A few months ago I did some interviews on web-based broadcast network program. The producer and program director subsequently asked me to consider a program of my own, to which I agreed. This coming Sunday evening, March 9 at 7 pm ET, will see the debut of “Character Matters” on UCY.TV. The program’s guiding principle will be the inextricable interdependence of freedom and character and will focus on aspects of our culture that foster character disturbance and place our precious freedoms at risk. People will be able to call into the program and discuss topics with me and I may also have a guest from time to time. To start, the program is scheduled for one hour, but there are plans to eventually extend that to as much as 3 hours.
I’ll have more information posted before Friday’s regular article hits. Please accept my invitation to join the discussion on one of the most important issues of our time. UCY.TV is just one of several new alternative information dissemination vehicles out there and there is a variety of content on the site. Click on the banner ad above to link to the program’s page on the UCY.TV site.
Dr Simon, when you have time, would you make an article about the spectrum of awareness? I recall we talked about this when I once theorized whether some narcissist could actually have poor social skills and self-awareness.
Thanks for the reminder!
I clarify: I mean self-awareness as well awareness of other things(like things going on with other people).
Would you also write about how a person develops to be aware or unaware(like so many so-called neurotics)?
I ask all this, because lack of awareness has hampered a great deal in my life. When young, I clung a lot to what Gestalt psychology calls the phony layer, without even being at all aware of the concept of being inauthentic. Again, the problem: How do you become aware if you’re not aware you’re not aware?
LOVE your question J!! My opinion is this……..when a narcissist goes through life, their focuse is so self focused their awareness and concerns are on themselves and there wants and desires so they don’t even care to be aware as long as they are getting what they want. But life sometimes interfears with even their plans because in reality they are not the all powerful gods they fancy themselves to be. so when their methods no longer bring them what they want, they are faced with two choices, 1) to really take a cold hard look at themselves and evaluate the situation, which should point them in the direction of seeing that their methods are faulty or 2) learn to manipulate others better. maybe this is what separates the boys from the men because boys only care and look out foe themselves and men get their needs met while also taking others into consideration.
SO…………….I think that life it’s self CAN be a teacher of awareness. I have had many people and experiences in my life that have taught me a great deal.
I’m serious though…….” How do you become aware if you’re not aware you’re not aware?” is a great question and one I’ve thought about myself. If the way you are meets the examples and expectations of the people you were raised with and is even encouraged by them……it is the status quo you were molded in. That is so sad to me because if that continues through your teens, wouldn’t your whole way of being in this world and with people in general be cemented in place? If you were taught by example and encouragement to only look out for #1 and that others are messed up and that you need to ignore their needs and WIN WIN WIN, and make Mommy proud…..well you can see that would lead to a Spathtard!
BUT……….again, everyone has choices they make in life and life presents you with plenty of choices and opportunities to see the error of your ways. It’s up to you to ACCEPT that you may not be the perfect god that you have been allowed and encouraged to be in your family of origin.
I know my examples might not be what you are referring to directly but in my opinion the same principles apply……….life has a way of drawing these things to your attention IF and only IF you are willing to accept the lessons and grow.
It sounds like you have grown past your past and that your inquisitive mind has asked the right questions and continues to. Growth stops when anyone thinks they KNOW anything. Question EVERYthing, as a good friend of mine says, especially yourself!
I think this comment of yours best answers the question Puddle….
//…..BUT……….again, everyone has choices they make in life and life presents you with plenty of choices and opportunities to see the error of your ways. It’s up to you to ACCEPT that you may not be the perfect god that you have been allowed and encouraged to be in your family of origin.
I know my examples might not be what you are referring to directly but in my opinion the same principles apply……….life has a way of drawing these things to your attention IF and only IF you are willing to accept the lessons and grow…..//
Why do drug and drink abusers finally stop the cycle of abuse? Why do people with anger management issues, or those who finally decide to educate themselves on whatever the subject matter (perhaps from educationally subnormal backgrounds or environments)…..there are lots of examples….finally make those life changing choices? The point I am trying to make is that most people are capable of gauging their place and stake in society by simply looking around and outside of themselves….and then acting. They know for the most part whether their requests, or wants, or choices, are fair or reasonable…..or not!?
The manipulator/CA knows, sees the red lights….but simply ignores. Their personal wishes, whether just, fair, reasonable or not…..are the most important thing. My anecdotal experience leads to that as being the only conclusion.
Danny, way more well worded than I could have said.
HERE is something I see that comes into play in my life……..My innate personality has a lot of stubbornness/ determination to it. I was the first child, and my mother was bound and determined to mould me into a perfect little representation of what she thought I should be and what would reflect best on her. I fought tooth and nail for my individuality. I’m not saying that all of what she wanted me to be was bad but the part that takes away a persons individuality is a form of abuse in my opinion. You can live outside the box and at the same time have decent moral codes, manners, etc.
AND, I was unprotected in my family. Scapegoated, not championed or stood up for by anyone and between my sociobro and me it was I that towed the line as far as responsibility. He was bad from the start and not much was expected of him, the bar was always set very low. SO complicated.
I know my parents (and by parents I mean my mother because my father was basically so uninvolved) enabled him for a very very long time. They got him out of all kinds of trouble and more than likely I don’t even know about most of it. Then when he reached the age of 18, the first check he forged of my fathers was the tipping point. He had forged many checks before that including some of mine but this time the bank stepped in and prosecuted, it was out of my parents hands.
By that stage of the game things had devolved so severely with him that the eventual outcome was pretty much set in stone. The whole picture makes me so VERY sad……such a waste. He has bounced off the bottom his whole life but it all started at such a young age I think the bottom is what feels natural to him.
As far as Spathtard is concerned, I see the same enabling dynamic, same but different, in his life with his mother. His father had already died by the time I met him so it’s hard to say what kind of a roll he played but his Mommy is most definitely enabling him on many levels and it is disgusting. His father was an extremely successful man and I think, based on what I’ve picked up on, was more than likely not all that impressed with Spathtards “life choices”. But Mommy was always there to prop him up, poor little Spathtard “he can’t live by himself……it destroys him”. Consequently, as a 48 year old manboy he lives like an adolescent in his mother’s basement.
It’s a variable how much own will molds a person and how much role other factors play. I haven’t known this Spath-Moron, but I dare to speculate that if he had taken to heart that his father’s dissatisfaction was justified and well-founded, then he wouldn’t have grown up to become such a predatory manboy-vampire-leech. Who knows?
One, who’s been abused, may develop generalized mistrust of other people. Another one with the same or similar background may use it all as a justification to reap violence on others as well as an excuse why they don’t see the point in changing.
One, who’s experienced tons of bullying and social rejection, may go on still wondering why they don’t seem to attract friends. Another one may be more likely to get curious despite all the emotional pain, get motivated to learn where they made mistakes. Motivating oneself is one of the domains of emotional intelligence Daniel Goleman talks about in Emotional Intelligence.
And by this, I refer back to these questions: How do you become aware? How do you develop the inquisitive, curious mind? Those have been answered, but I feel more viewpoints on those would be largely helpful for us neurotics.
Then what you appear to be asking is why whatever the proportion of those manipulators or CA’s will ignore the warnings that most others will adhere to or heed. I personally still think they know…..but there are probably a whole bunch of different factors, dependant on the individual, that will have a bearing on their CHOICE to ignore (those red flags). It is still a wilful choice imv…..and from my experience……that is justified in any number of ways that are designed to ultimately shift the blame or accusing finger in their direction.
Danny, It all comes down to discomfort (in my opinion). As an adult, the two biggest motivators are desire and discomfort. That is what I think it can be distilled down to. the thing that makes it hard to understand is our objective perspective of someone else’s subjective reality. What makes one person exceedingly uncomfortable in life might not even register in another person’s reality. And they there is the payoff/ reward dynamic. What is “worth it” to one person seems like a waste of time to another.
J, you never know!! Spathmorontardx’s father may have been a Spath himself! From what I was told (by Spathtard, so who knows if it’s true….could very well be a pity ploy) his father was very critical and SUPPOSEDLY (according to Spathtard) he was abused by his father sexually. I’m sure none of this was ever brought up until Spathtard’s father passed away. I have read before that Spath’s love to scapegoat someone who is no longer there to answer to the accusations.
Danny, that’s an interesting detail to understand, that “there are probably a whole bunch of different factors, dependant on the individual, that will have a bearing on their CHOICE to ignore (those red flags)”.
Indeed, an individual may look back on their life, not to reflect on avoiding the same mistakes, but to see why what they currently do actually makes sense.
Let’s say someone actually has been belittled, ridiculed, humiliated, put down a lot and it can have a bearing on why they think it’s justifiable to be aggressive. I don’t mean to excuse it when someone harms or tries to harm you. It’s that our reasons seem to have a grain of truth to them. Our behavior has grounds for justification.
Fascinating stuff J! And really quite revealing too. I think we could be getting onto something here….and I agree with your perspective. For far longer than I am comfortable remembering, I have regularly challenged my wife for what is a habit of attempting to explain away the most horrible of behaviours with her oft repeated phrase “…..yes but do you know why I did?”. It is as though she can simply talk away the gravity of all types of dreadful behaviours….in such a way as though the words will magically render her actions entirely reasonable and understandable (under the circumstances). The point is she knows two things (a) what she has done and (b) that ‘it’ was totally unacceptable, wrong even. And yet in choosing to ignore that red flag, and go through with the bad behaviour, the invalidation process will begin in earnest.
So I guess we arrive back at the why, why, why question of……..why some wilfully choose to ignore those red flags, yet most of us, for the most part, will not? They don’t want to take notice….I think we can all agree. But why don’t they? Because, I think, they believe nothing else matters apart from satisfying themselves, their desires, wants, needs, which come some distance ahead of everyone else. Yes, but why? Though no reason or reasons can make their actions in any way acceptable….there must be myriad of possible explanations.
Doesn’t being self-aware require viewing oneself from a more objective, detached viewpoint? I’m speculating and generalizing that disturbed characters have that certain ability for objective detachment even though they insist on their way, however harmful it is.
Danny, is there the possibility (in your mind) that someone could do something that was bad behavior, a thing that could be viewed and “wrong” and really BE innocent in a way? I have done all kinds of things in this relationship and it do see it as a why why why did Puddle do that issue because I was being manipulated and toyed with. There is a difference between reactive anger and aggressive anger for instance. the things I did in our relationship were only justifiable if you saw and understood the whole picture. Of course at the time, I didn’t even understand the whole picture so not only did spathtard berate and judge me but I felt guilty. Does that make sense? Like I would never harm anyone…….but if someone broke into my home and i felt threatened, I would probably shoot to kill. Does that make me a murderer?
Yes Puddle, I agree entirely with your point. Context is king – context is always king! I have 4 grown children and am very well versed with the scenario that one can be hurting inside and yet [momentarily?] cause pain to others in communicating their pain elsewhere, their fear/s, their confusion, their angst, their worries, their concerns etc etc. But once that pain has been identified and addressed, the bad behaviour/s will usually very quickly subside and the real beautiful personality will eventually shine through. However the CD is very different, the [bad] behaviours are different, the continuum is different, the spectrum of [bad] behaviours are far more insidious and, perhaps most tellingly, it just never goes away no matter what is done on the part of the recipient of such [bad] behaviours that are intended to help the CD. Summing up generally……the two types of pain we are discussing are very different imv. They are separated by one being either the victim……or being the aggressor.
Further to my previous point Puddle…..I would also add that the “….do you know why I did it” scenario can be taken in two very different ways.
Firstly the more genuine is……”I’m very sorry for what happened and regret what happened, however it is important for me to explain the context of why I did it”. This can be helpful for all parties in learning lessons from any given occurrence.
However I have more routinely met with the other type, which is……”I’m not sorry for what happened, it wasn’t my fault, you’re to blame and I’m going to explain why you made me do it”. Basically, if the same set of circumstances were to occur, the aggressor is in fact making it quite clear they would think nothing of doing exactly the same thing…..or perhaps even worse. This is clearly pernicious and has no other purpose than to cause harm and abuse.
Danny, that is a relief for me to hear worded in the way you worded it. I know that on one hand, I “”should”” be on top of my own behavior and words and responses no matter what the contributing circumstances are. but then again, if you are actually being Played and manipulated covertly, you are swimming against the current. you are trying to get your head above the water but the CA has ahold of one of your feet and there is no taking a breath because they keep you and the whole situation under water. Just when you think you will break the surface and be able to take a long needed breath, they yank you back down. Sometimes they might even let you have a breath…..maybe even two and that creates a false sense of hope for a while, then down you go again.
J…..
//Doesn’t being self-aware require viewing oneself from a more objective, detached viewpoint? I’m speculating and generalizing that disturbed characters have that certain ability for objective detachment even though they insist on their way, however harmful it is.//
I agree100% with this. The core of the argument for me lies in understanding WHY there is that rapacious and unrestrained desire for power and outright control.
Further to my previous point Puddle…..I would also add that the “….do you know why I did it” scenario can be taken in two very different ways.
Firstly the more genuine is……”I’m very sorry for what happened and regret what happened, however it is important for me to explain the context of why I did it”. This can be helpful for all parties in learning lessons from any given occurrence.
However I have more routinely met with the other type, which is……”I’m not sorry for what happened, it wasn’t my fault, you’re to blame and I’m going to explain why you made me do it”. Basically, if the same set of circumstances were to occur, the aggressor is in fact making it quite clear they would think nothing of doing exactly the same thing…..or perhaps even worse. This is clearly pernicious and has no other purpose than to cause harm and abuse.
And another scenario…..if it’s you who has done or said something hurtful…….they don’t have a vested interest in truly understanding the context of why you did or said it because it usually/ always has something to do with them and they certainly don’t want to hear about THAT!
Yes, we are, I think, in full agreement. And you raise another interesting point. What separates the CA from more normalised modes of behaviour is their utter and stubborn refusal to ever question themselves. Of course, I am totally responsible for my poor behaviour. But guess what, I’m also totally responsible for their poor behaviour too. And even if they will ask the WHY (are you upset) question, they are not really interested in the answer because it will be used as a platform for them to hold you in even more contempt when they reply sarcastically “oh yes, it’s always MY fault isn’t it?!”.
Danny…….Well put AGAIN!!
“And even if they will ask the WHY (are you upset) question, they are not really interested in the answer because it will be used as a platform for them to hold you in even more contempt when they reply sarcastically “oh yes, it’s always MY fault isn’t it?!”.”
Or just insert empty meaningless “i’m sorry’s, promises, excuses, blah blah blah’s” here.
Again…..no vested interest. I was as disposable and replaceable to him as the cigarette buts he carelessly flicked out the car window apparently so why would he really want to know ANYTHING about me other than to manipulate me into fulfilling his desires?
And he is proud as a peacock I’m sure……..HOW?? How could any adult man think these traits and tactics are something to be proud of? they are only admired or tolerated by the extreme lowlifes in this world which is why they wear a mask! They have to or they would be shunned!
Unfortunately not everyone quite manages an inquisitive way of looking at things. It’s still true that one is never to assume to know everything.
another saying……change occurs when the pain of remaining the same is greater than the pain of changing. Again…..the school of life is the best teacher of most lessons for an adult.
True. I’ve heard it called bottoming out.
Sometimes one can look back and see where one went wrong. One can still get stuck in overanalysis or end up none the wiser. This is how I ended up reading psychology.
if you look back and see where you went “wrong” and learned from it then it’s not really wrong anymore! That’s how I see it anyhow! And, it’s just not realistic to think that everyone learns at the same rate or from the same number of “mistakes” or attempts to do better in life. I don’t know why some people have an easier time than others in many different areas. Things just seem so oddly unfair in life. It perplexes me. How horrible some countries are to live in, the utter devastation and violence.
And then your topic…….some people seem to just “get it” and sail through life, maybe not perfect, but seemingly unencumbered by the things that bring so many people to such a darker existence.
The difference between my sociopathic brother and me is striking J. I’m by no means a perfect person with no room for healing and growth but my brother is and always has been a fairly lost cause. WHY?? Why did my path go the way it did and his went the sociopathic way it did? He’s had the same opportunities I’ve had but he has dug himself into a hole so deep I don’t see him ever getting out, not entirely anyhow. I certainly dug my own kind of hole in a different way but something kept me from falling to the bottom and now with alcohol out of my life, I can put down the shovel.
I’m not sure to what extent he is still digging, not anything like he used to which is good but there has been so much damage done in so many ways,,,,,,I honestly can’t imagine how he could undo it, his brain is really fried. So then where does a person go? how do you turn around a brain that is wrecked?
This interests me too. Apparently socio/psychopaths account for approx 4 or 5% of society….I think was the figure last time I read on the subject? And then there is the rest of us. Two distinct groups who, according to what the experts will tell us, think totally unlike each other. There can be, and is, no equivalence.
Danny:
“The core of the argument for me lies in understanding WHY there is that rapacious and unrestrained desire for power and outright control.”
Well, individual reasons can vary. No one wants to feel like they have no control over anything. No one wants to feel powerless or disempowered.
Then again, craving power, control and domination obviously doesn’t sound good.
Again, if we are to “understand” the quest for domination, I’d like to know what we aim to gain with it.
Whatever we want? That is a kind of freedom, especially if/when one finds yielding uncomfortable.
It is a sort of freedom but nothing in life is free. Domination at another’s expense has it’s cost too. I wouldn’t want to be Spathtardx, a 48 year old alcoholic manboy living the life of a teenager in Mommys basement who has to lie and manipulate people to have any “””friends””” at all? His whole entire life is a train wreck and he was the engineer. If it weren’t for the small detail that he manipulated, mentally and emotionally abused, raped, deceived and scapegoated me, I could have a tremendous amour of compassion for him……but i have none.
I meant what we aim to gain by aiming to understand.
Ahh…I see! Knowledge is power….to hopefully address the [power] imbalance somewhat….one would hope. Which leads to another question…..is it ever possible to seize power from someone determined to win at all/any costs? 🙂
We could be tempted to lean back on old misconceptions that at best might be somewhat true for some people. For instance, Patricia Evans theorizes in Controlling People how controllers feel disconnected from themselves, their thinking, feelings, sensate and/or intuitive factulties, and out of control of their lives and thus are compelled to control others to keep up some pretend world. I’ve brought up Evans here before. In Verbally Abusive Relationship, the book otherwise insightful, she theorizes that these controllers/abusers would suffer from a dissociative disorder. (As a side note, aren’t there many neurotic people, who have some dissociative problems and who still aren’t control freaks?)
J, I think a severely disordered person, aka psychopath, is all about pretend…..empty shell, all an act, empty empty empty…….words and no music, no soul just show time.
The stage lights are on but no one’s home…..no one truly human anyhow. They are all make-believe, mellow drama, like a bad soap opera. I think they realize they are on the fringe and in a certain sense envy other’s ability to be real and then harshly judge us for our imperfections. SEE! You aren’t perfect!! They supposedly can not not not tolerate being alone…..no wonder.
There are so many things I have floating around in the back of my head and psyche about this. Things I seem to be on the brink of understanding, odd elusive realizations.
I wish we could hang out together and just TALK about these things!
That’s a wholly different thing than dissociation.
http://www.emoclear.com/personalityclusters.htm#608821124
Dissociation is “out of touch with our biological messages, intuition, and felt sense of self” and “[t]hinking in terms of “one” “, that is, thinking faculty. That’s one interesting thing about Evans’ Controlling People, showing how we can disconnect from ourselves, dissociate, start distrusting our perception, start believing another person’s perception, pretend world is more real than ours. Evans just tries too hard to understand controlling people.
In contrast, I think fighters and psychopaths we are more likely to encounter do have that ability to view things with objective detachment. They are connected to themselves(unless there’s trauma that causes them to dissociate) thinking-, feeling-, intuition- and sensation-wise. They know it’s “mellow drama” and they prefer their pleasures, because nothing’s got meaning for them.
Damn, I must subconsciously crave to be an expert, because I spout these things even though I’m no expert by a long shot.
Yes, these postulated causative “dynamics” have been theorized by many. And while there is SOMETIMES, SOME degree of validity to them, MOST OF THE TIME, it’s pure bunk. You might want to see my answer to the commentator who mused about the fundamental purpose or utility of dominance-seeking for more on this.
“You might want to see my answer to the commentator who mused about the fundamental purpose or utility of dominance-seeking for more on this.”
Where is this exchange?
Again, with so many points racing on my mind:
I refer back to my statement that our reasons have a grain of truth to them, otherwise we wouldn’t believe in them. That’s knowledge best to understand why we have some behaviors and how we could improve.
Then again, perhaps we could do understanding factors that enable power-freakery.
One chapter in Bully In Sight By Tim Field lists various factors that perpetuate bullying, relating to organizations, work contracts, different social issues. Now, perhaps we could think about different enablers of character disturbance at large.
“funny”, they have no control over themselves, their desires, their pathetic lives, but they want to be the puppet master in other’s lives. Go figure. Just pathetic. And I WAS accused of being controlling! Why? because I wanted him to live like an adult in my home and treat me with respect? Because I asked for what I wanted? Because I thought a boyfriend should act like a boyfriend? He said to me “I think you only feel in control when things are out of control”. I remember thinking, WHO are we talking about? IMO, it was either another attempt at manipulation or a total projection.
Couldn’t it be both at once?
I think it was manipulation and Im probably not using the word “projection” properly J. I don’t mean any king of unconscious projection, I mean projecting what they are guilty of onto the victim, accusing the victim of what they are doing. It’s another way of causing mental confusion and taking the focus off of them and onto the victim. a defensive maneuver. And it worked because it redirected my mind off of him and back onto myself. How might I be controlling? is he right? should I be more easy going, am I asking too much? is this an appropriate thing to expect? on and on and on and on and i didn’t know the answers to a lot of the questions I asked myself. I still don’t know where to draw the line in SO many areas when it comes to relationships with people. It’s so confusing that it makes me want to cry. It just makes me feel so bewildered. I question myself ALL THE TIME in a seemingly endless mental loop.
I don’t think control freaks often feel out of control, lack in personal power or have any dissociative problems. That’s Patricia Evans’ view in her books(most detailed in Controlling People). Sure, I recall someone having said here that a person could be more neurotic than character-disordered and still be covert-aggressive(or perhaps a control freak). What should be good to debunk that power freakery would be a compulsion born out of disconnection with self is this:
Aren’t there neurotics with dissociative problems, who aren’t control freaks?
by out of control i mean that they DON’T control themselves, not that they can’t.
They seemingly don’t think that they have to.
I think Spathtardx thought he had the moral high ground (in his own mind) and I think he looked down on me for my lifestyle when I met him, giving him a right (in his own mind) to treat me any way he wanted. Oddly…..he told me, his favorite movie was SEVEN. Maybe he saw some of my behaviors as something that needed to be punished.
When we say “out of control”, doesn’t that usually imply some sort of emotional problems?
That would apply to borderline personality disorder, but when we talk about dominance-oriented aggressors, the unbridled ones aka antisocials are walking impulses, just doing what momentary impulses say, not caring to put on the brakes.
I guess this is why acting out and acting up can be mixed up?
J, I don’t know how to say what I feel……something in the back of my awareness about this. Out of control……..maybe like the way they are…..they are different…..the worst of the worst of them will never change, period. too different, too damaged and in a sense, they will NEVER fit in with others, the gap is too wide to bridge. does that make sense?
Some people never want to change no matter how much objective information would show otherwise. It’s all just getting reinforcement for what they do.
Couldn’t a well-meaning person also find their soul getting eaten alive by power?
I don’t know J. I suppose. But I think someone would have to have a desire for power at some level to get consumed by it. But why couldn’t power be like any other addiction?
Do some get power foisted upon them despite them not wanting it, at least to such degree they’re given? Isn’t that kind of unwanted obligation extremely unpleasant and stressful? Add to that the thought “I didn’t want a part of this” and you have a recipe for bitterness.
I’m going to weigh in now on this issue, because I have a lot to say about the power and dominance-seeking issue in both Character Disturbance and In Sheep’s Clothing. Power does not corrupt. If it did, the almost unlimited power an adult parent has over an infant would cause us all to behave like maniacs. Most parents of good character are in awe of the power they have over their helpless, totally dependent, infant children. And they exercise extreme conscientious caution in the exercise of their power. Character-impaired people pursue power too ravenously, and inevitably abuse it as soon as they get any modicum of it. And as for it’s adaptive value, it’s really this simple: The power and dominance-seeking drive is part of our evolutionary heritage. It’s a greater endowment in men (although some women have more than a fair dose of it, too) and at times in our early history, it was not only the key to our survival as a species against potential predators, but also key to the “fittest” among us prospering and reproducing. In the span of evolutionary history, this whole notion of “civilization” is but a mere blip in time. What was adaptive for a long, long time is no longer so adaptive. And as highly interdependent societies evolve even further, the dominance-seekers, power-seekers, and predators among us will have even less “adaptive value” and will become even more problematic. That said, because these tendencies always have been and will continue to be with us (and in varying degrees among men and women) the real challenge is in being aware of this early in development, taking “ownership” of the tendencies, and learning how to discipline them for both our own sake and for the sake of the rest of society. This is the greatest challenge for a new and more effective psychology paradigm. All the old fear and insecurity-based paradigms that totally ignored these innate drives in us have become virtually useless.
Dr. Simon, I will play the devils advocate here, for lack of a better term. SO, wouldn’t a CA pat himself on the back and say……”See!! I’m just being a man and doing what men do………grunt……me Tarzan you Jane, now get in the kitchen and get me a beer! This is the way it is supposed to be woman! I spread my seed and do as little as I can to follow through with that job. Who ever came up with this equality nonsense is making girls out of men! I’m not going to follow THAT herd over the cliff”!
I do believe now that Spathtard thought women were to be looked at and not heard. anything about me as a real person was wasted on him. That’s another thing I have come to realize now that the nerve toxin has seemingly worn off and I can think again……he rarely EVER asked me anything about me as a person, like the questions you ask someone you want to get to know?? Like the questions I asked him all the time? I remember asking him who the first person he ever had sex with was and he told me….so and so…. Now, wouldn’t the normal sequence of this be that he would ask me? What about you Puddle? Nothing. this is why this is SO hard to get over for me…….just one thing after another, one realization after another pointing me in the direction that I meant nothing what so ever to him. Never did and never would.
Talk about power over someone…….I can’t even describe so much of what I felt with him. I know he drugged me in a sense…with the illusion he created, the belief he fostered in me of undying love and a future. We belong together Puddle……we’re good together in so many ways.
This is exactly why I say, over and over again, that trying to get such folks to “see” is an absolute waste of time and energy. They ALREADY “see” how others look at life and the world, but prefer their “philosophy.” That’s also why I say that putting into place firm contingencies – and not bothering to red-flag them is the most effective thing. Behavior modifies when it’s no longer “enabled” or “reinforced” in any way. Now, because of aspects of our culture, unfortunately these folks experience enough enabling and reinforcement in enough areas to have trouble finding any motivation to modify their stance. And that’s why I embarked on my mission many years ago – changing the culture, one heart and mind at a time – and confronting, correcting, and especially CONSEQUENTING such dysfunctional behavior.
Dr. Simon, One thing I have not seen you write about or really speak about is the roll that trauma and betrayal bonds play in a victims ability to break away from someone who is manipulating and abusing them. It is partly cognitive dissonance, covert emotional manipulation, gas lighting, role playing/ mask wearing, I’m sure I have left something out. I’m not talking about your garden variety CA here but someone in the catagory of a Sadistic Aggressive, aka a Psychopath. I personally feel like I was drugged during the time I was involved with Spathtardx….Like my brain was numbed in some weird way.
Also….There is a small movement of sorts trying to bring attention to the fact that a person who has deceptively manipulated someone emotionally and had sexual relations with them is no different than getting that person drunk, giving them drugs, etc, in order to get the victim to comply. Anyhow, the “movement” centers around what is called “Rape by Fraud”. I think the title is self explanatory but it means, pretending to be someone you are not, or neglecting to tell someone pertinent information about yourself and engaging them in a sexual relationship.
Just curious what you think of these two topics.
Okay, I fell prey to a misconception. It seems that the saying “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” is akin to saying: “S/he got power and look what happened. It can’t be her/his fault.”
It was a GREAT show, Dr. Simon. I am so grateful for you!
Thanks so much, Becky. I was pretty nervous for the fist show. I haven’t done my own radio program for almost 50 years. But I hope to settle in to a good groove on it in the next couple of weeks. And I can’t wait for the chance to talk with some of the blog followers and others during call-in segments.
I am not sure I understand the show or how to listen to it!
Excuse me, Dr Simon, what time zone is it exactly? I missed the first one, not knowing when to plug in.
The program airs Sunday evenings at 7 pm Eastern and 6 pm Central (5 Mountain and 4 Pacific) time. And it’s almost always a live broadcast, which gives callers-in a chance to discuss issues with me and share experiences in real time.
It is also archived if you click the link above, you can listen to it today!!