal and a lot of self reflection. There are many charlatans that claim you can heal within a short period of time following their methods, if you yourself are a shallow person, then it can work. Taking ownership of our flaws, understanding and digging deep inside and changing that within us, is a process.
The end result is to develop our Character, which is the key. If we look at this world today we can see clearly those who have character and those who do not. It sounds like you are on your healing journey. May your journey be filled with many blessings and I hope you stay for awhile.
I am so sorry to read that you are fighting cancer at a moment when your plate is already so full. Speaking rom my own xperience, it feels so lonely and painful when you realise that even in the company of “loved ones” you have mostly been lonely your whole life. I wish you much strenght, and best wishes for the future. Better days will come, or so I hope…
Fenix,
That is so true. I believe that I truly feel lonely when they are around. I usually don’t feel lonely when they are not. Hope that makes sense. Thank you for your well wishes. Better days have already come, I’m free from my self imposed prison.
Healing,
Sounds like you are in a right frame of mind and know what you need to do. I hope the very best for your healing. There is light on the other side, and opportunities to love and be loved.
Thank you for your kind words, Kat. It’s amazing, but I do trust that there is (even more) light on the other side. Thankfully, I already feel and see the light. I do feel sadness and loss, of course, and I suspect that since I was already working through much of the grief and loss of accepting who my siblings really are, that this last blow was really a confirmation and a painful gift. I was so touched by “and opportunities to love and be loved.” So sweet. Thank you.
Healing,
I just wanted to say to you I am grateful to hear your prognosis is good!
Praying for your healing and recovery to be beyond what even the doctors have told you!!! Thank you for sharing your time and thoughts for me. I am so grateful I’ve found Dr. Simon and all of you. I do mean all of you!
Thank you for your words of kindness and for your prayers! I need them.
Lydia
Lydia,
Thank you, I am grateful too.
You’re so welcome. It’s wonderful the strength and courage you are demonstrating! Sorry about the recent turn of events. Hang in there, sounds like it’s almost over. It’s great news that you have the possibility to be a foster parent if you choose! Congratulations. Trust your instincts, you’ll know what’s best for you and when. When in doubt, you might consider giving yourself some more time to think.
Healing
Whatever makes you feel better do it. Do stuff without him. Create your own life. I’m 83. I know! Find out where you feel “safe”. Go there. I love the inside of my car in a parking lot with good music. Or quiet…I’m safe from him.
Shalom to all! Entitlement screams “if you won’t give it to me, I’ll take it for myself”. Of course “it” being a self proclaimed deserving attitude entrenched in a false belief while putting forward no effort. Kinda like stealing when it suits you. Sadly, woven into the fabric of humanity.
Mapping this arrogant, self serving belief, yes, it’s a belief, not just an attitude, to Dr. Simon’s 10th Commandment, it becomes more apparent why the narcissist refuses to change. Even when the narcissist is met with crisis, their self defining worth is up held in a delusional state and enhanced by entitlement.
This belief feeds upon itself (delusion) and takes from any and all who will give. Negative or positive, the narcissist doesn’t discriminate. Many sources say the narcissist stays attached to you until you ‘let go’ of the focus on them and begin to focus on your own healing.
As Dr. Simon so perfectly named his broadcast, “Character Matters”, it truly does matter.
Using the 10th Commandment as we ‘let go’ of all the negative that the narcissist has done in our relationships, the feeding stops and our healing increases. Time becomes our friend. Gratitude replaces bitterness.
Moving forward, we can receive worthiness from a higher source, outside of deceptive motives and damaging lies. Isn’t that what we all all seeking? To be worthy?
Much love to all who receive the truth… you are so worthy! Selah
Ariel,
I do relate to your comment on entitlement, however, I believe there are several things in life I believe we are entitled to. Above all, I believe we are entitled to being treated with dignity and respect. Not that others will automatically treat us this way. In treating others with dignity and respect we retain our dignity and respect, thus, we are worthy. It is not always easy to maintain ones integrity when egged on or solicited by a covert CD.
I also believe that many CD when confronted with truth, regardless, of the reality of the gutter they swim in, will hold onto their masks till their last dying breath, due to false pride. I also believe the CD have a belief of a reality (delusional of course) of being their own demigod.
I think many times in youth the CDN is more discriminate in choosing their sources. As time goes on and the CDN morps further along the continuum many desirable sources dry up. I see many CDN hanging on regardless of one letting go, it is a true matter of cutting the umbilical cord.
I agree “Using the 10th Commandment as we ‘let go’ of all the negative that the narcissist has done in our relationships, the feeding stops and our healing increases. Time becomes our friend. Gratitude replaces bitterness.”
I would like to add I believe the key to healing above all things is Humility. With humility comes forgiveness on many fronts. Grateful, absolutely. When one thanks God for their blessings, for life itself, humbling ourselves to a greater good, we do become worthy.
The truth can set one free, if one is willing to accept the truth. I believe this is where true character comes in.
Peace and many blessings to all.
Ariel17
It sounds to me as though you’re in a good place, and you have a lot to offer this group with your wisdom and experience.
If God is what helps guide you and get through, more power to you.
I think both believers and non-believers who read your posts will gain insight from your experiences. If God is off-putting to another reader, they can simply quit reading. People can take or leave whatever they want from someone else’s thoughts and beliefs. We aren’t here to sway to one side or the other, but that doesn’t mean we can’t state our own truth.
Please keep posting. You are an asset to this blog.
Lucy, Ariel,
I agree with you Lucy. When we have been held “Back” and held “Down” by the CDN who manipulated and covertly was draining was personhood from us, it is about time we can feel safe to be ourselves and express out truths without be shamed or told to confine our truths to certain words. This especially holds true to when there is no offense to anyone.
I don’t always agree with anothers comments or personal views and these I toss to the side and take that which is good.
We are all unique and one of a kind, just like snowflakes. I appreciate the individuality of all of us. I too, have appreciated Ariel’s posts, all them have their own flavor and uniqueness. The posts are full of Wisdom, Insight, Care and Respect for all. Posts speak from her heart, from her pain and from her growth, these are her Truths and I appreciate her sharing. Thanks Ariel and be Blessed
To All,
Thank you for posting here. I am reading many of your comments here again today. I just got off the phone with the attorney. Thought I was making progress with my husband but alas it looks like we will be talking of a divorce settlement after all.
Having been so sick this past year from the stress of all the lying and manipulating he decided to poke me one last time. I can no longer deal with his addiction to himself and yes, I literally have watched him playing “the game” again just yesterday.
While I am saddened to end a 30 + yr marriage/relationship I cannot bear another incident with him. I am looking towards my future. I am longing to become a foster parent and always thought I couldn’t if I was single. I wouldn’t do it while he’s sick, so my desire and I felt always has been my calling or purpose to serve children may actually be my reward in all this!
I recently found that I could indeed be a single parent of foster children and even be able to adopt them and become someone’s forever family!
If anyone has thoughts or words of advice, encouragement or even concerns I welcome them.
I’m scared to so drastically be changing my life, but I cannot live this way any longer.
Lydia
Lydia, Healing,
It will take time, meanwhile, be kind to yourself and regain your health. As each day passes it will get easier. As you get involved with healthy people your whole outlook will change. Yes, you did the right thing. Why waste anymore of your precious life on someone who attaches no value to your person.
I think if you feel you can care for others and make a change in their lives for the good, “Go For It. ” I would take time for myself first, at least six months to tie up all the loose ends and just be for awhile without taking care of others. Sometimes people jump into other things to fast to shelter themselves from having to deal with their pain.
There are five stages one goes through when divorcing, much like one goes through when someone dies. The 5 stages of grief and loss are:
1. Denial and isolation;
2. Anger;
3. Bargaining;
4. Depression;
5. Acceptance. People who are grieving do not necessarily go through the stages in the same order or experience all of them.
A good read on this topic is “On Death and Dying” By Kubler Ross
Lydia and Healing, I think this article may be of help.
I have attached a link regarding these stages.
https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/
Excellent advice. On Death and Dying is a great book. Thanks!
Lydia,
I too left a 25+ marriage. And I know how hard they can make the divorce procedure, really, unbearable. It took my mind to places it’s never gone (wanting to be hit by a truck, feeling hopeless) because of the abusive tactic he would use. I do understand how you could not bear the divorce procedure any longer and settled. I did the same. Besides the emotional toll, the financial toll was at $75,000 and still going! The maniac would not quit his BS. And, if I’d “won” it would mean an appeal, more $$$, at least three more years of court bickering, and possibly a retrial.
Now that I have no need for contact with him, my life is back, and it’s good.
If fostering is something you’ve always wanted to do, I’m sure it will happen.
Being divorced is drastic, but a drastic change for the good. That black cloud will be gone. You can focus on positivity, healing, doing the things you enjoy, just simply breathing knowing that the X can’t harm you any longer. You will in time feel Peace again.
It took me a while to feel the effects of being divorced, being rid of him. The every day badgering and abuse that came from the divorce process took a while to undo that feeling of regret every day, regret that I had to be alive and endure his abuse (abuse through the courts, through my daughter, financial, everything but physical).
Just take your time and breath. When you feel well-rested, start that fostering process. Because, as you probably know, you may have issues with a foster child, and you want to be well healed and strong before taking on another life, another endeavor.
That’s my advice. Take a little time out for yourself, pamper yourself, enjoy the life CD free!
Thanks Lucy and everyone for your thoughts and comments. I’m not making any rash decisions for sure. I’ve been working on my marriage seems like forever as I know relationships are an everyday process.
So too in raising children. Yes, I must say thought of the train/truck hitting me. Not to mention getting sleeping pills from Doc.
Not resorting to any life ending measures. Reading really great books on how to work things out.
Not sure of anything . Taking it all slow or the disequilibrium gets me spinning.
Lydia,
I know how painful all this is for you. I hope if you are having feelings of sadness or despair you will always come here and let it out. Lydia, please remember we care about you, we have felt your pain too. Feel free to post at anytime and one of us will get back to you.
You are in our thoughts and prayers
Hugs Kindred Spirit
Ariel17,
Appreciate your words of wisdom. You know this subject very well. In order to get Dr.Simon’s message across to the widest possible audience, it is probably best to limit biblical expressions. Thank you and welcome!
Lydia,
Do listen to what your body is telling you. You’ve got to do what you can to distance yourself from the harmful people. You can do this. And if you do try to have less contact, know that they may come at you even fiercer. At that point you may need to go No Contact with them, that means phone, email, any way that they can get to your head, cut if off, because even if you don’t physically see these people, them being able to contact you through other means is every bit as harmful.
During the long divorce proceedings, the emotional abuse was overwhelming. My torso would spasm is my sides, frontal abdomen, my back, my legs. My body was so knotted up from the tension caused from the CD.
Now that the divorce is final and he has no need to contact me, we are no contact, and the spasm are gone.
Please keep posting. We care here. We’ve been through it. We do understand what you’re going through. It’s not simple. It’s very complex.
But you can get out of this mess. I did and Joey did and BOTV did. Andy did, and LisaO and others.
There is a good life to live out there CD-free!
Quote from Hannah Gadsby in her stand-up show “Nanette”,
“…. there is nothing stronger than a broken woman who has rebuilt herself.”
I’m finding this to be true.
Lydia and Healing,
Too bad you two can’t come together and heal! We all know deep down what needs to be done to separate ourselves from the toxic people. I understand finances, though, can prohibit a person from going out on their own.
Healing, it sounds as though you’re on the path to heal yourself both emotionally and physically. They do go hand in hand. I wish you the best.
Lydia, hang in there. Let us know if you’ve got a plan to get out of that mess.
Lydia, I believe they go hand in hand too. Thank you.