Fighting Dirty Destroys Relationships

Fighting Dirty

Fighting dirty has destroyed many a relationship. (Please forgive the admitted grammatical incorrectness!) Now, I’ve been making the point that we humans naturally fight and quite a lot. Fighting is simply a part of life, and a much bigger part than many realize or admit. And I’ve also been making the point that neither our anger nor our aggressive instincts are inherently evil. Nature endowed us with both for very good reasons. We’re supposed to take offense at a genuine injustice. And righteous anger is designed to propel us into taking corrective action. But just how we go about that makes all the difference in the world.

Unfortunately, some people simply want to dominate. So, they’re always fighting for position. (See: p. 200 in Character Disturbance.) In some human enterprises I suppose that’s not always such a horrible thing. But it’s a big problem when it comes to truly intimate, mutually respectful relationships. And when a person wants to win, be on top, and in control too badly, they sometimes stop at nothing. Such destructive fighting wreaks havoc in relationships.

Fighting dirty is fighting without principle-guided limits and boundaries. It’s placing winning over everything. And it’s using whatever tactics or psychological “weapons” you can think of to secure the dominant position.

Covert Aggressors

Well over 25 years ago, I was given a gift. Aggrieved relationship partners were telling me some very similar stories. They told me how “crazy” they felt. And they were showing signs of depression. They couldn’t make sense of their relationship partner’s behavior. In their gut, they felt their partner was simply out to win, dominate or control. But they couldn’t objectively prove it. When they confronted their partner, they would deny wrongdoing. Or, they would offer an “explanation” that seemed to make sense. Worse, they would somehow make it seem like they were the victim or their accuser was actually the villain. So, they began doubting what their gut told them must be true. And, accordingly, they ended up feeling crazy.

What I learned from all the stories inspired me to write In Sheep’s Clothing. And at the time, we had no label for the “crazy-making” behavior we now call gaslighting. (See: pp. 133-137 in In Sheep’s Clothing.) (See also: Covert Aggression Causes Gaslighting.) Over a million copies later in several countries all over the world attest to the widespread nature of this phenomenon . The gist of the book is simple: manipulators are a special breed of dirty fighters. They’re covert-aggressors. They use a variety of clever “tactics” to appear benign while getting the better of you. And they cloak their aggressive nature under a veil of civility. They’re adept at the art of impression management. (See also:

Psychology’s Failure

For too long the major psychology paradigms overly focused on people’s fears and insecurities. In fact, some paradigms frame every maladaptive behavior as a manifestation of a person’s fears or insecurity. Few paradigms have adequately focused on people’s aggressive tendencies. And fewer still get it right when it comes to understanding the actual typical motives for aggressive behavior. This is tragic. When those you go to for help can’t see the problem for what it truly is, you can’t possibly get the help you need. Worse, you may even end up feeling re-victimized. These days, we recognize this phenomenon. And some refer to it as therapy-induced trauma. (See also: Character Disturbance: Getting the Right Kind of Help.)

An Example

I remember the first time someone dragged their serially philandering spouse in for a session in an attempt to save their failing marriage. They’d been in counseling before, to no avail. The husband was, by nature, a sensation-seeker. And he had significant empathy deficits. Additionally, in his eyes, pretty women, were objects to possess and toys to play and gratify with. And in his sense of superiority and feelings of entitlement, he saw those he was able to charm and seduce as fair prey to exploit. Still, the counselor the couple had seen before assumed his problem must be a “fear of intimacy.” Moreover, the counselor assumed that fear was rooted in insecurity and a compensatory need to prove worth.

No wonder this poor woman got no help! The lack of true intimacy and mutual regard in her relationship was no doubt the problem. But it wasn’t rooted in her partner’s fear or insecurity. I would have to confront some very different issues before things could get better. And along the way I’d have to develop the art of benign confrontation. (See also: Learning to Confront Benignly and Effectively.) I’d especially have to confront this woman’s partner’s penchant for fighting dirty. It was just one of the many manifestations of his character disturbance.

Tidbits

Next week I’ll be talking about fighting fairly and constructively. And I’ll have some examples to share.

 

36 thoughts on “Fighting Dirty Destroys Relationships

  1. I don’t have a lot to add to this, the crazy making is what I have always called it from day one, before I ever even heard the term gaslighting just a few years ago. Or “that crazy stuff.” Which in my view is the definition of fighting dirty. It undermines the “opponent” or the other person. Covert or not, it is an aggressive form of fighting. And now when I smell it, I walk (or run) in the other direction. No matter where I encounter it, best thing to do when you encounter this? Don’t give it any oxygen. I know there is discussion in this post about providing strategies for fair fighting, which I have seen before, but narcissists, they don’t exactly abide by anyone’s rules but their own. I had attempted to use them with my mother (15 rules for fair fighting) but when you are the only one fighting fair, it isn’t going to be a fair fight.

    1. JC, I agree, there can’t be a two way street with narcs. I have been trying to fight fairly too but I see its futile. I am not going to manipulate in return, that’s not part of my value system. They don’t leave you much of a choice but to disengage.

    2. JC
      You hit the nail on the head. They don’t follow rules, and your statement to not give it oxygen is the best advice. These narc relationships just are not worth one’s time and energy. It’s a hard lesson to learn, going through it all with a narc, but once you finally realize the effort is not worth the relationship (at least mine wasn’t), that walking away is easier than dealing with it, and more healthy.

      1. To All,

        It sure is an it, are they even human???? I just encountered one and found myself trying to defend myself then its like this individual starts cross examining me, trying to put me on the defensive. Then, it hit me, “I don’t need to answerr you.”

        WoW, these sick individuals crawl out of the the woodwork or out of the inner skins they cover with their niceties. All of a sudden the bell went off and I stated, this is what we need to talk about, discuss it or otherwise, as one of our posters states “Good bye.” Which I did say…..

        Yes, even the slightly disordered fight dirty. I hate to say it but we must stay on guard at all times. Once used, once burned, once objectified, once, once, to me is Never Again… These individuals I will pray for and that is all I can do for them otherwise I am asking for being a victim and that I am done with.

        All these human leaches need to be starved and salted. Truly, unless they have their true come to Jesus Moment with true contrition, I want no part of them.

        I will share a true “Come to Jesus” which happened with one of my sons having cancer. He is the difference between light and day. This son gives all credit to Jesus healing him spiritually, physically and spiritually.

        All I can say is, wha just happened with this son one can’t make this kind of stuff up, the doctors are astounded and doctors from around the world were consulted in his case. The cancer is gone, no chemo, surgery yes, but of this date and he goes in for regular exams the cancer is gone. The doctors are in awe.

        My son is like a changed person, so Jesus does work in us. Have I been burned by this son, Yes. However, this sons testimony is compelling and his actions are speaking volumes. He is like another person and others have remarked the same.

        Truly, this type of healing is by the Holy Spirit. I am still cautious, but his actions and above all his humility and I will iterate Humility is KEY.

        I will say this son never was as distinctly selfish as that of what I have seen in others or my younger son. I can only say, this son has had his “Come to Jesus Moment” and he actually says this himself.

        I think his gratitude will endure and this is where as his Mother I can build a positive position to reinforce his commitment to Jesus and change.

        We all pick and choose our course in life, though we did not chose our parents or circumstances. Like JC, she rose above to where she is now, where she is sharing and giving words of wisdom and uplifting others.

        Above all, my adopted brother Joey, has inspired me to grow beyond. I miss Joey who has lifted me up when I felt I had no one, who made me feel I meant something to someone and for that am forever grateful.

        Fight on, all of you wonderful Kindred Spirits, never, ever let anyone pull you down. When I hear and know the accomplishments all of you have made in your lives I am full of happiness for all of you and rejoice in your success.

        Keep on your paths of growth and above all keep sharing your sadness and successes, because, each and every one of you have made a dfference in anothers life wether you know it or not. I just know Dr. Simons blog and so many of you have made a difference in my life and for that I am grateful.

        Dear Lucy, you have come so far, it is amazing and above such horrible odds and obstacles you haven risen above.

        I know this topic was about dirty fighting, but in retrospect, look what love, caring, giving, sharing and getting along breeds.

        Love and Gods Blessings to All

        Gods Blessings to All

          1. BTOV,
            I’m sorry to hear one of your sons had cancer, but sounds like a great outcome. Is this a new development? I hope it is a changed life like it sounds, that would be fantastic.
            Now I have a manipulative person at work I have to deal with. I would agree that even those who are slightly disordered fight dirty. I don’t want to give this person oxygen, but close working quarters are going to be difficult. What a pain.

          2. BTOV,

            Thank you for sharing about your son. A wonderful story. As a nurse, I never felt I had what it took for oncology but I do still see it. And how hard the treatment is on everyone. I pay he continues to be cancer free.

            And to the rest of you guys. Who have also struggled to free themselves from toxic relationships whether it is a spouse or a child. Or a parent.

            As I said before we are sometimes attracted to what is familiar even if it’s unhealthy.

    3. You can’t win with a Narcissist and people who use sadistic aggression! I know a person that put acid on a girls face and painted her whole face black because he didn’t want any other man to look at her even though he himself gave off the impression he was ignoring her.

      You can’t win with someone who fights dirty !!!

      Because it’s about winning at all costs. But ppl with behavior problems make their targets better!

      They malign you in every way imaginable they force you to fix up every flaw that you have because they will viciously attack you on every level imaginable their very adept at finding flaws and using them to break their targets spirit. What a sad way to live and breathe that must be a real dark internal environment to live in!
      Their relentless way they come at you with.

      Constant fighting is a draino the best thing I find to do in situations is to MOVE away from the per-sin. People don’t change unless they face dire circumstances. They pretend to be sorry but every week it’s some horrific attack they make you feel like your functioning in your fight or flight your always in crisis.
      Ppl like this don’t change unless they have to face the consequences of their behavior . You can’t even reason with them there are some ppl who didn’t get a conscious when they were giving them out.

      It’s best to just move from ppl like this if you can don’t become someone’s snack bcuz they always come back for more! Moving is always the best if you try to appeal to their conscience it’s useless talking to a brick wall. Goal number one should be to get out of their range let someone else just like them fix them. That’s how they will learn give up control give up ppl and situations and move away for your sanity and peace of mind!

      I’m not interested in fighting with someone with a behavior problem because I know I won’t win! I rather walk away gather my losses and let someone just like them handle them bcuz they will meet someone just like themselves ! Ppl are attracted to those that vibrate at the same frequency !

  2. Kat,

    My son was raised in the spirit and he went back to the world. He as having a lot of pain and went to the Dr.. Test were ordered and the scans and Mri showed he had cancer of the gall bladder. The original pain he went in the hospital for turned out to be a severe strain, by doing the tests the Dr.’found the cancer.

    My son said he spent 2 full days in prayer and he says God healed him. The cancer of the gallbladder was a rare form of cancer and was contained inside the gall bladder which was removed. After the surgery and more tests the Dr,’s couldn’t find a trace of cancer and were amazed. This is a year ago now and there is no sign of any cancer.

    Prior to finding out about the cancer my son was as cold as could be to me. I hadn’t heard from him for 4 years and he shows up one day wanting to buy one of my vehicles, he said I should consider him a custiomer and that is all he was. He stayed for about a half hour and he was a cold as could be.

    Then last summer he was diagnosed with the cancer. My son ended up going to my Sisters funeral with my two grandchildren. I didn’t go to the funeral, I sent my eulogy, I couldn’t stand to even look at the CDN family. Well, my son ended up at the door with his testimony. He admitted he came to the service looking for me.

    Anyway we had a nice talk and he was full of gratitude to Jesus for his healing and he hugged me and told me he was sorry and loved me. He was back in church, in fact a sister Pentacostal church and was surprised at all the people I knew at his church. I invited my son to come to my church.

    My son came early to church and we sat in the prayer room to talk. Some of his thinking was misconstrued and rather argue back and forth about what he or I perceived, suggested we kneel at the alter, forgive one another and turn it all over to Jesus.

    We both prayed, forgave the past and agreed we were going to go forward as new children of God born in the Spirit. The rest of my sons family came to church and I invited his MIL to join in to.

    That night we had a missionary speak and my Granddaughter recieved the Holy Ghost. It was a powerful night. Afterwards we had a pizza party and my son and his family got to know my pastor and church body. I believe he is completely changed. Since then his whole life is built around work, family an church. Both my grandchildren in their teens are all envoled in the church and it is truly a blessing.

    Thank you for asking. The other two are another story.

    1. BTOV, That’s a beautiful testimony. So glad for the granddaughter too. A turnaround like that can only be from God. How fortunate for his family and his children to be involved in the church. I hope the cancer never returns and he can continue to serve God and his family.

      1. Kat and JC,

        Thank you for the kind words. I will pray for your loved ones, God knows who they are and God can heal anyone. We just have to trust in Him.

        My younger son is the manipulative one and is always trying to push my buttons and whats to control me by using Fear Obligation and Guilt, good examples of Dirty Fighting. Nope, I am not going to let it happen, my younger son will be at a family graduation with his girlfriend and new baby. It sould be interesting. I am giving my younger son a family Bible as a gift.

        JC, you are so right about be pulled into situations that we feel familiar with and so many times it’s and unconscious pull. We must always be on guard lest we fall prey. I am so sick of toxic people, my life is so simple and calm when I eliminate them from my life.

        It is difficult when you have to work with them as they can be very devious in trying to undermine you productiveness at work. Then they spread rumors and lies and create more chaos. I am sorry Kat, this has to be hard on you, especially, when you just want peace in your life.

        1. Joey,

          For you:

          Invictus

          By William Ernest Henley

          Out of the night that covers me,
          Black as the pit from pole to pole,
          I thank whatever gods may be
          For my unconquerable soul.

          In the fell clutch of circumstance
          I have not winced nor cried aloud.
          Under the bludgeonings of chance
          My head is bloody, but unbowed.

          Beyond this place of wrath and tears
          Looms but the Horror of the shade,
          And yet the menace of the years
          Finds and shall find me unafraid.

          It matters not how strait the gate,
          How charged with punishments the scroll,
          I am the master of my fate,
          I am the captain of my soul.

          I hope you are well,
          Hugs

  3. I need some advice

    I feel really bad, for my behaviour.

    I took the plunge and went online dating. I met a lady.
    We were getting on very,very well.

    The problem.

    On her profile she said she had 4 children.
    For me this was not a problem.
    We were talking on the phone, and then she tells me she actually has 6 children.

    I have been as romantic to this lady as I can be. BUT something was Bugging me,and Bugging me,and bugging me.

    We were going to go out on a first date. I really did like this lady, I really did like this lady.

    Something was Bugging me.

    I have been as romantic as I can be, even though something has been bugging me.
    I have ended our relationship.
    I have devastated her.
    I feel so bad,
    I should have ended it sooner.

    This is why I ended it.

    On her profile she STATED, SHE HAS 4 CHILDREN BUT! SHE ACTUALLY HAS 6
    IT IS NOT THE CHILDREN OR THAT SHE HAS CHILDREN.
    She did tell me this

    “IT IS THE OMISSION”
    4 kids Suddenly turn into 6 kids, this is what was bugging me.
    I feel she lied to me
    This is why I ended it.
    I feel it was deceitful.
    I like kids. But declare how many you have from the start.
    If she had, I would not be asking this question.
    WAS I RIGHT

    PLEASE BE AS TRUTHFUL TO ME AS POSSIBLE

    1. Are two of them grown and out of the house? So many men want women with zero or few kids. Perhaps she did a stupid thing and was advised to fib on the number of kids in order to get more replies/interest. Maybe this lie by omission was out of character for her and she feels badly about it and did it only out of desperation to increase her chances of finding someone to date.

      Perhaps the two she didn’t initially count are adults and she doesn’t want potential suitors to be turned off by the thought of a half-dozen children running around at home, so she modified it to be only the kids still at home.

      It all depends. What is her explanation and reasoning? What is her demeanor when she talks about this lie of hers? Did she tell you right away or did you find it out from your investigating her (checking out her social media, etc) and have to confront her?

      I loathe how much deceit is involved in anything these days, not just dating, but it’s good to protect one’s heart and attaching yourself to someone is no small matter so you may have dodged a bullet here (or she may have done a dumb, out-of-character, desperate lie by omission).

    2. I agree with anonymous about increasing her chances of finding someone. Yes it is a lie, but you don’t know if lying is something she does consistently. She knew she would have to come clean at some point, and she must not have thought it would be an issue once she found someone interested, but that does damage trust and I can understand that, especially coming from your background where you don’t want to be around anyone deceptive. My son is dating a woman who lied and told him she was pregnant, but he had an operation to prevent that during his first marriage. He told her that and she confessed that she did that to “test” him, and that she really isn’t pregnant. To me that is a game changer, but he is not going to listen to me, he is still dating her. I think you need more information myself, you haven’t been out on a date with her and have not gotten to know her. Of course you are right that lying is deceptive. Be careful, my son has had online dates where he let them move into his house and then they wanted to take over the house and kick him out! Of course he is not using your discernment Joey, he is a target for these types. There may be some who disagree with me but that’s my two cents and you said be honest.

    3. Joey,

      I read Kat and Anonymous answers to you and they brought up valid points.

      I have a few questions if you don’t mind. How old is this woman and are all the children by the same man or different men and was she married to all the fathers and how old are the children?

    4. Joey,

      You caught her in a lie at the outset. With that you lost trust in her. A foundation has to be built on honesty. She showed lack of good character by lying. It appears shady. What else are lies? How will you know? Now, whatever she says, you have to wonder if it’s truth or a lie.

      As Dr. Simon has taught us, character matters.

      I think you did the right thing by breaking up. You demand good character, honesty, truthfulness. It’s a basic foundation to a good relationship.

      You Were Right, in my opinion.

      1. Joey,

        You have to be careful meeting people online. And it seems though you caught her in a lie. Whether 2 or more even of these kids are out of the house. What else is she lying about? Not a good one, if you ask me.

    5. joey,

      There are many ifs and buts that one can come up to explain her, but you felt that she lied. Why should a grown women lie?
      At the same time, people really are not perfect. But, only you are best person to judge her overall. None of us on online forum can vouch for her “omission”.

      My take will be, you are right either way.
      You ended it, because you felt she wasn’t truthful, and you wonder what else is lurking out there. Fair enough.
      You could easily have continued with her, with your assessment that only problem that stood out was “omission”. Fair enough.

      But, once you decided to end, you should not feel guilty and try to make up with her to avoid feeling guilt.

  4. Should read.

    On her profile she STATED, SHE HAS 4 CHILDREN BUT! SHE ACTUALLY HAS 6
    IT IS NOT THE CHILDREN OR THAT SHE HAS CHILDREN.
    She did come clean and tell me she has 6 children

    1. Joey
      Plus, her lie seems desperate. She knows having several children will turn away men, so she subtracted two, somehow thinking that her chances of dating a man would increase.
      It’s not only the lie that’s the problem, but they she wants to hide who she really is, what her life really is.
      You want a healthy woman, Joey. One who loves herself

  5. I’m glad both gaslighting and bad counseling is talked about in this post. I don’t know how to find a good counselor and have had so many negative, damaging, harmful experiences with bad advice from bad counselors, I have no faith in my ability to find a good one.

    I find so much gaslighting in the world, too. People prey on me and I am harmed and yet they play innocent, lie through their teeth in claims of innocence, and I feel as though I must be crazy/losing my mind. It’s a horrible feeling.

    Too many predators and abusers running around. I seem to draw them all in and be a perpetual target.

    Any advice on how to fight the crazy feeling when being gaslighted? Or how to find a good counselor and not be further harmed? I think most people in the mental health/counseling fields are predatory/narcs/abusers. That has been my most recent experiences, one after another. So damaging! So harmful! And I read about suicidal people being worse for wear once they go to a hospital, seeking help for their suicidality. Makes me distrust the system all the more.

    1. Anonymous, I find myself in the same place, being a target. A reader suggested I read “whos pulling your strings” about manipulative people and the tactics they use and the triggers in ourselves that they can latch onto. So far its been an eye opener for me-especially about my triggers. I am planning on attending a Codependent 12 step meeting in a couple weeks and attending throughout the 12 steps to work on myself. I don’t know about counselors, I can’t really afford that, the one I went to I only went for a short time because of the cost. I think finding good reading material and finding a support group should be helpful.

  6. Kat and Anonymous,

    It is difficult to find a good counselor who is really qualified to help someone. I found to many that just sit and listen without given any beneficial input. I think in many instances a Life Coach may be of more help. I went to the Coda group which wasn’t for me but you may find it of help.

    Many times churches have counselors on staff to help, that may be a service that is exclusive to their members.

    I think in being a magnet that is true, however, I believe years ago society was more caring and the disregard for taking advantage and using others was frowned upon. Today it seems the norm to use people, especially those who are giving and kind. We used to be a majority and now we are a minority that is why we are preyed upon.

    The book “Who is Pulling Your Strings” was an eye opener and would suggest all read it.
    The books on Bounderies JC recommended are very good too, especially, if you are of faith.

    All those flags we learned about and now see are absolute indicators we should never ignore. Keep on reading, keep on posting, find some good support groups, there are free ones everywhere. Even the Womens Resource Centers for abuse victims are good as you listen to individual stories and you learn another flag. As you sit back and listen and think in your mind what you would do in an individual case is many times the same answer you need for yourself.

  7. BTOV,
    I have never heard of a Life Coach, sound interesting. The one CODA meeting I have in mind is held at a church and they use a Christian based codependent book so I don’t have to run all the information thru my “God” filter to see if it is in keeping with Gods teachings. The leader there was very good and they go thru the 12 steps week by week. But I am taking a class on the same night and it runs for two weeks more, then I will go back and hopefully the same leader will be there. I went to a different CODA meeting that was not at a church and did not use a book and just seemed like it didn’t have a focus, it just wasn’t for me. BTOV thanks for suggesting that book “whos pulling your strings” I also plan to read the other one you recommended, Disease to Please. She is very straightforward and understandable and practical and I like that. I agree that more and more we must be able to discern and reject manipulation, with the self-serving teaching that the media seems to be espousing.

  8. BTOV, Kat, Anonoymous, JC, Joey, and all

    I just have to say it looks to me like we are enlightened and are finding our ways out of the CD fog that we’d been in so long, and are continuing to fight our way through it at every encounter with the CD. Looks like we are all healing, continuing to learn and experience living in a world full of CDs, and more importantly, helping others get through it all.

  9. Has anyone experienced their abuser telling them how they just want to fight and that they were argumentative?

    I don’t know how many times I heard the “you just want to fight” line told to me. I came to believe I was this awful person and since then I really struggle with standing up for myself, saying or thinking anything contrary, and having my own opinion.

    There were way more things that were done to me, but I thought maybe the “you just want to fight” line is a common one.

    Women, especially Christian women, get trained and socialized to obey, to submit, to oblige people, to accommodate, and to make nice. Do others have these backgrounds? It’s like we get socialized and conditioned out of any will to fight, and then when abusers and predators come along, they stomp out whatever is left in us.

    Conflict should be a healthy thing. Fighting seems to be a one-way affair of domination, most often. It’s usually never a fair fight, or an evenly-handled conflict. But man is there a lot of conditioning, domination, oppression, and socialization for women to shake off. Or, at least, most Christian women, I should say.

  10. I cannot count how many times someone has told me that a person who has been outwardly bullying and these other traits of a CD are because he/she is “putting someone down to make themselves feel better.” We have been told this particular saying over and over again year after year. Now we realize it’s not so! These people are out to intentionally to do harm, because they want position, they want what they want and do not care who they stop on. They have no empathy, no common decency. It’s hard to convince these people that no, they are not injured and harmed, but they are out to do harm because they enjoy it. They want something and will do you wrong do get it.
    The last conversation I had on this order the response I got was, “well, he does want to make himself feel better because he’s short and unattractive.” So we’ve all heard of “small man syndrome.”
    I’m finding it exhausting dealing with all the misinformation we’d been fed for far too long.

    1. Lucy,

      I’m with you. Sometimes it is true that badly damaged people go off the deep end and rage and lash out and are hurtful for a time. But the people who aren’t severely damaged, struggling in all aspects of life, just a wreck of a human being (because of a predator, or predators) are doing it out of overconfidence, overinflated egos. Their callousness, their egotism, their predatory and malicious stance is reflective of their evil selves. They enjoy making mincemeat out of others. It’s sport for them. It’s entertainment. It’s fun. The thrill of aggression. The bloodlust of predators. The sadism of abusers.

      I loathe the “hurt people hurt people” bullcrap line. It’s only true in rare circumstances, when people have been wrecked so badly, and then it’s almost always seen in almost all their encounters with others. They struggle with nearly everything. And if confronted, they feel awful, are apologetic, remorseful, and you can tell, they hate that they did such and are eager to make it up to you, assuming they are in a better state.

      And besides, who cares why a person does it? If the person isn’t an abuser, then upon confronting them, they’ll usually be explanatory and apologetic, not defensive and manipulative and counter-attacking you for daring to say anything.

    2. Lucy,

      I agree, it’s exhausting to hear the same wrong paradigms everywhere.
      My son was given a book to read at school “there’s a boy in the girls bathroom” and it’s just teaching the kids the same story, a bully is ALWAYS just a poor guy who just needs to be heard and be treated well despite every act of wrongdoing and in the end, if you put enough effort, he’ll be the best caring person in the world ‍♀️ I just can’t believe how misinformed everyone is, even the ones who are educating children to go out to the world and then find these people and not recognize them for what they are.

      1. Ce,

        I also wonder if it’s not a deliberate choice for people to embrace wrong thinking. At school, bullies are coddled. Why? Because most bullies are bred from bully parents. And teachers don’t care to stick their necks out. Admin has enough bullies in it, and the actually good, decent teachers get jerked around, by both admin, fellow predatory/bully teachers, and bully parents who created their little monster knock-offs.

        Look at what Disney puts out. Beauty and the Beast. Belle just needs to be extra kind to turn Beast into a loving husband/prince. It trains little girls to think their abuser bfs/husbands aren’t really monsters, but rather princes needing love to be freed of their Beast exterior.

        Then there’s the ‘love them to Jesus’ teachings. As though criminals, predators, abusers of all kinds just need to be extended kindness and they’ll whip into shape, find the LORD and finally be given the chance and opportunity to be their non-predatory selves. Nope. Doesn’t work that way.

        About the ‘boy in the girls bathroom’ BOOK. Is this trans ideology being assigned reading in the elementary schools now? Trans rights activists are misogynists and bullies and sexual predators, by and large. They claim they just want to pee in peace, but what about women and girls? Many trans-identified men are actual perverts who find it sexually arousing to claim to be a woman and imagine themselves to be a woman, with female genitals, yet won’t lose their penises, because they know they are men, they just like forcing others to participate in their fetish. And women’s rights get erased. Women’s safety is tossed into the gutter and women concerned with predatory men are then called bigots, and a host of other horrible slurs, complete with threats of throat-punching, and more violence (men’s violence against women, repackaged with some dudes in dresses claiming to be victims of bigoted women, thus supposedly necessitating said trans dudes to punch them, stalk them, harass them, threaten them, and more).

        Wicked people all over the world. And who gets harmed in life? The nice, decent, moral, upright people who are no match for the predators of society.

        1. Hi Anonymous,

          I agree about being mindful of what gets taught at school and movies.

          About the book, nothing to do with trans ideology, just another “harmless “ book about “human nature”… that we know all too well causes more harm than good

          1. Hi Ce,

            Oh, okay. And yes, said ‘harmless’ books about ‘human nature’ aren’t exactly that, especially if they teach that bullies are just poor little hurt children with hurt inner butterflies. Maybe a few are, but not the great majority.

            And had I thought about it, a true trans ideology book wouldn’t have said it’s a boy in a girls’ bathroom but would have referred to the boy as a girl.

      2. I think this is what one of my family members thinks, she is trying to figure out how this mutual acquaintance got like that, that it is from hurtful things in her life, and it probably is. I told her if you felt sorry for that person and tried to help her she would eat you for lunch.

          1. ALL,

            Question? Instead of being “Lunch” how do you/we decide to refuse to be “lunch?”

            How do we/you intend to be the leading change that refuses????

            Do ALL of you realize we have the “Power” not the CD, you/we are the one that are building “Character” truly have all the power over to make the change…….

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