What is functional narcissism? Basically, it’s narcissism that works. Sadly, our environment can be structured in a way that promotes – even rewards narcissistic behavior. We’ve historically seen narcissism as both an aberration and a disturbance or disorder of character. However, our culture of entitlement, permissiveness, and relativism has helped make it more the norm. Moreover, in far too many aspects of modern life, narcissism has actually become quite adaptive.
When something is working, or at least appears to be working, there seems little reason to change things. You’ve heard the adage: “If it’s not broken, don’t fix it!” Folks who find their ways of seeing and doing things working for them and in so many ways have little motivation to change course. So, while most folks think individuals with character disturbances can’t change, the reality is that many times, and for so many reasons, they don’t see sufficient reason to change.
Functional Narcissism and the Relationship Paradox
Where narcissism doesn’t work very well is in fulfilling, intimate relationships. But that doesn’t mean it can’t work at the beginning of a relationship. Many a relationship partner has found him/herself strongly drawn to the confidence, seemingly carefree nature, optimism, and independence they sensed in a narcissistic individual. And many have also found themselves seduced by the intense interest a narcissist might show in them at the outset. Narcissists tend to regard objects of their desire as both potential “trophies” and positive reflections on themselves. And the kind of intense interest they sometimes show in the beginning can really bowl a person over. It takes a while for someone to realize how little value they really have to a narcissist. And by that time, they’ve both invested a lot and suffered plenty.
We live in an age of shallow, growth-stunting relationships. That’s perhaps the greatest tragedy of all. And one of the reasons there’s so much strife at the macro level in society is because we’ve forgotten the basics of healthy relating at the micro level. There was a time when we more carefully vetted potential relationship partners for character. We scrutinized their relationship history carefully. Before we got really involved, we wanted to be reasonably sure just whom we were getting involved with. Sadly those times have long passed.
A New Series
Next week I’ll be inaugurating a new series on relationships and relationship dysfunction. And I’ll be talking more about the cultural changes needed to stem the growth of functional narcissism.
Character Matters will air live again Sunday, Jan 21, 2018, with its new, expanded focus. Call in at (501) 258-8326 to share a story, comment, or ask a question.
The workshop sponsors will finalize this year’s dates by month’s end. Look for information soon on the Seminars page of the blog.
As always, my deepest thanks for your recommending of my books and the articles on this blog to others.
97 thoughts on “Functional Narcissism and Culture”
This is going to be a quite interesting topic.
This may be considered off topic. I would wager the top 1% that own more than the combined 99% are narcissistic. How can anyone live with themselves having more than they can ever need. How can a culture of narcissistic people sleep at night when they know others are starving to death and truly living in “shit holes” and I agree that is what they. However, the people living in them are our brothers and sisters.
Quote from Jesus, “Do unto others as you would do unto yourself. What you do to the least of these you do to me.” Are we our brothers keeper, I would say so…… Narcissists and Psychopaths can watch the likes of the link
below, eat an sleep in peace. This is only the tip of the iceberg.
And they don’t care who they harm in order to get that wage. The wealthy CEOs reap off the labors of the workers, who they pay the lowest wage they can get by with so that their own earnings grow. People these days are not paid a fair wage for their work.
I put many of the legislators in the same greedy boat.
We have just had a major corporation collapse in the U.K
Chairmen were taking massive payouts of bonuses before its end.
20,000 people will maybe lose their jobs.
Functional Narcissism and Culture You got it DOC
Narcissists tend to regard objects of their desire as both potential “trophies” and positive reflections on themselves
My the mother saw me as a parent,a slave, a scapegoat, And an excuse. It was my job to carry both the grandmother and the mother through out their lives.
Both overbearing towards me,gift givers. I wanted for nothing, But had No freedom of choice. I paid no housekeep or rent. I did pay the mother alot of money. The brother would be at the door within an hour and she would give hom the rent I had paid.
She took from me around £9000 in a space of 8mths. She gave the lot to the brother.
I stopped paying her,because I figured,.If I stop; I can prove that I am In her house as HER CHOICE. i.e I pay no rent why am I there. I said that to the police. He had no answer.
I got arrested 4 days before starting a new job. I had also told her I was leaving.
And 3yrs later, I own my own home and earn a good wage. In three yrs I have achieved more than I did in 47 yrs with those diseased creatures.
diseased can mean abnormal and corrupt.
I got told at work they are pleased with me and are happy to have me aboard
When I got in my car( I CAN USE MOTORWAYS MY ANXIETY HAS GONE)
I cryed and laughed my heart out all the way home
It took me about 16 mts to get out. It would have taken only 9mts BUT ? I lost 2 house sales. If I had got the first property I could of mybe have kepted my dog.
My arrest was my LIGHT BULB. Things Got worse for a bit. BUT BOY DID THEY GET BETTER.
I lived in a trailer park(PARK HOME UK) for around 9mths. That’s when the phone calls started. It scared the life out of me. I got a phone call at 21.30 one sunday night, telling me telling me her panic alarm had gone off.(I DID NOT ATTEND) (FCUK THAT)
Basically she was sitting on the floor (HER CHOICE,pretending she can’nt walk) crying wolf. She started this faze of not walking,giving the impression she WAS DISABLED.
I JOEY WOULD HAVE GIVE UP MY JOB AND CARE FOR HER, (FCUK THAT)
This started just at the point I become focused on my own life and needs.
I got my park home sorted, I got 6 rubbish sacks full of clothes, I saw her and said ” I WAS GOING DOWN THE laundrette, to wash my clothes.”
I DID NOT GO BACK FOR 2 WEEKS. I had to return to get more things.( The brother took about £1000 worth of my property ) I did go back about 6 times in total. The last 2 times I got a lawyer involved. So I could get my property. It was designed to threaten them. It worked ! I HAVE RIGHT’S YOU PARASITIC FCKER’S
They own us like objects and we haven’t in their minds a right to breath. You are right we become the parent,the scapegoat, the servant slave and the whipping boy to blame everything on. Its all so sick. The CD used your good nature to suck you dry by quilting you, shaming you and all sorts of nasty manipulative tactics to keep you in that prison.
The important thing is you broke out and realized your worth in so many ways. I am so happy you have your life back and are succeeding to new heights. You deserve all the happiness you can find.
Whats important is you were able to break away and I just love how you
F-them, I say that too. F*&)*&) every last one of CDNSP and never take their slimy filth again. Joey, I want all of the CD out of my life, they are true parasitic leeches.
Joey, if I may ask, did you ever see the mother again after you made the break? I know I can’t even stand the thought of having to around one of them and I won’t if I can help it.
Just know Joey, we all care deeply about you, we want your happiness.
You always put a fond smile on my face when you post. I am just so happy for you. Your post made my day. Again F-them All. Feels good to say it….
From across the ocean, from me to you,
(((((hugs))))) Little Brother.
Joey, if I may ask, did you ever see the mother again after you made the break?
I stated that I did not wish to know when she had died. I said ” You are not going to contact her OWN BROTHER EITHER.
I was informed 3 rd hand of her death. She had NEVER LOVED ME; EVER.
SO BE IT
I could not resist It.
Just how I feel
I like this version better. Just for You and a warm hugs.
I like this version better. Just for You and a warm hugs.
Oh boy Joey. That is harsh! She pretended she couldn’t walk and had you arrested? What a piece of work! It’s amazing your were able to take back control of your life, as that degree of parasitic pathology, spread over a lifetime, would be impossible for most people to deal with in the way you have.
It sounds like your life is going really well. Am SO happy for you!
And yes, we live in a corporate pathocracy, most certainly and you have just given a perfect example. It’s one thing for rats to flee a sinking ship, but how many take big bonuses and raid pension funds befor they do this. Rats are more humane than these types.
Oh Btov, I hear you! I want them out of my life and out of my society! All this focus on being a ‘winner’ is sick. And what is so manipulative is the use of the term, “team player,” In no way does it actually mean the individual employee is anything more than a corporate slave (who can be dismissed at any time) forced to work under the pretence that they are working collectively for the good of ALL.
Capital has a predator relationship with labor now and people feel it. Part of the narcissism of the indivual revolves around a desire to be a winner so that they somehow fall on the capital side of the divide.
There was a class war and big corporations, bonded with the political establishment, won. It started under Reagan and ramped up under the Clintons.
And no, am not a Communist, though I may sound like one! But when I observe all those struggling for crumbs while the new emperors feast, it gives me pause!
Yup! We the people are just being milked for everything. The governments are squandering our money. Inflation is on the increase but wages don’t rise to match it. Nearly every cent goes into the coffers of a greedy elite.
In reality what we are dealing with is a caste class – us vs them hidden behind a word called “democracy”. It’s all an illusion. We are nothing but free range slaves in a pathocracy. The only way we can change this system is by changing our internal world and our relationship to ourselves. This applies to narcs as well.
They were able to disempower us but what we actually did was give our power away to them by sacrificing pieces of ourselves in order to “calm the waters” What we must do is take our power back and align ourselves with the core truth of us because it is the only thing that will set us free of self imposed limitations.
It started way before that……………………….
It started in 1978, Thacher and Reagan. Changed the Economics of the Western World.
ALSO THE THINKING.
The plan was there for a long time before Regan and Thatcher – they commenced implementation. Clinton bought out Russia and got Yeltsin in bed with the capitalist system. Putin’s turned it on it’s ass.
Here is an interesting and little know twist. It was the Russian Federation prior to the Bolshovic Revolution and subsequent implementation of the USSR who went to the aid of the US during the War for Independence.
What is even less known is that the ship of Christopher Columbus the Santa Maria flew the Russian Federation Crest (the double headed phoenix) and a Knights Templar Cross otherwise known as the St Andrews Cross I think. There is a replica of the Santa Maria in the West Edmonton Mall in the US showing both. The double headed phoenix is flown on the stern and the other is flown on the main mast. I found that rather somewhat interesting………………………
Joey do you remember the name of the CD psychologist in Martha Stout’s book The Sociopath Next Door?
Right on point, now lets keep going down the rabbit because it is further than that…………
The rabbit hole is very deep BTOV and once we go down that there is no turning back because the only way out is through……………..some interesting twists and turns in there :-
CD psychologist Martha Stout’s book The Sociopath Next Door?
Doreen Littlefield was her name.
That is why I read The Sociopath Next Door. Doreen Littlefield behaviour was just like my Own Mothers
My The mother was Extremely covetous
Correction: Should read rabbit hole.
CD psychologist Martha Stout’s book The Sociopath Next Door?
Doreen Littlefield was her name.
That is why I read The Sociopath Next Door. Doreen Littlefield behaviour was just like my Own Mothers
My The mother was Extremely covetous
Thanks Joey I knew you’d recall it. I listened to the audio, didn’t read the book. It’s why I prefer reading – it lodges and you have greater recall.
Doreen Littlefield’s behavior is just like my own daughters.
At least I was able to remove her from my life. She began to exhibit CD behavior in her late 20’s. Frightenly she’s just completed a dual degree one of them psychology. To think she’ll be counselling people sends chills up my spine.
It may be that we are puppets-puppets controlled by the strings of
society. But at least we are puppets with perception, with awareness.
And perhaps our awareness is the first step to our liberation.
“And I’ll be talking more about the cultural changes needed to stem the growth of functional narcissism.”
Sure, becaude you know that better than Nietzsche, Buddha or thousands of other philosophers who do know it better than you do.
How about you speak humbly and perhaps at least add a ‘in my opinion’ once in a while.
Because, as you say, we live in a culture where narcissism is considered normal. Especially countries like the States. British people are way more humble, there’s no discussion.
Hmmm….seems we may have a “humble braggart” on board. Perhaps he or she is also the world’s shortest giant.
Boggart anyone? Just blow them up Harry Potter style. Boggarts can be can take any form remember :-
Failing that orange lipstick -passes some to Lisa-
I think I’m getting closer to understanding the underlying principle of the orange lipstick and why it works. I think it aligns with what is known in neurolinguistic programing as a “break state”. I think this is what puts narcs off about bright orange lipsticks and outrageous hats ets and other ridiculous things.
This is from http://www.hypnosis101.com
You can break even the strongest states (sometimes), by doing something outlandish, or even distracting. Here’s an example of some guys who did just that.
Warning: There is swearing and some violence in this video [but it’s funny as hell].
Notice how the unexpected action takes these folks out of angry, fighting mad. Most of them run away! I wouldn’t recommend doing that in a session, but you can use the principle. You can interrupt a state by asking about the painting on the wall, asking the person the 5th digit of their phone number, or by spilling something.
So, you anchor one state, break state, then anchor the next.
If you are suddenly on the end of a narc attack then just do something totally ludicrous and rediculous – suddenly act all retarded anything that would encourage a break state and freak them out!
We are coming up to Australia Day it’s likely there may be the odd Boggart about, I’ll try it and let you know how I go :- It is likely to be a bit unfair though as I will already be armed with bright orange lipstick, outrageous hat and I’m wearing my tail -wicked grin-
NOTE FROM DR. SIMON: PUTTING LINKS (TWO OR MORE) TO OTHER WEB PAGES IN ANY COMMENT TRIGGERS A WARNING TO OUR WEBMASTER THAT THE SITE MIGHT UNDER A SPAM ATTACK OR OTHER HACK. I’M APPROVING THIS COMMENT BUT I URGE COMMENTATORS TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT PUTTING LINKS IN COMMENTS, ESPECIALLY LINKS TO OTHER CONTROVERSIAL FIGURES OR CONTENT. THANKS!!
Thanks Dr Simon for the note alerting me to this fact. Much appreciated.
It is duly noted for future reference. I thought it was the warning on the clip itself why it was sitting in moderation. Thanks for allowing it through.
To the others. I put this up yesterday to give a demonstration of “break scripts” and it is a tad controversial but it shows how they work. For all intents and purposes it could have been a set up. However, it’s a demonstration and I have actually proven this myself. Although it’s not a course of action I’d recommend it was for purposes of demonstration only.
I actually did do something like this once, not because I was testing a “break script” I friend of mine is Bi Polar and he was behaving a bit stupidly because he was offended by something. He upset to biker type dudes who occassionally come to town but they don’t stir trouble. My friend was stiring them up despite me telling him to not worry about them.
He did something really dumb as they were leaving and they stopped the car and 3 of them jumped out to go for him. I ended up jumping in front of them as my BP friend was running back into the hall. I figured they weren’t going to punch their way through me to get to him and they didn’t. It was more of a reflex action on my part not putting anything to the test. Anyway it did stop them, they weren’t expecting it and it had the effect of turning off their aggression.
It’s safer to stick to orange lipstick!
Eudoxia, LisaO, Joey
Can you help me understand why there’s a need to respond to someone if you don’t like their post? It amounts to a playground mentality where children tauntingly saying to each other ARE TOO!….AM NOT!
Practice what you speak “don’t give your energy to it”
I did advise this before. If you say GOOOODBYE, You will take away what they want. You take away THEIR POSITION. Do’nt argue JUST SAY BYEEEEE, then leave. You are in control of your self, if you are NOT THERE YOU CANNOT GIVE THEM THEIR POWER.
You must be prepaired to be rude to someone, or even insult them. You cannot be nice all the time.
This of course is not what you ever,ever,ever want. BUT TO THOSE AGGRESSIVE TYPES IT MEANS YOU AN’NT A PUSH OVER.
“I WILL GO DOWN FIGHTING.”
They are counting on your conscience, in order to use and manipulate you.
You have to be able to be use the threat of your dark side, It is the only thing
we have that can keep you safe.
I agree absolutely.
I found what is is about bright orange lipstick – it operates as a break script
Anything like that being outrageous, stretching unexpectedly anything sudden that breaks their trajectory stops them dead in their tracks
Throws them off their neural trajectory altogether
Trips a wire you could say but in the right way :-
I watched a clip today by a bunch of guys showing just this
They were on the street about to be punched
Then BANG they did something completely outrageous
And it just stopped their attackers cold – most of them ran off!
It could save your life one day – it’s handy knowing this stuff
Bully’s only ever pick on cowards those who stand up for themselves are left alone
I do agree with this statement of Byeee…… as you are giving them nothing, at the same time Byeee…….says I have nothing for you, you are insignificant. It ends everything. you are right on this point.
Dealing with hostile and unsafe scenarios/attackers are a whole different situation then someone foaming dribble.
Refuse to be a victim and the rules of engagement are a whole different ballgame. I have had considerable training in self defense and also the legalities of the rules of engagement with criminals, attackers and such and they are the CDNSP in our society. There are ways to be proactive in these situations and it is wise to always be aware of ones environment.
Eudox, in these types of situations I wholeheartedly agree with you.
Saying BYE means you respect your own sanity, your own space, your own energy.
I need to remember this. When the SB starts it up, repeat in my mind BYE.
“I think we may all have our own ways of dealing with the CD”
Yes we do, I prefer to go into a more light hearted approach these days probably because I’ve lightened up and I have considerably.
If a forum or blog is compromised by a very rude poster, it IS probably best to starve them of oxygen, if they come back at you, repeatedly. Doesn’t hurt to defenestrate them in response to their first post though.
There is no one perfect set of responses and it depends on what kind of rude person is being dealt with. A subtly rude charmer you want to walk away from, as engaging can make YOU look bad.
But an overt clown? They are fair game on a blog about manipulative types, rude people etc…as long as response is short and sweet.
This is actually a useful discussion. An example of how the, “just walk away, ignore them,” badly misfires is on the playground. For decades this is how kids were advised to react to bullies. Teachers and parents didn’t involve themselves.
To a schoolyard bully walking away can be taken for a sign of weakness. Anyway, we know now that bullying has to be dealt with quickly and effectively and adults MUST get involved.
Lisa – is sure is a useful discussion because it is what we make it and let’s make it count! :-
Defenstrate – great word! I’ve never heard that word before I had to google it!
Schoolyard bullying is one of the most tragic activities allowed to take place EVER. I believe it was deliberately implemented by educational system curriculum in order to encourage and create disempowerment. Particularly in public schools. Keep the people in their place etc.
Moving to the elite schools – what goes on there. More of the same except in spades. They are encouraged to heavily compete it becomes the “norm” (there’s that word again) then bullying is always rife and it always comes in packs of those who appear to “have more” encourages entitlement. They are continually taught they are the cream of the crop – encourages a superior and judgemental attitude. Then they leave school and grow up and run the world. Narcissism is RIFE in elite educational facilities.
It is any wonder this place is a mess. If we want to change things it wont be a trickle down effect it will be a grass roots effect. If we want to see change then we need to be the change we want to see.
Another Hermatic Principle states “as within, so without” if we want to change the outside we must change the inside.
I would agree, this is a stratagem used in the public school systems to dis-empower susceptible youth. I came from a parochial system 55 years back. I know the teachers knew this bullying went on and they remained quiet. Looking back at how stern many of these teachers were I think they enjoyed the bullying especially by their pet students. I also think they got some sick satisfaction by turning a blind eye and letting it go on.
I have to use much restraint to not respond to taunting. I have to disengage, cool down, think before I react. I’m so accustomed to being on the defense that it’s now a reaction to bite back.
However, I’ve learned that it’s in MY best interest to not respond and turn away. Of course, I’m only human. I do mess up quite often.
This is an excellent post by Linda Martinez-Lewi PhD
Narcissistic Family Members Always Deny Truth
If you a member of a narcissistic family–whether you are the child of a narcissistic mother or narcissistic father or both, or the brother or sister of a narcissistic sibling or are married to a narcissist, always remember that you hold the truth. Narcissists live in a state of grandiose delusion of their making. More powerful and influential narcissists in the family put pressure on those who are more dependent personalities to convince them to go along to get along with them. I have had contact with many victims of narcissistic family abuse who have spent years at the mercy of their narcissistic families, including their spouses. For years and even decades those individuals in these pathological families who are free of delusion and know and speak the truth are ostracized and become the target of disdain, humiliation and shunning. Often their family members let everyone know that they have a very sick and confused person in their midst. They spread rumors about you when you are the only one who knows the truth about yourself and them and their multitude of secrets and treacheries. In other cases the narcissists in the family pretend that you don’t exist and make you invisible and non-existent in their minds and through their actions.
Narcissists turn reality upside down and sideways and spin it in continuous circles of lies, deceptions, cruelties and betrayals. What they hate the most is the truth because deep in their unconscious they are psychologically empty, filled with rage and self hatred. They are incapable of self understanding or introspection or empathy. Their identity is a charade, a false self that developed when they were very young and will never change.
Remarkably, there are individuals who persevere, research, work through through their personal insights, develop practices that lead them to deeper awareness who come from these highly toxic families and marriages. They gain greater strength and thrive as they extricate themselves from their pathological relationships. It is a different path that they take and a difficult one. So often they feel completely alone. No one understands them or will listen. But they don’t give up. They pursue the pathway less traveled that leads to an ever evolving consciousness, increased creativity, a deep wish to share their truth with others who are receptive. I have deep respect and a special place inside for those who have won this battle for the truth. They are heroic extraordinary individuals. You are not alone. There are so many others who share you life experiences. Be receptive to finding these individuals. I have found that as the society becomes more narcissistic and even sociopathic, there are people whom you will meet that have a high consciousness that always seeks the truth, that welcomes it in you and with whom you can communicate deeply. Trust your intuition to know who these individuals are. Their numbers are growing. You will find them. Work with the loving parts of yourself and appreciate who you are every day, each moment. You are precious and no one like you will ever come into existence again. You are a singular human being. Celebrate this; use every part of yourself. You have resources deep inside that are waiting to be tapped, creativity that is spun gold and a heart that is both receptive and strong.
Linda Martinez-Lewi, Ph.D.
Me and my family ????
Thanks for you input SYdNey – I was giving my energy to Lisa and I believe that is between Lisa and myself.
I read the post yesterday and thought, oh well, another problem person stumbled in.
I agree with you Sydney, we should not give our precious energy to ridiculous comments.
It reminds me of when in a court hearing, one of the CD egging another on, be it the lawyer or the client to get another to respond. Rule of law and advice by a professional lawyer, do not validate the response with an answer. When one does you go down to the level of the CD by validating their position. You also appear to the judge as immature as the person who try to give life to nonsense.
Quite the contrary BTOV – from what I have discovered during this journey is this.
The one thing CD loath above all else is being shown they have no power over others
The second is being ridiculed
There are ways to turn off their attack scripts they are running
One of them is being ridiculous – that’s a fact because I’ve proven it
It also reprograms our neural pathways – it re-writes the “fear of them” scripts
Eventually we will disassociate with those scripts
I don’t know about you but I’d rather have no fear scrips at all
Makes for a happier, more harmonious life
I am not longer going to cower in silence or fear of narcs
I’m taking my power back
I think we may all have our own ways of dealing with the CD. I have found that not engaging or responding to unnecessary or ridiculous comments a waste of time and energy. In this respect I have been successful and do wisely pick my battles. By not responding you show the CD has no power to affect you by words, by not responding you show what they said is Insignificant for one to even use their breath to respond to.
I am not afraid of the CD, three that I deal with are Psychos, in fact one went to prison for taking out a contract to murder someone besides other things. The details I can’t discuss here. In response to their comments to engage me, I don’t respond or in the alternative I respond with “Call the Police.”
I have other ways to deal with the CD but find the most useful response is not giving any credence to their ignorance. Why offer a CD the opportunity to engage in their ignorance, that is exactly what they want. Yes, the CD hate to be ridiculed, I am not in the game for making fun of or continuing a go nowhere banter of ignorance. The CD also don’t care if they are ridiculed if it will add to the supply they are looking for. If the CD has no personal interest in you they also don’t care and slough of ridicule with a sinister laugh.
There are times when one must engage with the CD and I think those should be well thought out. I don’t have to have the last word in everything. I am in no way cowering to the CD. In fact the three I have to deal with are afraid of me as they know when they push me I will be a force to be reckoned with.
I took my power back a long time ago, I have no fear scripts, I am not afraid of them and they know it. I don’t respond to almost all of their negative ramblings, I could care less. If the CD want to play with me they will pay and they know it, I am not into games, this is to serious. All I can say is “Make My Day” and they know this..
I do not live in fear of anyone……………
This person is always
In my opinion you’ve given the poster known as The British Superiority due to superior humility way too much printed real estate.
Am I reading into this right that some of you feel this poster is a CD, because he made a comment you didn’t like? If so I’d say he is one of the most pathetic examples as the poster’s comments are fairly benign if you ask me. The comment was directed at Dr. Simon and I’m confident he can handle it no?
From my perspective saying BYE and calling the poster a humble braggart, boggart or whatever does not have the affect in writing as it would if you were interacting with someone in person. If “we” had just continued on topic with zero acknowledgment of The British Superiority’s post then I think the message would have been louder.
Everybody is perfectly entitled to their own reality SYdNey and the way people perceive their reality never or rarely going to be the same as yours or mine. It’s a matter of perception because we all have our own unique filters. It’s the elephant in the room and everyone has a part of it.
There is no truth just perceptions of it – Gustave Flaubert
The problem being in the grand scheme of things is people judging others for their difference in perception and holding them to account for it. Life is simply a paradox and always has been.
“There is no truth just perceptions of it” is dangerous. It lets people believe their lies.
Better is to say…
There is only one version of truth, rest are just perceptions, opinions etc.
Dangerous territory Andy why?
Because I understand Flaubert’s quote but we are walking into esoteric ground and teachings here which fly in the face of normality (I hate that word). But as I oppose normality so…………………..
Perhaps Flabubert came to his realisation of this on his own – who knows – not me. I suspect he acquired his knowledge from The 7 Hermetic Principles of which I am familiar. These are esoteric in nature making it somewhat controversial for many people.
In short it means that only God can know the truth of all things as God is the Master Creator of our worlds and Universes – LIFE – CREATION itself in all it’s forms etc.
Therefore I have to concur with Gustave Flaubert on this point.
Nobody can know the truth of all things – this is not unreasonable.
I did not take that quote in broader sense “only God know the truth of all things”.
I had taken that quote in narrower sense. In this case, giving more weight to perception over truth may lead to someone stating that because I think so, hence it is, full 100%. Whereas if one gives more weight to truth over ones perception, then it keeps a check as someone will say so and so is my perception which is more or less, 99% accurate.
This is how I understand it. Therefore it is a perception. We all view our experiences through a set of filters dependent on our paradigm or world view. Which is how we view ourselves in relationship to the world.
As no two people will ever be exactly the same with exactly the same world view (even twins) then our experiences are all filtered before we can draw a conclusion as to what we have experienced.
Two people can experience the same event but can apply two totally different interpretations to that event. As they have witnessed the same thing (and this has been proven time and time again) but have a different perception/understanding of it then how can truth be ascertained if they were the only two witnesses?
Hence Flaubert’s statement.
I could have presented my initial post differently and said;
British Superiority was quoting and directing his comment to Dr. Simon, and so my perception is this: Dr. Simon’s actions have spoken louder than words.
It doesn’t matter really, it has evolved into an excellent discussion anyway. I think we have all benefited from it and in all honesty I have found some of the most interesting discussions I have every had evolved out of conflict and disagreement.
I have formed really solid friendships with many of those who I first had disagreement with. If they are of biophilic orientation you actually expand and grow because you are able to elaborate and explain your position without being judged.
These conversations just “flow” they are actually beneficial and allow a deeper level of understanding to develop between people and people can often end up with a great deal of respect and appreciation for each other due to patience and perseverance without judgement.
Of course we will leave CD out of this one because well in the words of Carol King “you can’t talk to a man with a shotgun in his hand” …………..
These posts are going all over the place again…………………
Arrogance coupled with insult coming right out of left field is best countered with silence OR humour. Either way, the rude individual is given the distinct impression that they aren’t being taken seriously.
With humour, you don’t want to be cruel but you do want to carefully dispatch the offender AND disable their ability to come back at you.
It’s called implementing a boundary we are simply protecting our own space. How we do that is our concern and it should not bother anybody else. Similarly to how we all choose to stack our own fridge.
Not only where our actions condemned by our respective CDs so they were when we were kids. Our parents were just as capable of making us feel guilty for expressing joy or humor so we learned to suppress our own authenticity.
This healing journey is about re-connecting to my authentic self not how to act in accordance to how others think we should.
Those days are gone.
This blog is about how to deal with rude twerps, many of whom are character disordered.
Superior Humility made a few undercutting remarks, in a snide manner, to the good doctor. ANYTHING but humble in nature and then went on to highlight that American culture is more prone to Narcissism than British culture because the British are more humble!
As this blog is largely about arrogance and other character flaws and disorders, it seems more than appropriate to offer up this clown up as a case study.
The moral equivalency argument of, “aren’t you doing the same thing he (or she) is?” doesn’t fly.
Those who clearly transgress a boundary by being very rude should expect to be cut off at the knees.
I don’t tolerate it…ever. And btw, ultimately, it’s what protected me from further abuse at the hands of a psychopath, many years ago.
He dropped me like a hot rock after I let him know in a very finite way that I wouldn’t tolerate xyz and there would be no further discussion of the matter. He tried and I would not budge, not one millimetre.
Lisa 0 . Well aren’t you a “ special angel” . Notice the quotation marks around those 2 words . I’m reading your posts, and am quite amused . I lol ( laughed out loud) , at quite a few of them . But, darling , you need a reality check . It’s time . Are you ready ? Girls like you ….. Lol . Your train of thought has left the station a long time ago . Do you really think that you call the shots 100% of the time ? In life ? “Ignoring and using humour“ or being this self described “ pseudo tough dominant feminist “ to prove a point , doesn’t work on men with higher confidence, and not to be arrogant , are just smarter psychologically than you . Remember Agent double 0 Zero : ( Your new status ) It’s only a game, when one of the parties is unaware that they are being played . Comprendes ? Does that seem clear to you ? Ok good . Go ahead . Ignore this . Throw humour to try and 1 up me . You’ll most likely assume that Im one of those narcissists. . Hate to say this agent 00 -0 but you won’t win . 🙂 One final word Lisa…
Get more hugs from Mom and Dad and have a wonderful life .
PS: Miss Eudoxia.. West Edmonton mall is in Canada . Not US. You are wrong about Columbus and the Russian Federation flag .
People have been conditioned to believe they have to relate in ways that represents the social norm? To be normal…………when you think about it what is NORMAL? That’s a word that has always confounded me. One person’s normal is another person’s abnormal.
There is really no such thing given the diversity of LIFE on Earth. Everything has it’s opposite what is the opposite of normal? It’s not a logical word is it? It is an illogical word. I have therefore created a brand new acronym of NORMAL
Life consists of individual forms of expression and being. It’s what Erich Fromm referred to in his term “biophilic” as opposed to “necropholic”
Erich Fromm was acutely sensitive to this fact when he broadened the definition of necrophilia to include the desire of certain people to control others-to make them controllable, to foster their dependency, to discourage their capacity to think for themselves, to diminish their unpredectibility and originalty, to keep them in line. Distinguishing it from a “biophilic” person, one who appreciates and fosters the variety of life forms and the uniqueness of the individual, he demonstrated a “necrophilic character type,” whose aim it is to avoid the inconvenience of life by transforming others into obedient automatons, robbing them of their humanity.
Dr M Scott Peck – People of the Lie
I think I’m quite happy when it comes to social norms which originated out of an outdated religious paradigm anyway to be considered abnormal or unsane. I’m happy with that :-
All we can do is walk our truth and stay in our integrity and not compromise ourselves by cow towing to an outdated paradigm and insane whird.
One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.
Or in other words
“It is no measure of heath to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society” Krishnamurti
But what would I know I’m a weirdo!
You are one lovely weirdo from another weirdo!
Hugs you sweet thing
Well I am one very tired weirdo now BTOV
Just been in the yard brushcutting it must have grown at least 6 inches in the past week. Keeping this place under control in the dog days of summer is challenging but at least it keeps my dopamine levels up!
Going to have a nice cool shower and wash my hair! eekkkk………I’m covered in grass and need a bath! I am currently enjoying a nice cold beer -cheers-
Then I’m going to chill out and watch a movie
Eudoxia : “ 1 man’s trash, is another man’s treasure .” I like that. . Totally applies to my dating life . A few girls have actually said this after it’s over . Lol . It’s the same type of euphemism as :
“No matter how attractive a woman is , there is always some dudes, that are sick and tired of dealing with her bs, and bored silly of sleeping with her .“ . You give intellectual comments a whole new realm . In other words . Good job . No, I’m not being sarcastic .
We make a living by what we get,
but we make a life by what we give.
Well, I was attacked on an internet site because of my belief in God and all these people just piled on saying awful things. The question of the OP was “Do you believe in God” and so I was simply responding. I think of the scripture verse “a soft answer turns away wrath”. I guess in translation that would mean no fuel for the fire. I should have just exited the website instead of taking the bait, I didn’t know it was a trap. Superior humility is not a humble statement at all, and it sounded like bait to me.
Religion has been used as a policy for thousands of years. It wasn’t introduced to empower the people quite the opposite it was implementation of a “divide and conquer” strategy and it’s worked a charm.
It’s not wise to get into conversations about God because – well…………………..nobody is going to agree unless they are a clone of another person and two – God or the concept of God is personal to each individual and it comes down to the elephant in the room again.
EU-I understand your point of view, mine is quite different. We will have to agree to disagree on this. And I’m good with that. I know this is not a site or place in which to evangelize, but I don’t hide my faith and the fact that I am a Christian either. And I think its fine to express my thoughts as others on here do also, no offense meant.
Absolutely none taken kat
Our spiritual beliefs are our most personal relationship. All of us define that relationship in one way or another or many times let another do that. It is our personal decision and no one else’s and it should be respected. It always does not mean you can’t bring that part of which is you up here. Most of us believe in different ways and that should always be respected.
Dr. Simon’s third book, The Judas Syndrome was written strictly for the faith based community. Personally, I am not a religious person but am a Christian. If your Christianity and faith is what holds your life together that is a good thing just as whatever another chooses is good for them.
No one hear is going to give you a hard time over this. Prayer has been my saving grace during many dark times for me.
BTOV, I agree that we should respect others beliefs as long as they are not harmful to others. When I post a scripture verse I am using that as a determinant for my behavior, I use it as my own guidance and do not have any expectations of others adopting the same. I am hoping others don’t think I am saying they should do the same, I am speaking for myself only. My faith is sometimes like a mustard seed, but I am growing and that’s what counts to me. I am speaking only for myself, but without my faith I never would have forgiven the Ex for the damage he did to me and most especially our children. Of course that meant NC and I didn’t forget, he was not safe to go around and never would be, but it helped to get the bitterness and self-pity out of my spirit. Blessing to you as well BTOV.
Feel free to post whatever verses you like, I do all the time. I post from many philosophers and so does everyone else. We are trying to get a point across from the wisdom that is expressed, we are not trying to convert anyone. One can take it or leave it, it also is in the spirit of how it is said. I think you will find we are all very respectful to each other in this regard. Many times we learn things we were never aware of. I hope that helps.
I agree with BTOV – post what ever you like. Sorry my post should have been worded a little differently I was referring to organised religions specifically and I mean all of them.
Everybody has their own relationship to God. I often quote from the Bible as well and I am not a Christian – I am a deeply spiritual being and I take the best teaching from all disciplines. It amounts to what resonated within me – there is great wisdom to be found in all of it.
What my main point was referring to but wasn’t made clear was this continual war about Alah vs God etc and the b/s that goes on there – it’s time this planet and it’s population grew up and learned to respect each other’s beliefs.
Eudox, I think you were clear and many of your fundamental points on religion I agree with. As far as I am concerned its another tool that is used in society to conquer and divide. All’s well and glad everyone is at ease with this. I know people can get carried away…
All’s well Kat.
Glad you expanded further on this Eudox.
BTOV, EU thanks, I always say two heads are better than one, I have learned a lot about CD behavior on this site and I can empathize with those who have lived with them and have come out the other side healthier and more aware. A whole lot of people don’t know this stuff and are in contact with a CD who is really messing with their mind. I am glad that I won’t be attacked if I quote a verse that means a lot to me now and then, there are other sites where Christians seem to be fair game to abuse. I agree that wisdom is wisdom and truth is truth no matter the source. I referred an acquaintance to the book “wolf in sheeps clothing” because her ex was a CD who turned everyone in her church against her. I don’t know if she followed thru, but as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Sometimes people don’t believe who these CD really are, that they will do these things for no other reason than “winning” in their own minds.
Kat : You should feel sorry for people who do not acknowledge or believe in God or a higher power .
Just tell them to listen to that song from that 80’s rock band Twisted Sister:
“ You’re Gonna Burn In Hell “
I worked with kids for quite a few years. I found that bullying really picked up in the 80’s, as the middle class began disappearing and kids became more class conscious and focussed more on what they had rather than who they were. Little girls by the age of 6 and 7 years old were aware of designer labels!
This is an excellent post by Linda Martinez-Lewi PhD
Narcissistic Family Members Always Deny Truth
This decribes my life experience
I actually got yelled at for “You Don’t Air Your Families Dirty Laundry.”
Its sick, they abuse you and then tell you you don’t have a right to tell anyone. The are again defining ones reality and then guilt tripping for have the audacity to complain.
Joey, my parents never told me they loved me either. I was just there, there to take care of the younger 6 kids. The sad part is is if we grow up with these scripts we are subject to replay them over and over until we eject these false tapes. The sad part was at that time we didn’t have access to all the resources we have today.
They punch you in the face then expect you to apologise to them for them hurting their hand. It’s the nature of the beast BTOV.
All of her articles have been to date, I read another article on narc siblings as well and it cut straight to the chase. She could have been talking about my own sister. Masters of betrayal as even children and I know that full well.
You’ll never be disrespected by me for your beliefs.
The character disordered hide behind a fortress of religious quotes. They claim to want to help you but really they are taking apart their own fortress or façade brick by brick and flinging it at you. In the end they have nothing left to throw and end up exposing themselves for what they are.
You are using the bible in a healthy way and you are as gentle as a feather doing so. Nobody should take exception to that. I appreciate what you write
Everyone collects quote, religious or otherwise. While a normal person use them to guide themselves, a character disturbed person use them to divert others.
So, as long as someone is not preaching a quote to me, it is alright.
I should have said pseudo religious wars that have occured on this planet which were actually an elite class using politics and religion as a front for them invading other counties.
Northern Ireland and the Middle East complexities are such examples – religion had absolutely nothing do with either of these take overs. If you take any map of proposed oil pipelines which we had at the last company I worked for. It shows all the oil pipelines and proposed oil pipelines and by whom (corporations). Low and behold guess where all the trouble spots and wars are. All under the guise of not only religion but apparent dictators??? B/S.
You got it all the countries that are operating outside of US interests or rather in a countries own sovereign interests of its own country are the countries where there have been wars and so called dictators so the US can ride in and save the day – the last was Syria (that failed thankfully).
As with BTOV’s post yesterday – these corporations go in and absolutely decimate the country, steal the resources and impoverish the people all hidden under a pretext of dictatorship or religious wars – it’s all B/S and God has nothing to do with it. The psychopaths at the top of the pyramid have everything to do with it.
Power to the People! Wake Up World!
Kat honey – post whatever you like you’ll get no judgement from me – big hugg to you
Look what the TPTB did to Libya, all one has to do is open their eyes and follow the events that led up to the assignation of Kadafi. All one has to do is follow the psychopaths power link and the money trail. What always follows is death and destruction to the innocent. Pull the wool away from your eyes and wake up. We have been bought and sold by the psychopaths since the beginning of time.
Put it this way BTOV I was working for a certain corporation at the time, one of our guys was over there before he got sent back to our office. Things were most certainly not as they were reported. And this is just one of the many examples why I turned off my TV a long time ago. I don’t even own one now and never will again
I watched via computer two banking CEOs get grilled by congress via CSpan and it was one of the greatest eye openers of psychopathic strategies I’ve ever seen – no wonder this world is in the mess it’s in with them running the show! And congress won’t stand up to them either – they should all be in jail but nobody was charged.
Malignant economic and political narcissism lead to corporatism, the perfect merging of corporations and the state. That is fascism. And it’s not an hysterical slogan. It is now the reality.
It has existed way before the term corporation was was coined.
Ditto – nor is it a “conspiracy theory” it is a hard core reality everything is a corporation even people – no kidding. I spent years of research on this and put it to the test – we are chattel of the State.
You got that right, Sister. Surprise, surprise, what a varmint hole this is, it like the Price is Right, you got the guts to venture on down……. They say curiosity killed the cat..
You’ll never guess what color lipstick they react to?
To All and especially BTOV
They have given me ALOT MORE WORK.
I wiil be doing around 65hr a week for the next 2 mths. So I will not post as much.
Spring has arrived early in my part of the UK. The snow drops are up. I sincerely wish EVERYONE all the Happyness in the World.
Thanks for letting me know, you know you have a special place in my heart.
I will watch for your posts and will know you working hard.
I hope all things work out well for you and wish you the very best always. You have come a long way and I am so proud of you.
Be well and many blessings Little Brother and Kindred Spirit
i remember reading how the researcher of mental disorders …
Theodore millon …
mentioned a form of narcissism as perhaps the healthiest type
and seemed to speak of himself as a SECURE NARCISSIST….
“The most significant memory of my youth (apart from the periodic
loneliness of being an only child) was my father’s all-consuming
affection for me (the roots of my secure narcissism, I am sure), most
charmingly illustrated by the fact that he brought home a gift for me
(toy, game, book) every working day from the time I was two until I
here is a link for info on secure narcissism
here is a quote from the above site
“empathetic towards others and engage in constructive conflict behaviors”
I would be interested if such is mentioned on this site…..
and is so ..how it is termed ….