Disturbed Characters Can Be Crazy-Makers

It seems like crazy-makers are everywhere these days. These are the folks you know in your gut there’s something wrong with. But somehow they make you feel like you’re crazy for thinking so. Crazy-makers prey on your good nature and your conscientiousness. They know you care enough to want to get things right. And it’s because you care so much that it’s easy to make you doubt what you can’t firmly prove. So, now you know the secret of interpersonal manipulation! Get someone to question what they know in their gut to be true, and you can have your way with them.

Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing

In my book In Sheep’s Clothing, I describe the consummate crazy-makers. I call them covert-aggressors,  These folks make you feel crazy by cloaking their true nature and intentions. They’re out to get the better of you, for sure.  But they don’t want you to know it. And when they sense you’re on to their game, they try to convince you that you have it all wrong. Unfortunately, they often possess skill at this. They can employ a slew of subtle tactics to make you doubt. Moreover, the more charming and polished they are at convincing you, the more unsure and crazy they can make you feel. Covert-aggression lies at the heart of manipulation.

“Gaslighting” and Its Effects

The term “gaslighting” has come into vogue in recent years. Some use the term to describe the crazy-making behavior of manipulators . I’ve posted many articles on this. (See:  Gaslighting Victims Question Their Sanity.)  (See also: How Manipulative Characters Gaslight.) But long before gaslighting became a fashionable term, I described the behavior and its effects.

Victims of covert-aggression often end up feeling confused, unsure, and even depressed. They try so hard to understand. But they don’t trust their gut instincts. This happens easily for folks who are conscientious. And good manipulators know this. In fact, they count on it!  They count on your good nature to be able to sway you. In the end, you end up feeling taken advantage of. You can also feel played for a fool. Nothing crushes the spirit quite like gaslighting. And all of my 4 books address just how this happens. They also tell you what you have to do to revitalize your spirit.

Ending the Craziness

I wrote In Sheep’s Clothing and my other books for one main reason.  I wanted to help folks put an end to the craziness they felt. Restoring one’s sanity takes both courage and understanding. Ultimately, you end the craziness when you understand and know how to respond to a manipulator’s tactics. Over the next few weeks, I’ll be revisiting manipulators’ favorite tactics. And I’ll be emphasizing what it takes to stop feeling crazy and become truly empowered and alive again.

Character Matters

Character Matters will air live Sunday March 18, so call in to join the conversation.

83 thoughts on “Disturbed Characters Can Be Crazy-Makers

  1. Hi George!

    I’m working on a book about this exact thing.

    “Humans have trouble detecting small difference,”

    –Daniel Kahneman
    In nature, species match color, texture, shape, and behavior to create a deception. Both predator and prey use pattern mimicry to confuse and weaken the other. The color of the tiger’s coat mirrors the landscape to help it blend in. The Oak Leaf Butterfly is shaped like a leaf. The cuddle fish looks like a cuddle. (Just kidding.) Actually, the cuddle fish matches the color and texture of the ocean floor or reef, and. This behavior occurs throughout the plant and animal kingdom, in simple and complex organisms. It even happens at the molecular level.

    Oh yeah, and humans do it too.

    Here is an example of how pattern mimicry might when you get into a conflict in the social environment: In your attempts to do the right thing, you apply a reasonable boundary on someone. This action creates a perceived threat in that person. That person then imitates the behavior of genuine victim, acting as if you had done something wrong. This behavior is probably happening automatically, though some might also be aware of the behavior and consciously use it as a tactic.

    1. Hi Gary,

      How long have you been following this blog? There are a few of use who are witting a book.. I an interested in what your findings are as I am writing a book also. A crosses crosses all gametes of life…

      Gods blessings to you and find whom and what you are looking for. Truly, it is right in front of you..

      Gods Peace Sunny

      1. btov,
        You are an imposter. Please go away. You are not Btov. You use all lower case letters in your name
        and your post makes no sense.

    2. Gary,

      I forget which cephalopod it is, possibly a cuttlefish, in order to get closer to a female who is being pursued by numerous other males will adopt the colors and textures of a female to evade the other males. It generally works out well.
      David Bowie and his band capitalized on a similar phenomenon by going ‘glam’. They out competed other males by looking more like females and were a raving success with women.

  2. BTOV,

    If you did write the above post, I apologize. It just doesn’t sound like you at all. Maybe you tapped it out on your cell phone so there were typos. I don’t know what gametes crosses crosses gametes means. Maybe I AM going crazy

    1. Lisa – No you are not going crazy, the btov (lower case) poster also made some strange comments back on the previous post as well. It’s a case of high strangeness.

      At any rate the web master who runs this site is able to track IP numbers at any rate. The doc will know if the btov posting now is coming from a different IP address or not. Wait and see I guess.

        1. Obviously everybody was wondering the same thing JC – no you are not the crazy one. It’s just ironic it happened on this post being the Crazy Making post of the docs…………………….it was very Twilight Zone.

          See this is why we should never doubt ourselves JC if there is something “off” it’s off period. We’ve all been here too long to not see a red flag when it presents itself and as Lisa said she thought btov was an imposter and I can clearly see why. It shows we’ve all got each other’s back.

          Well we all know why now, hopefully she’ll get a good rest and get herself back to that doctor. I noticed the posts a little while back started to acquire a strange ring to them. But this blog I though she’d had a mini stroke it’s just the lower case btov wasn’t supporting that theory.

          We can all just put it down to a Case of High Strangeness all thanks to BIG PHARMA – this is the toxic shyte they are trying to feed us. I hope BTOV makes a full recovery and will get back to normal soon.

    2. LisaO and all,

      I did write the above. I apologize to all, I didn’t mean to cause an alarm. My Dr. gave me some new medication, Tegretol for my Trigeminal Neuralgia. I didn’t know it would make me loopy, it did calm the pain down somewhat and made me very sleepy. I know I sleep well. I am not going to take this particular med again, it makes me feel weird. My mouth feels feels horrible, it is a wicked medication.

      There aren’t any true meds that work for TN unless one is on an extreme high dosage. Its trial and error to find a med that might give some relief. So its another med that will bite the dust. I will just have to live through those intense pain flareups.

      Again I apologize, for the upset…. You were right LisaO to suggest waiting till I posted. Now the hive can calm down..

      1. BTOV

        I am pleased to hear you are ok and nobody has you chained up in a back room somewhere – it was very disconcerting.

        I would strongly encourage you to stop posting for a while until the affects of this drug wear right off. You might say or do something you may regret – this drug affects mood too and is now being prescribed for Bi Polar in some instances. A friend of mine was put on them he has Bi Polar and he nearly blew his brains out – he told me about it and I’m pretty sure he mentioned this particular drug – I would honestly have to check.

        It’s more than a wicked medication it is extremely dangerous and comes with an explicit RX drug warning. It also causes necrolysis – I’m pretty sure nobody wants that. It sounds like it should be taken off the market immediately it’s not fit to for human consumption.


        “So the hive can calm down” ?? I am assuming this is the affect of this drug too? The drug affects mood big time apparently – it’s obviously had a major impact in many areas. It’s probably a good idea to just switch the computer off for a few days, get some rest and get straight back to that doctor.

        I’m sorry you have had to go through this experience. We are all here to support you but right now you need to look after yourself and get this situation resolved for your own sake.

        Take care……………

        1. I read that last sentence as well and still not completely convinced its BTOV, well meds can do that, so I will be praying for you BTOV, I am very sorry to hear of the pain flare-up, I think Eudoxia’s words are wise, take care of yourself and rest and see the doctor again.

          1. Kat,

            Thank you for the prayers, prayer is powerful. I think we all need to take care of ourselves everyday. Kat, I advocate for myself and done so for many years. I have also advocated for many people in my lifetime. It happens my friend who is my POA for healthcare is my doctors nurse practitioner. My mother is a retired ER Nurse.

            More than anything, I don’t need controversy. I tried something new and it affected me. I don’t like the feeling of fogginess, its a med to use in critical flareups. Ice and capsacian do wonders. Any way thank you for your kind concern.

            Its important never to conclude until all the facts are in, if we let our thoughts get away on us we can create crazy making. Now lets move on, its a beautiful day and I am going to Restore as much of my lost time today with positive. Kat, when I really hurt, I am in constant prayer and my mantra is Jesus, he gives me his strength.

            Some good books, any of Dr. Scott Pecks, if you have time start with The Road Less Traveled. There are two others that follow. Then we come to Dr. Pecks book called: The People of the Lie.

            Dr. Peck had his Come to Jesus Moment too, he became a believer.
            The books that followed People of the Lie describe many life changing moments in his life. Dr. Peck is outstanding and his life is one based on personal transformation and his humanity to touch others and make this a better world.

            Kat, you can google Dr. Peck and see all the books he wrote. I think the book, A Road Less Traveled was on the best seller list for almost a decade.

            Another author to Google is Dr. Henry McCloud and John Townsend, they co-authored together. (He is a Christian) very good books.

            I have plenty more books and will have to dig through them. Many times you can find these books in thrift stores, I buy extras and give them out. Also, there is an online book store called: Thrift Books. Many times they have sales 4 for $12.00. and a requirement for free shipping.

            I hope this helps. Thank you again for the prayers, they mean a lot to me and give me strength.


          2. BTOV, just want you to know I prayed for you today as well. I know I only know you on the internet but God knows who you are and I pray for your pain to subside. I have read boundaries by henry mccloud & john townsend, a very good book. They have classes around that book at a church nearby and I have sat in a couple times on those classes. I will check out that book site, I use to go to half.com but they are no longer around. I will check those books out, I appreciate you letting me know about them. I have a book written by a Christian author with an inscription written inside from somebodys parents I thought was beautiful, it says , “we can glean so much helpful information from the insight of others. I hope you’ll both read lots of books because the richness of lots of ideas can make our life so much better”. It was written from a Mom and Dad to their children.
            I remember in collage one of my instructors would always say “assume nothing”, he really got on you for assumptions, I guess a lesson he must have learned the hard way.
            I hope you can find something to take the edge off till the pain subsides, our bodies are fearfully and wonderfully made but so complex.

          3. Kat,

            Thank you for the kind words and encouragement, prayer is powerful.
            You are right, God knows who we are. I pray for Dr. Simons blog everyday and He knows. I was told long time ago never to assume, the cliche “it makes an ass out of you and me.” so I am told.

            I know a doctor who once worked for an insurance company, he examined a woman and took her history, he concluded in his report she was histrionic, good at fabricating scenarios and had mental issues instead of PTSD. It was a rather involved and publicized case.

            At the trial tangible and recorded evidence was provided that substantiated her allegations. The Dr. said after the trial he quit the insurance company and went into private practice. The Doc told me he had several patients over the years that reported what most would think were whopper stories. The Dr. said after the trial he had learned never to assume. The Dr. said in several cases, in the end the whoppers were true. So I learned a lesson.

            Its a lesson I forget sometimes and must improve on. Kat, if you have any suggestions for good reads please let us know. I read a lot. Again, thank you for your kindness, it means a lot when one is in pain. I am going to drag myself to church, I have a great family there and am blessed to have them, they will all hug and encourage, it is powerful. I will ask them to pray for you too, all of you. Many Blessings.

        2. Eudox,

          I think you assume to much. I believe, I explained well enough this afternoon. I have posted in the past I have TN, perhaps, that is before you came to this site. I do not drink booze either.

          If you would like to give support I would ask for you to understand what TN is, more people than you realize suffer from it. There is nothing to resolve except to stop taking the medication. I am fine………..
          Truly, I appreciate your concern and well wishes.

          1. BTOV – it is late afternoon my time.

            I understand you do have TN we have discussed it before on many occasions. I did not suggest you do drink booze – I said your posts came across that way. I am not going to explain myself further suffice to say you sounded like you were losing your marbles sweety.

            You are not thinking straight right now and I suggest you stop posting for your own benefit and deal with this situation and go back to your doctor. Your posts freaked quite a few of us out not just me.

            I think you are doing more harm than good to yourself right now by posting and I am not saying this to criticize you in any way I am just saying you should get some rest.

          2. I think all this has taken on a needless life of it own, out of proportion and context for the sake of talking. I am well taken care of on this end and am more that capable to speak for myself. There doesn’t need to be an immense ado about nothing.

            I had been in contact with my healthcare providers and there wasn’t or is there any concern. I am blessed as I have many health care professionals as personal friends and socialize with. It’s not anyone’s position to opine my medical status and to suggest what I should or should not do when one hasn’t a clue to who I am in contact with or what I am doing.

            I think I explained way more than was necessary, I owned the honest mishap which really wasn’t anything, I apologized for it. I shared way more than enough personal info.

            I think for future purposes none of us should jump to unnecessary conclusions without having all the facts. Yes, LisaO said lets wait for BTOV, good solid advice and judgement. I explained what happened, it happens all the time to people.

            If you look at all the needless discussion, speculation, even suggesting mental illness IMO, this incident took on since I explained what happened, it says something about what we need to focus on, rather than having something to chatter about .

            Plain and simple all this has gotten blown out of proportion for no good reason. It shows how misconstrued and out of context something can become. A herd mentality instead of thinking it through. Again, thanks LisaO for a level head.

            If you would like to support me, understand I have severe pain issues, so do several others, be considerate, kind, ask questions you may have and be gracious without assuming. I didn’t need another conflict to deal with. Its should be noted this medication is a life saver for many who have this affliction. TN is known for being the worst pain known to man. Many suffer in silence. I thought I could trust sharing.

            You are all special to me, blessings to all.

          3. BTOV

            I read but almost never post.
            I looked up TN I had never heard of it but it turns out that I am suffering from it myself. It began after a surgery to my left cheek which has left me without feeling on the left side of my nose lips and cheek…….except for the frequent searing shooting pains (which thankfully only last a few seconds) into my lip that I experience several times a day.
            I did not know there was a name for this. None of my medical team have ever mentioned it by name.
            Now I have more knowledge.
            I am sending out a prayer for you.

  3. Lisa et All – and I do mean All,

    There is something very wrong with the poster btov (lower case). Can you all please go back to the doc’s previous post and also see the comments by btov there. They are all filled with very weird dialogue.

    Firstly BTOV is not illiterate the person posting as btov not only struggles with English but is also not coherent. Or if it is BTOV then it sounds like she’s have had a mild stroke or has hit the booz?? But the lower case makes no sense either here??? Because the replies to posts etc appear to be coming from the same person.

    Secondly one of her/? replies to kat ended with “My kindred spirit, I am proud of you…… ah no sorry BTOV would not call somebody MY anything. BTOV knows that “My” alludes to property and knows how CD objectify people and claim ownership over them. “I am proud of you” why should BTOV be proud of kat like a parent is proud of a child or a teacher is proud of a student etc………. this doesn’t make sense.

    And I don’t know if anybody else got this message from site admin “we are pausing your posts” when we get an excessive amount of posts once we’ve clicked the “keep me updated” box – the posts on the site as it stands is not excessive. Lisa did you get this message? This is a case of high strangeness all round. I just hope Dr Simon is paying attention to this.

    Also I had another weird text from a friend of mine – it was very similar. The only thing I am certain of is this situation is getting very Twilight Zone ish………………………… and on the topic of gaslighting of all topics!

  4. Dear George Simon and Friends, i am so glad that people are comparing notes concerning (precisely) what and how, exceedingly-vile people have done to them/their loved ones. The evil, of course, call this “complaining.” But we know, the vile are so fOOl of themselves. The wicked can take their word-salad recipe and…chuck it.

  5. Nice again to see the written information here’s made out of all these gut feelings. In my very fresh experience I met people who were about to make me a mouse in a cats family, but identifying the facts without the performance around me clearly showed that the things are not the way is should be. As is was partly relating job, emails with the written straight questions, limited communication and lying back ( unfortunately- yes, to some questions I lied to make a wrong impression) I skipped this stage of my life without fooling myself with people like that. Does it mean I’m cinic? No, I’m just saving my time where it’s possible for the ones who deserve it.

  6. Eudoxia, Kat, Lucy,

    I get the feeling more than one poster is posting from a boiler room scam operation in Nigeria. Be careful.

    No Eudoxia, I don’t get email updates, so don’t have the same issues as you do, if you are.

    I hope the upper case BTOV shows up to let us know if she is also the lower case btov.

    . I have heard MANY people in the last 20 years state they are ‘proud of’ people who are almost complete strangers. Expressing admiration is worded this way.

    It drives me batty too but it has become almost normal. Yes, being proud of another, assumes a super close or familial relationship and there are undertones of ‘ownership’ there too.

    It is inappropriate to use outside of a particular realm of relationship. It’s like using the pronoun tu instead of vous, in Spain. Did that by total accident a few times and Spaniards stared at me like I was from Mars.

    1. Hi Lisa

      I don’t know about the vu vs vous in Spainish but saying the wrong thing to the wrong person can cause all sorts of drama we don’t need – like getting our heads kicked in lol. Wouldn’t be funny though……….

      The pause comments notice I get when there is generally A LOT of activity on the site. I get a message in my inbox saying:

      “Heads up: the conversation around Disturbed Characters Can Be Crazy-Makers is heating up. You love email — but maybe not this much. We’re going to pause notifications for you to prevent a flood in your inbox”.

      I only have to click on a resume button for it to continue but I got that last night only after 8 posts so it was odd but obviously an unrelated coincidence.

      Over admiration is something all people who have gone through the love bombing “grooming phase” of the CD would get goose bumps from and it was the exact affect it had on me.

      I’m glad BTOV came online to explain what had happened. I hope she is not upset by my post but I had to speak candidly about this.

      I was watching a movie and cooking dinner and thought I’d slipped into a parallel dimension I got another weird text from a friend of mine. Right in the same grain as btov’s posts but different topic – just not making sense at all. I had not heard from her in about 3 months and got this text out of the blue with this weird advice “sugar cubes and pine turps helps get rid of the nasties – research” WTF?

      I texted her back and she still has not replied. I googled it and it’s for Candida apparently which I don’t have – whether she does not I don’t know because right about now I still have no clue what is going on with her??? do do do do – do do do do – Twighlight Zone! Very reminiscent of it anyway……….

      Happy Sunday! lol

        1. Lisa – seriously it’s totally ironic. The title of this particular post “Disturbed Characters Can be Crazy Makers” both instances………….just a bit too “out there”

          But I know it’s definitely NOT ME! lol

          1. And you know what is stranger? I was just reading about a couple named ‘Turpin’ and thinking what an odd name it was, reminded me of ‘turpentine.’ So your sugar cube and pine turpentine email that I read just afterwards was odd. How often does turpentine come up in my life in any context? Like never!

            Have you followed that story. Do a google news search. I don’t know what to make of them. Their poor kids!

      1. Eudox.

        No I am not upset, I rarely ever get upset. Also, what may be a side effect for one may not be for another. I think it might be better to ask, rather than answer or assume. Thank you for the well wishes.

  7. Oh Btov,
    SO relieved you’re okay! One of the meds I take for neuropathic pain has a similar effect. When I first started taking it my behavior was very different. I still take it because it works so well–am just really careful!

    1. To All,

      I have taken meds for a number of years for TN. It seems I build up a tolerance and then we go try another med. Its like playing musical chairs with what may help for awhile. It is one that can usually get the firing to calm down. Whats problematic is when ones system builds up resistance quickyl. Most people have no clue to what neuropathic pain entails.

      Considering the severity of pain TN causes it sufferers, Tegretol has been a life saver for many and I mean that literally. I wish more people had a understanding of how neuropathic pain affects ones quality of life. I am glad you have an understanding LisaO. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone. Many times we suffer in silence until it subsides. Kindred Spirits in the game of pain… It sure keeps one humble.

        1. Jc,

          I am so sorry to hear that, then you should understand. If I may ask, what branch does it affect on you and how did yours start?

          1. JC

            The dental connection no one whats to own. I can’t tell you how many people have related their TN to dentistry. Do you ever get relief or is your considered more atypical?

  8. Lisa

    Have you seen a picture of the Turpins? I didn’t know about it so I did a search and there is a photo of them although the kids have their faces blurred out but the parents send shivers up my spine…………………………………….they look like something out of Dawn of the Dead especially the mother.


    The tragedy of this is that the kids in all likeliness (maybe not all) but many of them will end up CD as well. Only CD are capable of inflicting this type of horror on another individual particularly their own children. Clinically insane or psychopathic? At the very least the parents should be locked up for the term of their natural lives. It is very clear they objectified those children. They were in turned into Mini Mes and used as a form of income – they had no human value to their parents whatsoever. They are dark souls.

  9. JC
    You may already be aware of the Facial Pain Organization. There is a wealth of information on this site and also a great interactive blog. You will get tremendous support from the members and doctors. It helps when you have a network of people who understand. At one time I participated in a research study…

    You are in my prayers and a special Kindred Spirit, unless one has experienced TN, they really don’t know, do they? I hope this link helps…


  10. Thank you.

    Dental is connected, that stuff almost killed me.

    Chronic sepsis and chronic meningitis, for over a year.

      1. jc,

        The important thing for you to remember is, knowledge is power. You have educated yourself on both of these adverse conditions. It is a triple whammy to deal with pain and then have CD people causing problems and then labeling you the CD one.

        Keep up the good work, you have come so far and can be proud of yourself, I am proud of myself. Its difficult to deal with issues when you are attacked from all angles.

        I see they have added more classifications to TN. I will have to get updated material and think I will join again. At one time I got to know quite a few people there. It is so important to advocate for yourself and research as much as you can.

        I have gotten some decent relief at times, from reducing stress, eating right and the herbs I am taking. As you recommended, Ashwaganda is an excellent. I am tincturing it from raw organic plants. Being proactive in your own health care is a must.

        JC, I think the more you let go of the CDN in your life the better you will feel in realms of your being. Its not an easy road, but nevertheless we are traveling it, moving forward instead of staying stuck.

        What always sticks in my mind and gives me strength, is when the Apostle Paul asked God to heal him and God said: Isn’t my Grace enough.
        Yes, it enough, as these words encourage me, they keep me Humble. I see people who are blind, no legs, no arms, wheel chair bound, yes, I am grateful and Gods grace is plenty for me.

        Prayer is my saving grace and comfort. JC, keep your faith, guard it with you life and be on watch at all times lest someone hijacks it from you. Please keep me in your prayers and you are in mine for you to receive healing.

        If you have time, think about joining the TN blog. There are a lot of kind, sincere Kindred Spirits there. Not much time for crazy-making when trying to find pain relief. What is amazing is the happiness and joy that exudes from the ones in the most pain.

        Thank you for sharing, yes, dental is biggie and many in the field want to dismiss and deny it culpability.

        I have some good books buried on this topic. When I come across any good titles I would be most willing to share, likewise, I would appreciate anything you come across or any modalities that have helped you.

        When one is in pain one can easily fall into a pit of despair or we can look for the beauty in others and our surroundings, we can count or blessings.
        God always make a way for his children and hears their cries.

        Thank you JC, I don’t feel so alone, now,I know LisaO suffers too. I respect both of you in your humility to trudge forward.

        JC, Thank you for sharing, you made my day.
        You are a lovely ray of Sunshine… Hugs..

    1. JC,

      We can Restore that self will. We restore when we search and seek..
      Knock and it shall open, Seek and you will find, never lose faith and hope.
      We can Restore, JC. I know many times things look bleak and it can seem hopeless, this is when you need to reach our and find people who will support you. JC, there are people who care, not the one that spew friendship but the ones who will love us and accept us,

      I know its hard for you being in a state without family to help and support you. It is what it is, we need to know when those doors we need to knock and seek. A paralyzed woman said to me once when my legs were paralyzed and I was in a wheelchair. She said: “When a door closes, always, remember to check the windows, God always leaves an opening.” He sure does, JC.

      JC, In this busy little beehive of a blog, we have a little family of sorts that buzzes across oceans. Know that you are member of our little family here. You have a place here JC, know that we care about you. Please know you are always welcomed. You do have a home of sorts….

      How are you knees coming along?

    1. JC,

      That is great, I hope you heal completely. If I may ask, have you had any luck with any particular modality or herbs?

  11. JC,

    That can be a whole lot of things. I do eat a lot of spinach and just ordered powdered kelp and olive leaf powder, its for the oleuropein.
    I make my own Greek yogurt an Kiefer. I have used molds and colloidal silver.
    Turmeric is good and I made a type of organic oral, gel.
    I am meeting with on of my docs wife and his nurse and we are going to be making lotions and salve. Lots of experiments. Hoping again to Restore health.
    Barometric changes, wind and cold do trigger.

    JC, in this crazy making world the only thing I know is to stay positive. Negativity pulls us down into the mire. Where I am at it is an absolutely, beautiful day. Just taking in the Gods creation and the warmth of the sun. One hears all interaction of business, ants, birds, bug, flying geese, the lapping at the shoreline and even a fly. There is freedom when one is at peace for a moment, the idea is to Restore these moments. Thank you for the nice interchange of sharing.

  12. But turmeric is in my diet for gastroparesis (turmeric tea), and improved with anti inflammatory diet.

    The lamotrigine is one of few things I can function on.

  13. “I think all this has taken on a needless life of it own, out of proportion and context for the sake of talking. I am well taken care of on this end and am more that capable to speak for myself. There doesn’t need to be an immense ado about nothing.

    I had been in contact with my healthcare providers and there wasn’t or is there any concern. I am blessed as I have many health care professionals as personal friends and socialize with. It’s not anyone’s position to opine my medical status and to suggest what I should or should not do when one hasn’t a clue to who I am in contact with or what I am doing.

    I think I explained way more than was necessary, I owned the honest mishap which really wasn’t anything, I apologized for it. I shared way more than enough personal info.

    I think for future purposes none of us should jump to unnecessary conclusions without having all the facts. Yes, LisaO said lets wait for BTOV, good solid advice and judgement. I explained what happened, it happens all the time to people.

    If you look at all the needless discussion, speculation, even suggesting mental illness IMO, this incident took on since I explained what happened, it says something about what we need to focus on, rather than having something to chatter about .

    Plain and simple all this has gotten blown out of proportion for no good reason. It shows how misconstrued and out of context something can become. A herd mentality instead of thinking it through. Again, thanks LisaO for a level head.

    If you would like to support me, understand I have severe pain issues, so do several others, be considerate, kind, ask questions you may have and be gracious without assuming. I didn’t need another conflict to deal with. Its should be noted this medication is a life saver for many who have this affliction. TN is known for being the worst pain known to man. Many suffer in silence. I thought I could trust sharing.

    You are all special to me, blessings to all.”

    BTOV – this post reeks of patronizing tones. If you are surrounded by medical professionals who are your friends and who you socialize with then why didn’t you contact one instead of coming online when you noticed yourself going “loopy” your own words?

    If you come onto this forum yabbering incoherent jibberish using a handle that is different of course there will be comments you can expect it. The use of condescending language such as “herd mentality” and “hive mind” is an insult to the intelligence of the posters here and you have no right to do so regardless of your condition. Nobody on this forum intended you harm in any way. You could say we had your back.

    I suggested you step back and maybe not comment until the affects of the drug wore off. Perhaps you should have. You are the only one who has created further controversy here just as you were the one who started it.

  14. BTOV,

    I’ve taken Tegretol and a number of others over the 4 1/2 years since that started, with GI paralysis, I am balancing a lot of what I do take will cause the GI to worsen, Tegretol was a bad deal in that respect.

    It only helped some, pain was intense burning at first, and in 4 years no relief, the Midwest summer thunderstorms added a worsened and even more disabling piece to the picture.

    And was the kind of pain as you know, makes you want to kill yourself before it gets worse.

    Correct you are too. Letting go of both narcs, has been a huge pain management factor.

    That and doubling my Vitamin D3 to 5,000 IU/day is the final piece that brought pain to way more tolerable levels, once completely refractory to anything, that Vitamin D levels were so tightly linked was the other piece of the picture.

    My last option was injections at Mayo, which I wanted to avoid, thus far have.

    1. J C,

      Thank you, for sharing. I have had a lot testing too. You are right about the burning. I to one of the World conference on TN at Mayo where all the top doctors who research TN met. It lasted for 3 days where they had speakers on specific topics talk and the audience could interact and ask questions. Everyday was something else, doctors gave individual classes on specific topics and one could choose which class you wanted.

      What was nice is you meet the top physicians in the world. Since we advocate for ourselves and belong to the TN A one is able to make appointments with these doctors, whereas they are closed to taking on new patients. I learned so much and again, knowledge is power. There is supposed to be a free webinar being put out I will have to see if I missed it. If its still possible to sign up I can let you know.

      Reducing stress is a must in reducing pain. This is an affliction only another sufferer can understand. I might try the lamotrigine, with tegratol I must have regular blood tests. My doc friend said to expect a sleepy and groggy effect until you become accustomed to it. My vitals are all good. I definitely will try upping the vitamin D3, I was told to take Vitamin E with it. I have good results with Lyrica, it seems to address both the Fybro an burning. If there is stress, the meds don’t help much….

      I will have to research about the injections, I know they suggested Gamma Knife and I declined, also recommend the surgery for decompression, also declined. I think having a knowledge of homeopathic remedies is a blessing in that we research herbs and modalities we know we can get some relief with. Also I found out it is a important tool when you find someone that is researching the same as you are and shares their knowledge.

      I truly understand JC, it is also extremely difficult to suffer alone, as most do not understand how excruciating and debilitating TN is. I am glad we are able to share this together. Anytime you are welcome to let me know. My pain is originates from my #4 tooth, where does yours come from?

      1. My neurologist likes to use Lamotrigine, the pain became crushing though at some point, which was worse than the burning.

          1. To All and Joey,

            Sent from a friend and hope you all enjoy:

            Pearls of Wisdom from Steve Jobs


            Steve Jobs, the CEO of Apple, died a billionaire. Here are some of

            his last thoughts and words: “I reached the pinnacle of success in thebusiness world. In others’ eyes, my life is the epitome of success.

            However, aside from work, I have little joy. In the end, wealth is

            only a fact of life that I have become accustomed to.

            At this moment, I am on my sick bed and recalling my life. I

            realize that all of the recognition and wealth in which I took so much pride have become meaningless in the face of my impending death.
            You can employ someone to drive a car for you and to make money for you;

            but you cannot employ anyone to bear illness for you. Material

            things, when lost, can be found; but the one thing that can never be

            found when it is lost is your health and eventually your life itself.

            When a person goes into the operating room, he realizes that there

            is one book that he has yet to finish reading, “The Book of Healthy

            Life”. Whatever stage in life we are at currently, in time we all

            face that day when the curtain comes down. Treasure love for your

            family, love for your spouse and love for your friends. Treat

            yourself well and cherish others.

            As we grow older, and hopefully wiser, we slowly realize that

            wearing a $3,000.00 or a $30.00 watch is not important. The time is

            the same. Whether we carry a $300.00 or $30.00 wallet/handbag, the contents are the same. Whether we drink a bottle of $100 or $10 wine,the hangover is the same.

            Whether the house we live in is 300 or 3,000 sq. ft., the loneliness is the same. Whether you fly first class or economy if the plane goes down, you go down with it.

            You will come to realize that true inner happiness does not come from the material things of this world.

            Therefore, treasure your buddies, old friends, brothers and

            sisters. Chat often, laugh, sing songs with them. Talk about

            north-south-east-west, or heaven & earth. That is true happiness.”

            Six Undeniable Facts of Life

            1. Don’t educate your children to be rich. Educate them to be

            happy, so when they grow up they will know the value of things and

            not just their price.

            2. “Eat your food as your medicines, otherwise you have to eat

            medicines as your food.”

            3. The one who loves you will never leave you for another because,

            even if there are 100 reasons to give up, he or she will find that

            one reason to hold on.

            4. There is a big difference between a human being and being human.

            5. You are loved when you are born. You will be loved when you

            die. In between, only YOU are in charge of your life.

            6. If you just want to walk fast, then walk alone. However, if you

            want to walk far, then walk together.

            The Six Best Doctors 1. Sunlight 2. Rest 3. Exercise 4. Diet

            5. Self Confidence 6. Friends

  15. BTOV,

    Sorry to hear what you are going through, the pain in your face and trying out a med. Sometimes, with severe pain, I’d rather be loopy than in pain, seriously. I hope you got some relief. Anyway, that day is done and over with. Life is imperfect. We learn and move on.
    I’m not going to mention that incident again.
    Off topic, today, I signed THE LAST papers finalizing the divorce so as soon as he comes in today to sign the jackass will have no further holds on me. Case closed!!
    Now onto the task of restoring my life. Now that I’m in charge of myself, it’s up to me to make the life I desire. And I’m pumped!

    1. Lucy,

      Thank you for the kind words, yes, it is better, actually took another and it helped tremendously, I slept like a baby and it feels so good. I appreciate you understanding, I was actually corresponding with another person while on the blog, I do it all the time, I learned my lesson. Thanks for understanding. And yes, it is a closed and finished.

      WOW, WOW, WOW, I am so happy for you. Its been a long haul, you have gone through so much. I admire your fortitude, tenacity and above all your graceful character. Your a shining example for others to see and know ” It Can Be Done.” Its wonderful to have the last chain around your neck loosed.

      You have me pumped too. I just love your post on RESTORING. I am doing the same thing and I feel good about it. So out of the ashes we see growth.
      Go for it Lucy, make that life you always wanted come true.

      From me to you, a warm hug and my prayers of many blessings, asking that your life be fill with happiness. Just WOW, you made my day, no, you made an example I will always remember. You are my Kindred Spirit Sister on this part of my journey. I will always will I remember your perseverance and the ability to keep going forward. Truly, you are an amazing woman..

      God bless you and your loved ones always.

  16. To All,
    Perfect example today of what chronic stress living with (or in my case trying to divorce) a CDN can do to one’s outlook and appearance — For the second time this month I encountered a person at work, one who I don’t see daily but sporadically, and he commented that he can’t believe the difference in my look, my face, my glow. He said he’d never seen me like this. He didn’t know me before the turmoil brought on by the CDN, only during. He says my whole appearance has changed. (It’s only been a month since the leech is off my back). But I told him, yes, generally I’d been a naturally happy person, but the turmoil the man put me through was almost unbearable.
    What I’m saying is it’s clear to myself and those around me that living with a CDN can wreck havoc on your body and spirit, and it’s evident by your physical appearance, the way you carry yourself, the expression on your face when life is good to you and when it’s bad. Living with a CDN chips away at your heart and soul and I felt it killing both.
    But, I’m back and restoring what’s been lost in many ways.

    1. Lucy

      That’s great to here. It’s truly amazing what happens when we put them behind us (and all focus on them) then we no longer carry them in our energy field.

      In the last 6 months I’ve done a complete turnaround and I can see the difference even in my posts going back in time where I was really bitter and negative – not anymore. Putting our attention on them is Wrongtown! A huge learning curve for me was unlearning a bent toward being a compulsive fixer – I had to take a big step back from that. If somebody was suffering it was my ultimate duty to make them feel better – Wrongtown! The only person I can control is myself – I have no control over external events or others (trying to fix them or not- it’s just a faulty program) or sacrificing pieces of myself in order to make others feel better (one of the biggest narc hooks ever) Wrongtown!. I spent quite a good portion of my life in Wrongtown – no wonder I was attracting them – not anymore.

      I have got my mojo back and even better than before any disordered beings entered the picture and my quality of life has improved exponentially in all areas especially since I’ve stopped trying to fix things. I’m attracting totally different people into my life now. My boundaries are no longer porous and have solidified – disordered people don’t like boundaries. I’ve proven this to myself a gazillion times when we are genuinely radiating joy and happiness that is exactly what comes back to us (but it has to be authentic). When we are putting out grief, anxiety and negativity even if we don’t realise we are – we get back more anxiety, fear, grief back.

      Life really is a mirror which is why I love this quote “Beauty is truth’s smile when she beholds herself in a perfect mirror” Rabindranath Tagore

      In other words smile and the world smiles with you…………………………….. 

      Keep smiling!

  17. BTOV

    I read but almost never post.
    I looked up TN I had never heard of it but it turns out that I am suffering from it myself. It began after a surgery to my left cheek which has left me without feeling on the left side of my nose lips and cheek…….except for the frequent searing shooting pains (which thankfully only last a few seconds) into my lip that I experience several times a day.
    I did not know there was a name for this. None of my medical team have ever mentioned it by name.
    Now I have more knowledge.
    I am sending out a prayer for you.

    1. E,

      If you post again, let me know your watching the blog and I can direct you to some good resources that may help.

      My heart goes out to you, only people who have this affliction truly know how torturous and painful it is to live with this.

      God bless and my prayers are with you also.

  18. E, BTOV, and whomever else will hopefully benefit,

    There is a great deal of healing power, also in forgiveness.

    It does not mean that you set yourself up to be hurt over and over again, though, and knowing the difference, but the ability also to look at the situation and see that sometimes, God is also at work in even people where we thought we’d never see it, changes, and a narc is one. That is up to a given person, or given situation.

    In the situation of the guy in MercyMe, it sounds like his own father was the type that normally, one would have to walk away and just let go of the idea that there would be much change-but God works in many different ways.

    Fredom from bondage for me, has been taking place, slowly, that kind of change, doesn’t happen overnight, but as soon as I began to pray for my parents to get everything I want for myself-the desire to bond, the desire to guard my own heart with healthy boundaries, and then ending that prayer each day with, “Today, I choose to forgive,” and allow that slate finally to become clean.

    And even though I don’t have contact with my mother, not regularly, because that is a stressor that I can’t handle for one, it is healthy boundaries for another. I have found that the things I have been praying for her to get in her own life, and I think adding that piece into the way it’s outlined in the AA Big Book, in the chapter called, “Freedom from Bondage”, only I did one thing differently, adding the statement, “Today, I choose to forgive.”

    In that there is freedom, as you are free to have and do the things you never thought would happen.

    In many ways, this is how I am continuing to give myself some healing. And that is always ongoing.

    It opens all kinds of doors.

    The TN has been much better too since I began doing this, as well as my knee healing right on schedule from what the doctor says.

    It also makes it easier to accept help from counselors, etc-because there was also the resentment from being pawned off on them since the age of 13.

    1. JC, that’s wonderful that you have experienced the power of forgiveness and prayer. Always good to hear how peoples lives have been transformed.

  19. I always loved that song, never was sure why.

    Forgiving abuse like I’m guessing any of us have experienced in these forums, is also what defines you.

    For me, it spells out also that I’m not like the people who brought me harm, but illustrates by example, how I am different than even a couple months ago.

    1. JC, Kat,

      I forgave long ago, it’s really unnecessary baggage to carry around. I am glad you are doing so well..

      1. BTOV, others,

        Not only is the forgiveness healing for the spirit, it is also one of the best pain management tools.

        It also illustrates the differences between myself and either one of my parents, there is a book called, the “Language of Letting Go,” and IMO, it is best summed up in one sentence, “Today, I choose to forgive (fill in).”

        The it’s up to God to help change how you feel.

        1. JC,

          It is about giving it all over to God. When we let go and give all to God it is liberating and we are set free. I did this long ago and it released me from carrying around this chain of bandage. Again so glad to know you have found the answer. I do have the book too.

          Prayer is power and I do know two people who did turn their lives around. JC, the more prayers the better for both of you. Many of these people we still have to stay no contact with. As in the case of Apostle Paul, his heart was changed so was the heart of the thief on the cross. This is exactly why Jesus gave us these examples. Hearts can change….

          1. BTOV,

            I have heard people (more than one) say that things in me have really changed. That is what defines me as different from my family-or the ones I now call “affected’ by what I can only call a “spiritual malady.”

            And I had began accepting that what I may have is BPD, but that is the thing, that I have noticed in my inventory (a continuing process) and with BPD, medications tend to make it worse, which isn’t necessarily the case for me.

            Which really is obviously, IMO, good new, there is medication (so to speak) for what I have. Not the case for everyone. But after someone has used mental illness to be abusive and have me inappropriately medicated, and without my consent, it changed my views on the subject. Less is more.

            Someone asked me if I have compassion for the kid that I was so many years ago, who was being hurt by the person who was supposed to be taking care of her-the answer is yes-and for the one my mother was even more years ago.

            Compassion is one thing-setting up to be hurt is another.

            But what I did was pray, “Today, I choose to forgive” and then between myself and God, “God, I have forgiven, now I need you to change the way I feel.”

            The rest, nothing I can do.

            And this allows me to forgive myself too for my own actions the past number of years-guilt laden folks will usually self-sabotage on their own. And sometimes when you begin to feel like you are getting blessings you may not deserve, you also have to remember the analogy that people who you’ve hurt may be sending you blessings rather than swallowing poison and waiting for you to die.

            Losing self will, which as you said, BTOV, isn’t necessarily a bad thing (it isn’t, unless you are filled with self-will), but remembering to put God’s will first, is the best thing I have done for myself.

          2. JC,

            You have changed considerably since you first started posting. Lets just say you sounded like a very hurt and confused person at first. When one such as yourself has so many maladies going on chaotically in one environment, physical self, family, heart, mind and spiritually, it is first unfair and I believe unprofessional to diagnose someone reliably.

            JC, I think from what you have said and how your life has changed considerably you may have been misdiagnosed. I believe if you keep going forward, making all these positive changes in light of all the other difficulties in life you have you may find a different person than how you have defined in the past.

            Letting go and forgiving sets you free to think about yourself, to work on yourself to make the changes you need to in order to have a better life. Keep up the positive changes you are making, I am so happy for you, you have come a long way in a short time.

            It makes me happy to hear when another progresses and as Lucy said, Restore ones life. JC, you are Restoring yourself and your life and doing one great job. Don’t let setbacks pull you down, use them to grow in wisdom and strength.


          1. JC,

            Thank you, I will listen later and am looking forward to it. I find the Psalms and Proverbs including the words of Jesus comforting and full of wisdom in how to live ones life. There are so many answers and words of encouragement.

          2. JC, Kat,

            Thank you, a very good post. Kat. I think you may enjoy the links JC posted. Can you imagine, Yes, I can imagine. It takes time JC, you are getting there> Stay the course of the path your on and in the end you will receive the prize. Its not easy to put the past behind us, you are doing a great job of it.

            Hugs and many blessings

          3. BTOV, JC, E, I was sad to hear of your condition with TN, I hope science can find a way to help, in the meanwhile I hope you all find relief. Emotional pain is one thing, but actual physical pain to me is worse. I have an autoimmune condition that flares up now and again and is extremely painful at times so I know just a little of the pain involved. About Christian literature, I am very guarded about what I read, I recently ordered a book that I will throw in the trash, I did not research the author and went by the Title. This man had a worldwide ministry before his death, but his teaching is not scriptural on many levels. I heard something that was scriptural the other day from a pastor, coming to God is about self-denial – Luke 9:23 …”whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me”. This is a very unpopular notion with the modern church who believe coming to God is about self-fulfillment. Matthew 10:39 “Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it”. So we do get the prize in the end, a personal relationship with the Triune God. Pretty much the opposite of how our minds work.

          4. BTOV,

            Mercy Me is coming to Iowa, and I did find four tickets-cost me a fortune, I had to take the money out of savings, but I got so much out of the movie, it’s going to be worth it.

            I can imagine too, and that will be an amazing time, as it is truly finding peace.

            Peace to you guys,

          5. JC,

            Mercy Me will be where I live in Oct., I will have to think about going. Why did you buy 4 tickets? Its nice the concert will be outside. I am sure you will gain an amazing amount of inspirations from going. I loved the music and am going to see if I can buy the CD.

            A complete reversal from crazy making to filling your being with the inner peace of the Holy Spirit. This will be so good for you.

            Thank you for sharing.

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