Manipulation and the Gaslighting Effect

Gaslighting

Gaslighting has become a popular term these days. It was borrowed from the the suspense thriller play and movie Gas Light. Its plot involves a conniving husband who tries to make his wife think she is losing her mind. And he does this in part by making subtle changes in her environment, including causing the episodic slow dimming of the flame on a gas lamp.

Experts use “gaslighting” to describe what happens to some manipulation victims.  A skilled manipulator can create so much doubt in the mind of their target that the victim no longer trusts their own judgment. And doubt prompts them to buy into the assertions of their manipulator, thus coming under the manipulator’s power and control.

Tactic or Effect?

Some professionals see gaslighting as a specific tactic. And manipulators employ it in several different ways. They can assert something with such intensity and apparent conviction that the other person begins to doubt their own perspective. Vigorous and unwavering denial coupled with a display of righteous indignation can accomplish the same task. Any behavior that gets another person to doubt their judgment and back down will work.

Other professionals, including myself, see gaslighting as an effect. As I point out in In Sheep’s Clothing, manipulation typically occurs through covert-aggression. That is, manipulators use a variety of tactics that effectively cloak their aggressive intentions. So, while the victim’s gut tells them they’re under attack, they often can’t objectively validate their feelings.  This makes them feel crazy. They feel they’re being played but they can’t prove it.  That produces the gaslighting effect.

The Power of Doubt

Like the other aggressive types, covert aggressors seek to win, dominate, and control. And they’ll do whatever they think they have to do to get their way. One highly effective way is to avoid red-flagging aggressive intentions and surreptitiously get the other person to unwittingly but voluntarily surrender. Instill shame, invite guilt, evoke fear, or create great doubt, and the other person will likely back off the stance they really wanted to take. Do all this with intensity and conviction, and you create greater doubt.

People often succumb to manipulation because they doubt their gut hunches. They might intuitively feel someones trying to take advantage. But because they can’t objectively back up their hunch, they begin to doubt. And if they succumb to their doubts, they’re likely to back down. Skilled manipulators know this. The more they can get their victims to doubt themselves, the more likely they are to have their way with them.

Lasting Effects

Victims of prolonged or intense gaslighting can suffer lasting negative effects. And they often need specialized help to overcome these effects. Gaslighting victims often lose their ability to trust themselves. They can suffer chronic doubt about their perceptions and capabilities. And for these reasons they need the counsel of someone who understands what gaslighting is and its typical impact on victims.

In the coming weeks, I’ll be posting more on gaslighting and its effects, using real-life examples. (As always, potentially identifying information will be altered).

Character Matters

Technical problems in New York disrupted the live broadcast of Character Matters last Sunday. And it’s uncertain whether this coming Sunday’s program will be able to air live. Listen for an on-the-air announcement about whether calls can be taken.

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69 thoughts on “Manipulation and the Gaslighting Effect

  1. Thank you for this post. It describes my situation perfectly. To make matters worse, it was so insidious, it turned me against my father, who is every bit the safe person (as in the book, Safe People), that with my mother, she is not. I’d mark “No” on almost every charactersitic of a safe person. I don’t trust myself, or at least now, I am beginning to. As a result, other people are doing so as well. I did obtain a copy of the police report from when she called the police to tell them I was mentally incompetent, suicidal, etc. After 8 hours, this is how much you doubt your own reality, I work a program now, I was very honest, that I she does not need a psychiatrist for my mental problems, then I am “mean and creul.” Truth hurts.

    But when it comes to taking any money from her, life insurance for example, I don’t want it, amends money or not. If she can’t handle that going into an account for me to return to school, she will have to keep it.

    When someone convinces you that you are insane, the result, it is not pretty. Providers would give meds, if I was going to stick around for it, guess, if you are going to put up with it, um, yeah, you will need that-check out and not give a rip.

    My life is not on someone else’s terms.

    1. JC

      Please purchase a copy of “In Sheep’s Clothing” Turn to page 144 and read.
      I cryed my heart out when I first read that paragraph. I was my life in a nut shell
      You situation and my own are very similar. JC Work hard at School and get as far away from your mother as possible.
      You are correct with regards to Money and not taking it. Think of a dog jumping for a stick. ” come on DANCE FOR ME SUCKER, Come on Dance you LOOSER”
      Money is a tool, It will make you dependant financially. Which gives them control and a great deal of power.

  2. To All

    The thing about a hero,
    is even when it doesn’t look like there’s a light at the end of the tunnel,
    they are going to keep digging,
    they are going to keep trying to do right and make up for what’s gone before, just because that’s who they truly are.

    Joss Whedon

    I like my new job . I started Monday.

    Regards

    Joey

    1. I start Thursday.

      I am 42, educated even, and a lot of the reason I have not worked, is because I believed what she was saying. My mother would know, right? The harsh reality, is she doesn’t know much. The role of dependency that I’ve been taking part in, ugh, I want to be sick. Not literally of course.

      Anyone else in this situation, you have insight, do not ever expect it from the narc.

    2. Joey,
      I am so happy for you and please let us know how it works out. For me I stayed stuck for to long. However, with my experiences I can help many others which is rewarding. I am glad you still have this opportunity ahead of you and wish you success. We all have come a long way, a rough road road and when I see another exceed to new heights it fills my heart with with warm feelings of happiness.
      Blessings and continued peace and happiness. BTW love opera and the piece you selected.
      Hugs

        1. I watched this video, and completely agree-the reason this county, as it (or used to be) printed on the currency, “In God we trust” has gotten away from God (and all up in everyone else’s business), and away from God, the narcissism has gotten so prevalent, that there is little hope it will change, I can’t see it happening, at least not as it is now. The very egocentric viewpoint at the heart of narcissism is one that does not change, or is very unlikely. Sad.

          God, spirituality, that is what gives you hope. Take that away, you take away the point of all of this.

  3. Dr George Simon’s content is beyond enlightening and can literally be a life saver. I had an on and off 28 year friendship /relationship with a woman who was an expert at gasligthing, she has a 24 year old Daughter who is also a sociopath. For the safety of the readers, 1st names Wendy & Amanda M.. They are skilled like brain surgeons, the difference is, they use their skill to ruin peoples live, or even worse, get them to take their own lives. In Sheep’s Clothing should be mandatory reading in high schools and colleges. Statistics show sociopath’s are growing like weeds, there is also a grouping of child sociopaths. Your physical health is dependent on your emotional health.

  4. Gary,

    What bothers me is that this kind of thing is passed down generations: My grandfather was worse, a very violent man, I met him once, never wanted to repeat the experience (at 11). I know some of this has had an effect on my own life, not just to mirrior some of her behavior-I don’t tell people they’re crazy, or anything like that.

    What I find hard though, to put the “monkey wrench” in is the pattern of over self-validation, people have noticed it, I have literally proved the things that everyone knows are already true. Plus, there is also the repeated apologizing on my part.

    To me, with my mother, it is sad. She’s 74, and lives with her husband in another state. And she’s going to die alone. And from what I see, the getting God, far be it for me to judge, makes that even worse. I cannot think of anything worse than that. Having any of those habits myself, my goal to as quickly as possible, un-learn all of it.

    1. Hi JC
      You are right on target “UnLearn” when you are conscious of your behavior there is a great chance to change it. Remember, as you mentioned, behavior is passed down from one generation to another. Parenting is not a skill, it is a behavior.
      We are moving into a time period on tremendous emotional unrest, why?, schools don’t teach emotional skills, they teach academics, which is a small part of healthy emotional human life, very small part.
      I learn about sociopathy the hard way, even though I’m a speaker and author, and my presentations are about human behavior, character, ethics, integrity and Happiness, I still fell into the trap of a skilled sociopath. I wrote a book about my experiences and solution, “The Happiness Formula” it recently was released.
      I actually sent a copy to Dr George Simon
      The key to changing behavior, is being conscious of your behavior, and to stay clear of people with zero conscience, even if they are family members.
      The best to you
      Gary King

      1. sadly just goes to show even someone as intelligent and perceptive as you can be victimised…
        thanks Gary, and yes, emotional intelligence and critical thinking skills are not given the importance or resource that they need in our education systems… if only they were the world may be a different and better place right now.

      2. Gary,

        Thanks for posting here. I for one could not agree with you more on this subject. The topic of topics – MAN KNOW THYSELF. I am working on a similar book as well as a children’s book.

        It is not hard to fall into the trap of a skilled sociopath unfortunately I’ve had two in my own family who both caused complete havoc and destruction. I thought, after I did a considerable amount of self work after experiencing my first dark night of the soul, I sufficient knowledge about their kind. I did not. What I did have, however, was sufficient knowledge about me in order to navigate myself out of the viper pit I fell into later.

        During my second dark night when processing all this putrefescence what struck me was that during the time they (my lovely CD) were attempting to reign me in what I was unconsciously doing was not allowing myself to be manipulated and gaslighted. I was onto them in a subtle way but only because I totally know myself. So I was fully aware of when they were projecting and other assorted bastardry.

        I got over one attack, got out restarted my life then my mother died then I got attacked again from two others totally non related to the first. You don’t think that did some damage. Enter second dark night. Something really incredible happened though during my second time round.

        I think a trap many fall into is during their first dark night of the soul they do something about their own behavior and this is good. But they can swing the other way to where a person is left with insufficient boundaries. This is what happened to me. You could say they completely starve their black wolf and dedicate their energy to their white wolf. Our black wolf must be fed and tamed for it is our black wolf that is the defender of our territory – our sovereign being, our authentic selves.

        With the amount of CD in the world today and I fully believe the figures are more around 35 – 40% of the population – this human race needs as much information as they can because the so called authorities won’t be giving us any. This system works a charm for the dark overlords. Keep us in pain, misery and suffering and they have repeat business, just the way they like it. Well I beg to differ and I for one will be sharing my experiences with as many others as humanly possible in order for them to navigate out of the viper pit and stay viper free forever.

        Had it not have been for the second and third onslaughts I would not be where I am today. But I’m happy to say and with a high degree of certainty I am a psychopath free zone and will remain that way. Anybody who does not demonstrate a high degree of emotional maturity and who demonstrates lack of personal responsibility will not be coming to any of my parties any time soon.

        Thanks for posting Gary I will take a look at your formula.

        Cheers

    1. Jc

      As I said your situation and mine are very similar. I escaped and MY LIFE AS A RESULT HAS seriously improved. So if I can advise I will do my best. Dr Simon is of course the goto source of information

      1. Joey,

        I witnessed a shooting when I was 19. My mother used it to tell people at work about it so she could have support dealing with “her mental problems,” and those people deserved better. Enough mileage out of bad press.

        Every primary care, every psychologist and psychiatrist, and until I began working a program, I realized that they’d been telling me, “You don’t need me, but if you are going to put up with it, then here, you need this” (psych drugs), and all it was is a way to check out and not care. That is the truth. But when I realized thinking I need help for any of the dependency issues, the projection of what the issues I have had were onto other people, that was where the buck stops. I am also realizing that continuing in this fashion, is a lack of self-respect (as opposed to self-love), and instead, giving my power back to her, and in some ways, to a serial killer (old deal, anyhow).

        Soon as I cut it off, I realized just how right they all were. Sponsors too.

  5. JC

    The thing I have learned is to be MINDFUL as Dr Simon Teaches. In other words WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. Being mindful is a great asset. You must learn to be mindful at all times. It is hard, but worth it in the end. Take a deep breath and think, look and listern. Because there is no Him, Her and or them. There is only you, just you and what you would like or need.
    Being in control and having greater control in your self and your abilities is going to take you on a road to well being. You will have good and bad days BUT ! always try and be MINDFUL ?

    1. Agreed, when I started looking at the big picture, that was when I realized that when it was a decision on my part in some ways to believe what she was saying, it was that it went on over years.

      I was just giving her my power, and I finally took it back.

      1. JC

        When I said about being Mindful, try not to think about your own power and control as being given or taken. Try and think about having empowered yourself. This is very hard to do. You are dwelling on what they have done. The only thing anyone can do is move forward, I am learning this myself.

        You and me both JC

        1. Sorry JC It should have read

          When I said about being Mindful, try not to think about your own power and control as being given or taken. You are dwelling on what they have done.This is very hard to do.

  6. JC,
    Welcome aboard. You have a great mentor in Joey experiencing many of the same things as you. What is beautiful about Joey is, he picked himself up by the bootstraps and overcame. I believe one step at a time. My father was a CDN and my 6 siblings are the same way, not and easy bunch to deal with.

    I am glad you found your way here and if you stay you will find validation and support and most of all a supportive family that is united encircling the globe. It will take time, I know if you stay you will find yourself again and become strong.

    Blessings JC, from now on forward ho and no looking back. Joey is exactly right about living in the moment and being mindful.

    Blessing Kindred Spirit

    1. I prayed for a spirit guide. Hope is my primary, my secondary is Brian, which means honor and strong one.

      The person I feel for, though I am no longer tied up in what everyone else’s problem is, my brother, he was the “good child.” But as far as things go, he does well, he just tolerates the stuff, I think.

  7. Made one error in manners, but I think you guys will appreciate it (this was about five minutes before I cut it off, and that was that my mother needs a psychiatrist for her mental problems. As in her own. All mine said, if I cut it off, I would not need them. Or the crappy meds that stunt your emotional growth.

  8. “One highly effective way is to avoid red-flagging aggressive intentions and surreptitiously get the other person to unwittingly but voluntarily surrender.”

    When I was in leadership in my ex-church, my fellow leader (who wanted to be “king”) had a very effective technique for getting me to comply with his agenda. If I disagreed with any of his proposals, or offered an alternative suggestion, he would simply respond by saying, “I strongly believe we should do ….” He would repeat that statement over, and over, and over again, until I felt like I was hitting my head against a brick wall and I’d give in to his demands just to stop the pain.

  9. With her, it is not my problem any longer-the whole deal is over. I have heard her say things to that effect, passive agressive of me, perhaps, but there is no response she can give when I immediately hang up, change my number, the desk no longer puts her calls through, and mail is sent back. Life is much better.

  10. Living Liminal

    And my respose would be:

    He says“I strongly believe we should do ….”

    And mine ” I feel like I am hitting my head against a brick wall ” When I talk to you”

    ” Good Bye” and leave right away. If he calls ,just keep walking

    And if he complains as says about rudeness, Just say ” All you say when I suggest something is “I strongly believe we should do ….” and that is polite YES” Goodbye

    And Walk away.

    Put the ball back in their court. They ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A FIGHT DO’NT GIVE THEM ONE

    1. Joey, eventually, I did walk away, and have since educated myself about this type of abusive behaviour (and many others) so that I can help others who are experiencing it, and keep myself safe, too.

    2. I think the comment I made was recieved in the typical fashion, but it had it’s benefit. As we know, the narc gets angry when confronted with the truth about their behavior. Exactly what happened (good thing I live several states away), but that was wwhen I realized, “I am done here,” and the phone number changed, and the front desk was told no more calls to be put through.

      Confronting them does no good, that was the lesson in my case. The response I gave, also was the correct one at that point.

  11. The comment I have here, is after being hooked on codeine when I was a kid, which I got rid of at the time, at least, and she began to second guess even a prescription of Celebrex (an NSAID given to me at UWMC. UC Davis, and UNMC and every provider I have ever had, let alone any pain management doc that I have ever been to. But when every doc I have ever worked with said, “You don’t need me, cut that off with her,” and I found they were right, and would give me mood medications and antidepressants to take if I was going to put up with it, and they all said, “You are going to do that, you will need these.” Checking out and not giving a rip.

    Most recently, her husband (after my dad), he has the “same back problem I do, only mine worse, I had to have surgery”), and the University of Florida gives him the gabapentin? He does not just need it for chronic back pain, he needs it for other reasons, but this is one guy I do not envy. I feel bad for him.

    How perfectly sane of me!! 🙂

  12. Did you watch the movie? The nasty husband did NOT intentionally dim the gas lights. They dimmed because he was opening more gas jets in the attic while he was searching for the jewels. BUT, the dimming of the gas lights without explanation for the wife was part of the overall emotional effect.

    1. Glenn,

      You are right. I had watched the movie. I also noted that most places, not just this blog, incorrectly state that lights were dimmed intentionally.

      But the main thing is that, with regards to dimming of lights, the husbands simply told his wife that she was imaging things. Whether this act of dimming the lights was done intentionally or unintentionally is moot. The claim that she was imagining things is gas-lighting.

      I guess it just simplifies and magnifies the core message if we link everything together: movie name is gaslight, term is gaslighting, object in movie gaslight, gaslight dimmed intentionally, claim that target is losing mind and imagining things. The moment we add “gaslight dimmed unintentionally”, it raises a question “why” and the main message could be lost.

      In the movie, there were other cases where husband did intentionally did few things, like misplacing purse etc and told his wife that she was losing her mind. That was intentional part of overall emotional effect.

      1. AndyD, Glenn,

        Glenn, great observation, thank you for pointing this out.

        AndyD, well stated, and words of wisdom. I would like to add it is always about control and further expansion is defining ones reality………………. Otherwise, who, what, whys, and so forth can keep us hung up. Many of us study this subject in depth and it takes a lot of objective thought to understand. The most important element is to stay on topic of concerning our self and what is the best way to disconnect and become whole.

        To all, be well and disconnect!!!!!!!!

        1. BTOV/Andy/Glenn

          It doesn’t matter if they were or weren’t dimmed intentionally. The husband used it to his full advantage nonetheless making him just as guilty. They are all opportunistic and whenever they see an opportunity to advantage themselves they will grab it.

          Disconnect alright. As we are nothing more than a battery to them time to turn off the energy supply once and for all.

        2. BOTV
          “The most important element is to stay on topic of concerning our self and what is the best way to disconnect and become whole.” Well said! Often times I find my focus too much on the what and why of the CDN and lose focus on my own healing and have to constantly remind myself it is Inwho matters, my emotional well being ,ore so than figuring out the SB’s character problems. It is a constant refocus and reshifting. I’m getting there though and healing

  13. Always remember, a CDN does not grow, learn or change. This is the part you always can do.

    They teach you about love with conditions, hate and fear. Someone once told me as humans we move away from change, as a reflex. Embrace some change, that is what makes you different.

    Mental illness is 50% genetic. Thankfully, in my own case, the 50% is a good, healthy and safe person. Who loves without conditions and doesn’t foster dependence.

    1. JC,
      CD individuals can cause what mirrors mental illness in us. They cause us to act in unnatural ways than we otherwise would in a healty environment or relationship. What the CD do is practice brainwashing and with them it comes naturally to their repertoire of CD traits.

      Don’t underestimate the CD, they do learn from us. Never share your knowledge with them, if you do they will add it to their arsenal of tactics. Keep your knowledge to yourself and use it to help others. You can learn not to react to the CD’s tactics thereby disarming them. When you change your interactions with them in a realistic and insightful way this will knock them off guard.

      JC, I will get back to the other issue you presented later and if you can present with more information, only what you feel comfortable with, I will respond.

      JC, be well and kind to yourself. I am glad you are the journey to take back your life. Know, you have a great group of Kindred Spirits here who understand and are well versed in dealing with the CD. When we, on this blog are able to help another back on the road to the recovery from the CD we all delight in your happiness.

      Blessings

  14. This is not to point fingers, but to describe just how indidious this all is.

    One doctor told me that I had a CD myself, and I can see why, but in looking at this , it is nothing that I can’t unlearn as previously said, but soon as I dropped the issue with her, the rest comes easily.

  15. As un-kosher as it may be, telling the CDN in my life to go get a psychiatrist for her own mental problems was therapy itself. Then promptly cutting it off. Stress before?

    Sad thing of it is? There is no therapy for that. But now, I don’t need it anymore.

    Not now!!!!

  16. Practicing true mindfulness is about knowing ourselves and our own triggers. This means identifying our triggers which are early maladaptive childhood schemas and we all have them. The extent of abuse we suffered in our childhood will determine what schemas we have operative. It’s imperative to identify these. If not we are “loose cannons” and highly reactive. We can all be triggered the trick is knowing when something or someone has activated a trigger. This is the part where mindfulness is required. If we are able to identify a schema has been activated we then have a split second to correct our reaction/response to the trigger. The trigger doesn’t cause the emotions arising in us, it activates them. This is explained fully in Emotional Alchemy and it should be accompanied by Emotional Intelligence and The Power of Now – essential reading for everybody.

    Because CD are literally crawling with these they are easily triggered. Due to their meglomaniacal state they immediately launch a scathing attack on the trigger which is usually a person. Anybody even non CD who is easily triggered is someone to be avoided at all costs. The mature way of dealing with these is identifying which ones we have and own them so we know when they become active. I did that early in the piece and it was the best thing I’ve ever done.

    From PsychCentral:
    A trigger is something that sets off a memory tape or flashback transporting the person back to the event of her/his original trauma. Triggers are very personal; different things trigger different people. The survivor may begin to avoid situations and stimuli that she/he thinks triggered the flashback. She/he will react to this flashback, trigger with an emotional intensity similar to that at the time of the trauma. A person’s triggers are activated through one or more of the five senses: sight, sound, touch, smell and taste.*{PsychCentral}

    We are all responsible for the quality of our own experiences. It doesn’t matter who is giving us a hard time. It’s up to us to accept, change or challenge it in a way that doesn’t injure us or the other person. That responsibility is ours. This is what emotional maturity is about. This is exceedingly challenging with CD which is why it’s best to go NC with them. They don’t get it, they will twist everything around to suit them etc etc………………… we all know that dance. You can’t talk to a man with a shotgun in his hand.

    The quality of our own experiences will be totally dependent on HOW WE deal with these challenges that arise through others. When we have been triggered and providing we know our own triggers is when we are presented with a window of opportunity – we can take charge and direct our experience rather than be at the mercy of it. We can either fly off the handle and get carried away by our operative schema and go munyuk at the trigger OR we can chose to do something more mature. We have the ability to respond appropriately rather than react hysterically and shoot the messenger. I refer to the latter as emotional gunslingers. But in order to render our own schemas inactive we must first identify them.

    That’s what being present is really about. Not going back into flashback mode keeps us present. When someone has been triggered and is unconscious of it – they are not living in the now. The trigger ends up getting slimed by the gunslinger. The gunslinger will continually try to prove the trigger caused them to react like a volcano. As a general rule they can’t because what has usually been said or done was not on purpose or does not deserve the intensity it is met with. In other words their reaction is disproportionate to the thing said or done that triggers the hysteria. So to justify their own hysteria they will pull up all manner of slights and grievances from the past to paint the trigger with. CD are loaded with this type of reaction so are others who are non CD and who are alive with schemas and who have not identified their own active schemas. A schema can only be rendered inactive when we stop reacting to them and start to respond appropriately instead. That’s when we become fully responsible for the quality of our own experiences.

    Of course CD will always lay blame on everything and everyone else and no amount of calm reassurance will work with these human rejects. We can never expect to be in control of the quality of our own experiences with these gunslingers, but we can with anybody else. It’s amazing how many volotile situations can be avoided and turned around for the better once you set your mind to it! :-

    If the entire human race practices true mindfulness what a great place this would be.

    1. I started back to work, to drop the dependency, and sent a letter stating (since the CDN involved is a parent) that if I am to accept the life insurance it goes into a tax shelter plan with the bank earmarked for my being able to return to school. Otherwise I will not be able to accept it. Putting my brother in charge of it puts me back into her favorite role with me as a mental incompetent, and further is one that puts him into the role of parent, that it is not appropriate. It may or may not happen, fact is I know even without it, I can get this accomplished.

      And I requested a copy of the police report from NE, in the event That I need it.

      Taking my life back, feels amazing. Any way I reacted to this was never consciously, the difference is I have the ability to unlearn it all.

  17. Dr. Simon,
    I’ve been avoiding this topic since Trump was elected, but I’m just going to broach it now. From what I’ve been reading on the topic of narcissistic behavior, it appears to me that Donald Trump is a prime example of grandiose narcissist. Would you care to comment on what you believe is the condition of Donald Trump’s character and fitness to be the POTUS?
    If you choose to not comment, I fully understand.

    1. Lucy,

      My family is predominantly Republican, or were until they elected him, but the thing of it is? Most of the people in goverment and the video talks about this, are narcissists. There is the Clintons, and um, take your pick. It is more prevalent now than ever.

    2. Lucy,

      As you know I am not in the US and don’t like any of them. Nobody can accuse me of being bias because I loath of them equally, however. What I can tell you right now is Trump is the lessor of two evils. Trump is only starting to do now what Hillary would have already done and she would have wasted no time about it. When you see the likes of John McCain and Lindsey Graham approving of what Trump is doing then that has the Neocon seal of approval and it’s now the neocons pulls Trump’s strings. Hillary would have already turned put this planet into a nuclear winter. Be thankful for small mercies.

      1. Euros
        I strongly disagree. And I don’t know why anytime I say something negative about Trump people have to talk about Hillary . She is not the president so it does not matter I did want some insight from Dr Simon, because I feel that we have an example of a narc right there in our face in a powerful position. Look how he has rallies to feed his bruised ego. It’s sick

        1. Lucy

          Because I consider Hillary Clinton to be the most pathologically dangerous person to have ever lived including Bush Snr, Hitler, Stalin and every serial killer put together. Trump is a saint compared to her and I don’t like Trump either. There have been no presidents fit for office since JFK and they shot him for that reason.

          I would in a heart beat vote for any potential human being that passed a psychopath test and was found to not be one. They would also have to not be personality disordered in any way and have a high degree of emotional intelligence otherwise they are not fit for office period.

          If one such beast exists can you point him/her in my direction.

          1. It is difficult to compare Trump and Hillary Clinton and figure out who is worst. Hillary surely is a classic politician liar, probably worse as she had been first lady in past who had freedom to take independent position instead of taking politically correct position.
            She now claims Trump to be “creep” and claims her ‘skin crawled” during debate. But, she just may be “projecting” what Trump would have felt had he not been a thick-skinned self-aggrandizing egotistical person.

          2. Trump & Hillary is a case of the pot and the kettle.

            I used to live in Nebraska, I think the politics rubbed off. The goverment issues, are a boundary one. They overstep them in contrast with a “stay out of what is none of our business’ both at home and in foreign affairs, if this discussion were to be had.

            All of them, I agree, are narcissists by definition-they put people in prison for crimes almost all of them are guilty of. Republican or Democrat, Trump, Bush, or a Clinton alike.

  18. Agree about Hillary, Trump is easy to spot, he is not as slick as Hillary. She is a more dangerous narc in my estimate because she is so good at it.

      1. To All,

        First I would like to say we have a group of wonderful posters on this blog.
        Notably political issues are very personal and especially in these times a difficult and emotional topic which has the potential to divide a nation.

        In all fairness to everyone on this blog and due consideration for everyone’s personal views and political beliefs, I think we should tread carefully on this topic as not to alienate one another. I am not a proponent of all this PC, however, I like to think of us foremost as family.
        I know there are ones on this site who believe one way or the other.

        Just my humble opinion.
        Be well and God Bless

    1. She’s a CUNT

      C – Callous, Cowards
      U – Unrepentant, unreliable, unempathic, uncaring, unmerciful, unconscionable (and the list stretches for miles)
      N – Non negotiable, Nihilistic, Nasty, Necrophilic
      T – Treacherous Traitors
      s – (soul rapists)

      I hope that explains it and I apologise if anybody takes offense at this clarification. I don’t.

  19. When the ‘alt right’ mischaracterize Trump as a political genius playing ‘four dimensional chess,’ rather than the shallow malignant narcissist that he is, it seems like gaslighting to me. They are suggesting you question your ‘lying eyes’ in favour of their own convoluted theories.
    This goes for ‘Pizza-gate’ as well. There is zero legitimate proof that Clinton was involved in pedophilia or sanctioned it. Somehow, the alt right have sucessfully pushed the idea that Clinton was a child sacrificing cannibal.

    Oh, and if you question it YOU’RE crazy.

  20. Btov,

    Agree. We are living in an age where gaslighting has moved from the interpersonal to the political. We can’t truly ever know EXACTLY what is going on behind the scenes, politically, except in retrospect. Even then it is difficult.

    It is much easier to get a handle on character disorders as they affect us in the interpersonal realm. We are closer to it, so feel its effects directly and immediately. We don’t have to engage in much guesswork.

    1. LisaO

      Agree. We are living in an age where gaslighting has moved from the interpersonal to the political. We can’t truly ever know EXACTLY what is going on behind the scenes, politically, except in retrospect. Even then it is difficult.

      Behind the scenes, on top of the scenes, below the scenes – it’s the hidden hands we should be worried about not the show ponies. What the hidden hand do is polarize everybody. Political gaslighting – hell they invented it! They’ve been doing it forever – just turn on the TV and sit down and cop your daily programming!

      Best thing I ever did was turn off the TV. I got rid of it completely 15 years ago and still don’t have one. It’s a dangerous device I suggest people should throw it out. Put on your truth seekers cap and set your will and intent to finding truth then lock it in place. Leave no stone un-turned. Don’t listen to the opinions of television so called journalists. I could do a better job than they do.

      If you want to see psychopaths in action just zero in on CSPAN and go watch a few Senate Armed Services Committee Hearings with McCain and Graham in action! Then you can play spot the narc. Although that’s relatively easy, what would be infinitely harder would be play spot the non psychotic. They are all ALL of them bar few – nasty, predatory, war mongering, savages! I’ve watched at least 50 – 60 hours of these hearings till I needed no further proof we have CDMNSP running the US congress. Just take a look around! Does it look normal? Does anywhere look normal? What is normal? US feeds billions into it’s war machine to go conquer other countries in order for the Project for the New American Century to continue with it’s plans for Full Spectrum Dominance. The facts are out there in abundance.

      However while everybody is pitted against each other. Such as left vs right etc. How is it going to resolve anything, it’s just another form of bread and circuses – keep the kids fighting among themselves and the politicians on behalf of their masters will run this planet into oblivion. You know what will happen and conveniently for the elite – the civilian population will end up killing each other. Go on have a civil war if you must, it might bring this thing to a head sooner rather than later because nobody is going to come to their senses anytime soon.

      United we stand divided we fall. Would be wise to keep that in mind.

      Does Hillary Clinton eat babies? That’s a good one! She probably does, wouldn’t surprise me. CDMNSP gravitate to power – like moths to a flame. As far as I am concerned you have to be dedicated psychopath to even want to become a politician in the first place.

      The sad fact of the matter is pedophilia is rampant and so is child trafficking. I knew about this 25 years ago, I had a friend who was a detective and told me a lot of interesting stuff that was quite frankly stomach churning and very hard to digest – that job nearly killed him BTW – everything is corrupt. I moved to the country in order to keep my son safe, that was how horrific it was and that was back then. Is Pedogate real – undoubtedly. It’s nice to put on a pair of rose colored glasses and pretend it doesn’t exist but I chose to smash mine. Cognitive dissonance doesn’t appeal to me.

      Everybody on this forum knows that there is absolutely nothing that a CDMNSP would not sink to including pedophilia, child rape and murder. Think about it – the more wealth you have, the more power you have the more you are inclined toward being above the law and getting away with murder literally. If you think this type of thing does not go on well I’m sorry to say it certainly does. When will it stop? When enough people become aware of it and start taking action. What is required is action against evil and a concerted effort which means people have to take off their respective hats and join humanity in an effort to cure or rid ourselves of human evil.

      That’s a big task but someone’s gotta do it!

  21. I know I have shared most of my story. To sum it up, I wish I could say that she needs to go to hell, but I do hope God has some mercy on her, where she’s shown the rest of us none-me or my sister-my sister, adopted, and given back to the state-and my father had little to do with it. Comes not from anger, really, resignation, and to be honest?

    I no longer give a crap.

    1. JC – yes you probably do give a crap. That’s the thing with grief. You are in a stage of grief notwithstanding your mother is still alive. You will go through that process. It is inevitable – no avoiding it. You might be able to avoid for a time, until you get another CDMNSP come to remind you of this. You don’t want that. Trust me.

      1. So maybe the acceptance stage is it. I am not wanting to see what happens when at 75 (almost), she sees time slipping away, sad.

  22. Hey Guys,

    I just bought a copy of The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson and I can already highly recommend it.

    Seriously – raises a toast to my fellow seasoned ticket holders – cheers!

  23. Hi guys,

    Wish me luck, someone took my wallet at work, no proof, but the last place I had it and the last person there (???), but when stressed, as it had my last bus pass to get to and from work, I copped a bad attitude. I hope I still have a job and it does not go to the moron who took my stuff. No evidence, I did not want to say anything, for obvious reasons.

    But the narc, the hold she has had is over. It is never a pretty picture when someone has been doing this, and so insidiously, I think that it’s a relief, even if I wind up not being able to attend school, just having my freedom is worth every bit of it. I sent one last communication which is going to be shared with her family of narcs. So?

    What I am grateful for is my recovery which has allowed me to realize what was happening, and this forum for helping me unlearn all of this.

    1. Great news, work was cool when I explained both that though no evidence directly, but that if the pass for example has certain dates on it, it’s mine. But that the reason I react the way I do is that the narcissist I mentioned when I took the job wasn’t a boyfriend, it was a family member. So all is still well. Whew!!!!

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