Some characters appear conceited and confident, but it’s all an act. Underneath it all, they know they’re a fraud. They desperately want to be looked up to and admired. So, they put on a good show. That’s the way it is with the more “vulnerable” (or “neurotic”) type of narcissist. They make themselves feel important by acting important.
Grandiose narcissists don’t just act important. And they more than feel important. Rather, such folks sincerely believe in their greatness. They think of themselves as “special.” And they see themselves as superior to others. So, they feel “entitled” to do as they please.
License to Use and Abuse
Because they believe in their own greatness and discount the value of others, grandiose narcissists tend to use and abuse in relationships. They way they see it, you’re lucky to be in their lives anyway. Perhaps that’s because they have a lot of money. Or maybe they have power, social position, or fame. But sometimes, they don’t have any of these things and still believe in their greatness. You see, grandiosity is more a matter of mentality than it is reality.
Because you don’t really have value to them, grandiose narcissists will wantonly exploit you. I know one grandiose narcissist who stayed with his relationship partner until he’d finished using her parent’s money to complete his graduate training. Then, instead of merely ditching her, he started playing around. His career wasn’t set just yet. And he still valued the financial security her family represented. But she finally found him out, he’d gotten much more secure. So, he calmly suggested if she didn’t like things she could simply take a hike. He didn’t really care. He’d already taken all he’d wanted from her anyway. On the other hand, she had to walk away from a considerable investment. She’d invested her time, her money, and plenty of emotional support. And all she had to show for all that investment was a broken heart and an empty bank account.
The “Heart” of the Problem
Grandiose narcissists use and abuse so wantonly because they have little heart. They lack empathy. And they have little shame. And the more lacking they are in these things, the more easily they exploit. Their shamelessness and heartlessness reflects the malignancy of their narcissism. And in that malignancy, they feel no remorse for the pain they cause others. (See also: Shame, Guilt, Regret, Remorse, and Contrition). I’ll have more to say on this next week.
Tidbits
Due to technical problems just before airtime, last Sunday’s Character Matters was a rebroadcast. This caused some confusion for folks trying to call in. But the program should air live this coming Sunday at 7 pm EDT. So, call in at (501) 258-8326 to join the conversation.
As always, thanks for recommending my books, this blog, and its many articles and helpful commentaries to others.
Dr Simon
YOU REALLY DO HAVE A WAY WITH WORDS. WOW !
You see, grandiosity is more a matter of mentality than it is reality.
invested time, money, and plenty of emotional support. And that all they had to show for all that investment was a broken heart and an empty bank account.
I know how she feels.
Joey
This article describes the husband perfectly. And I’ve changed knowing how I’ve been swindled.
Also describes my ex!
“So, he calmly suggested if she didn’t like things she could simply take a hike”.
After 30 years of not sharing the marital bed my husband calmly told me to have an affair if I wanted intimacy.
Jean,
It was okay with him because you still served other purposes for him, as did I. I know how it feels to be used as well.
No empathy, a cold heart, lack of soul. Good riddens! Now you have room in your life for a truly good, kind-hearted companion.
It is their COMPLETE lack of concern. It really does take your breath away. My mothers coldness and cruel attitude towards me. It really did do me in. You Do Not Matter.
Druzzayne Rika
Sceptical:-
I doubt each one’s intention
This is a selfish world
The goodness last for seconds
No one is here with a clean conscience
Who knows whats hiding behind a smile
Everyone out are there to end their own thirst
For their benefits , not afraid to show their worst
No stranger are your friends ,
they’ll go away to find the next trend
leave you alone to stand
Don’t not doubt
the things you don’t know about
There’s no shame to be sceptical
It is better than being gullible
Joey
“Gullible” is in my past and yours as well sure.
It’s so difficult to brush under the rug family members who have these traits. It’s difficult to say goodbye and not return. But I’m proof that I can be done. Jean is proof, Eidoxia, BOTV, LisaO, we’ve all done it
Yes. We have done it – are still doing it – because we realized we deserve to be treated better.
It hasn’t been easy and I’m sure all of us wanted a different path. All of us beat our head against the wall trying to understand what was “wrong” and tried to fix it. When we realized it was unfixable – then we did the hard thing. We turned away.
For the DC’s in your life !
There’s no shame to be sceptical
It is better than being gullible
What about the ones that act grandiose when they are with you but humble when they are in public?
It’s the mask. They hide behind it.
Once my husband realized I saw behind his mask he didn’t want me around anymore.
Their mask is all they have.
For me this trait shows the preditory side of them. There is something to hide. They are after what they want. They play to the face they see. Some what like blackjack. The dealer plays you. It is also the genuine character. Anything other than this face is a TOTAL LIE.
Thank you Joey and Jean… this is validation for me.. I thought so but wanted to be sure
Sarah – what a strange bird the frog are. The CD has many masks. There is a grandoise one around here that tried to turn my life upside down and others for that matter. She was a predatory CD. However, they have their limits as well believe it or not. This women would only go out and be outrageously flamboyant and over the top by lavishly lording it all over her flying monkeys but only when she had “her followers” around. However, when she had no core team of slaves around her and she was alone or with her son she would sit in a corner and not say boo to anyone. She would always sit in corners – what does this say? She would never join the rest of the people or respective groups of people. NEVER. They are a different story it seems when they have a team of evil doers around them then insipid mice when they are alone. At any rate she can’t keep her team of willing dupes around for long sooner or later they wake up to her or they hit their use by date and she hits the destruct button.
Good to see you back Joey it’s been a while – hope all is well with you.
This must be the kind who, when someone else is vulnerable and in need of attention, focus and peace (dying or new born) exploits the opportunity to perpetrate aggression and abuse in the home, demand all attention, and never apologise in any way.
Thanks Dr Simon, your articles are so enlightening and valuable to me and everyone who’s been a target of this repulsive way of relating and communicating.
Jess,
The CD who targeted me, did so just after my father died and while I was looking after my mother, who was also dying. Plus, I had a laundry list of other difficulties I was trying to get through. It still blows my mind how kind and caring they come across though — particularly the covert type — until the discard happens.
I am not exaggerating when I say that his actions were so unexpected and shocking they could have had the direst consequences for me. Fortunately, that whole episode was of short duration. Pretty terrible to be saddled with someone who has discarded you, devalued you but stays in the picture for practical reasons.
I feel for people who don’t understand the initial grooming process, and get stuck with this kind of monster for a long long time.
Thanks to Dr. Simon, we have a better understanding of this type now.
LisaO – they are just pure evil assholes. My ex best friend and my daughter upped the ante considerably on me when my mother was dying. The gaslighting started not to mention the constant little digs attempting to make me feel worthless. The constant criticisms, allegations and projections. The way they can just stand there and accuse you of the very behavior they are guilty of with total impunity never ceases to amaze me. They are long out of my life and forever. My mother died last year but thankfully we both found out the truth before that happened. It took me a while to figure out who did what and who the head CD was but I have. I have had no contact with my daughter since the funeral and have no intention of ever seeing her again. My ex best friend of 40 years is toast. CD daughter has since gone to work on her brother, my son, and has tried to cause problems in his relationship with his partner and rock the boat there. She failed. Now they have banished her from their lives as well.
I know a narcissist who know that their behavior is socially unacceptable so as cover she pretends to be gracious and appreciative of others. Yet she uses that sweet talk and compliments to manipulate others to do stuff for her and to help her achieve her agenda. Her agenda is often something that seems like a social good, like some sort of a community event. Yet she insists on total control over the event. If successful she basks in the glory, but hands out compliments to others for their part (in doing what she wanted) so she looks good. But she has endless events and after a while tires others out with helping her “do good”. At the heart of it all is her need to be important and she cleverly enlists others because after all she is selflessly doing such great things for the community. If you compliment her on any of it she says “oh it was everyone”. Because she wears out people with her endless events and eventually crosses people because of her controlling all aspects she runs people off in the end and needs to recruit fresh blood. This is just one of her controlling behaviors, but a very tiresome one. Not as bad as some but still destructive to relationships.
It took years but I realized that, for me at least, cutting such people out of my life is easier than trying to counter them. If I don’t need them in my life then I need them out of my life. Harder tho is expelling them from my brain. Remembrance of being used and anger about it is hard to let go, but I know that once I have gotten them out of my life I need to expel them from my thoughts as well.
I had–past tense, a friend a bit like that a few years ago, Kacey. She didn’t task me with anything but was a going concern, had a strong desire to be the ‘heart and soul’ of her community. She worked her husband like a mule and treated him poorly, particularly in front of others. This is something I can’t stomach. I don’t mind couples who bicker — but I abhor people who run their mates down, embarrass them in front of others.
She could be ‘nice’ but was so jealous, bitter and mean spirited it came through. I eventually tore a strip off her and went no contact. What she did to me was unfathomably cruel and without apparent reason.
I somehow failed as narcissistic supply, for the wannabe socialite, I’m guessing, so she discarded me, but didn’t end the friendship because she found my husband useful.
My mother was like this.
As long as you are reflective and obiedent. She could be affectionate. Behind closed door she was controlling and abusive.
Dr Malkin says that they are addicted to feeling special. My mother was a gift giver. Always giving something physical. BUT never praise and remorse. Never Greatful Wrong or sorry.
Just a random thought (these memories go thru my head sometimes and I am now able to see them more objectively).
A few years ago my grandmother died. I was very emotional at the funeral and had been at her side when she passed away.
I was standing with a group of people talking at visitation and my ex came up behind me and said to the whole group in a soft voice – but loud enough for everyone to hear: “I see dead people” (you know, from the movie Sixth Sense).
I was mortified and embarrassed. I couldn’t understand the coldness or why he would say something like that when my sweet grandmother was laying just a few feet away.
But now looking back at it I see he has the emotions of a child. This is something a child would say because they can’t deal with emotions.
Jean – they are the emotions of a child. These people were emotionally stunted anywhere between 4 – 7. While they grow intellectually and physically, the don’t grow emotionally. If you go back and review things I’m sure you will find many times where he demonstrated childlike behaviors. A friend of mine refers to it as the Bum Doodle Mentality. Children in that age group laugh at things like words such as bum and doodle (willy) etc. Their knee jerk reactions are not unlike how a 7 year old or under would react. The things they say are childish, they make childish allegations, statements. How many times did he threaten to run away from home?
I am beginning to see we are at a tipping point in time. These wolves in sheep’s clothing are finally being discovered in multitudes. It’s not just for us the people in our own lives and interpersonal relationships, but the same can be said on the geopolitical level. The corruption and lies are being revealed like never before. Someone has switched on the faucet and it’s not being turned off. Apocalypse in Greek means to reveal or the revealing. That sure is what is happening. What I am seeing over here with regard to geopolitics is a shizophrenic main stream media. One day it’s this, the next day it’s that makes one wonder what parallel universe they are from.
From all our suffering comes a saving grace. Call it what you will. Call it the grace of God or Holy Spirit or Ascended Christ energy. What happens is that after time the faucet opens and we get a major download it comes through understanding. We have been given knowledge, which is transmuted into wisdom this has delivered us from evil – literally. Not only has it delivered us from evil but has allowed us to grow into more compassionate, loving and caring human beings. It allows us the ability to see our own kind. Our kindred brothers and sisters. It allows us to recognise the ones who are not. It has given us a spiritual shield to fend off these predators as we now recognise the true face of evil. I find myself now as a matter of course totally disarming manipulators and those who would set out to do me harm. I give them no energy, I cut off their siphons and prevent their food intake as in energetic food that is my life force. They will get none of that. I will turn my back on them and walk away with dignity, self respect and integrity in tact. I will not touch the unclean things.
If anybody hasn’t watched Smakintosh Touch Not the Unclean Things – I strongly recommend you do regardless of your spiritual or religious beliefs. The wisdom contained in this presentation is powerful beyond words.
Jean
“I see dead people,” –a jocular remark at a funeral! Omg. It reminds me of just a week after my husband died a couple of male neighbors were walking by my house while I was gardening. We began to talk and I told them about my husband. Later on, in the conversation, the one neighbour was talking about all the work he’d been doing around his place. The other guy turns to him, LAUGHING, and says, “well, you’re the one who SHOULD have died, you’re working so hard.”
I barely knew this man but had previously figured he was a narcissist. Had some red flags.
Some people would say he was socially retarded but no, this kind of joking around just after you have learned about the death of a loved one goes beyond social stupidity. It shows am obvious inability to empathize.
Eudoxia, when did your daughter start to manifest CD traits? You must have been heartbroken by her. Very sad
LisaO – about 10 years or so ago when she was in her late 20’s. She became ever more selfish and self centered. Everything started to become about her. Then she started upping the ante with the judgement and constant condemnation of just about everybody else in her life except her. She started the chew through friends always blaming them of course. Now she’s in her late 30’s it has solidified. She is a walking pile of menace and malice and I will have nothing more to do with her.
What hurt me the most was the utter and total betrayal of not just me but my mother and her own brother. She betrayed all of us. I’m just glad Mum died knowing the truth and knowing what she was. Mum even said to me before she died “do not trust x” What she did was a smear campaign against me. She tried to keep me in a situation which was intolerable and one I was determined to leave and was leaving. She invented stories, interfered, lied and caused a good deal of harm. I am quite convinced now that Mum died prematurely not perhaps by all that much but due to a lie, both Mum and I made incorrect choices. Both my own sister and my best friend were part of that lie. When I left the house Mum gave up the will to live. I felt betrayed by Mum. Mum felt abondoned by me and the lie was – Mum was told by my daughter and the others that I was sick of her and didn’t want her anymore. They all had their own agendas for this, none of which was in the best interests of either my mother or me. The truth did come out though before Mum died, so we both know what happened. This is why forgiveness is not possible. I will neither forgive nor forget such cold blooded treachery and it didn’t stop there either. But it has stopped now and will not enter again.
Eudoxia, I watched a show about a female serial killer, in England a few days ago. When interviewed, her parents claimed she was a normal sweet little kid until she hit her mid teens and then became crazy rebellious , started living like a sleaze bag, etc…it was astonishing to me that a person’s personality could change to that degree.
I almost wondered if she sustained brain damage somehow, she became so radically different.
I am sorry you have had such a hard time. Betrayal by a daughter must hurt very badly.
Eudoxia, I need to reply to this. I had tears in my eyes because I felt the exact betrayal of a brother like you have from your daughter. I think it would be so much worse from a daughter or a son.
You said “I will neither forgive nor forget such cold blooded treachery and it didn’t stop there either.” This is precisely how I feel.
Both of my parents described their son, my CD brother as “sick in the head” but they died never understanding what he was.
I was with my father daily, and about a week before he died the CD brother made a very rare appearance, timing it so I wouldn’t be there. My father made mention of it the next day and I said “so what did he have to say” keeping in mind he hadn’t shown himself for at least 3 months. My father who was a very quiet man asked pointedly “about you?” and right away I had a defensive knee jerk reaction and said “I don’t care what he has to say about me dad, frankly I wish he’d drop dead. He treats people like shit then wonders why no one wants to have anything to do with him”. My father didn’t say another word on the subject but he nodded his head in a way of agreement.
In my father’s belongings I found a letter from the CD brother (as a Christmas gift) about how wonderful my dad had been throughout his life and the great memories and how thankful he was to have had two brothers he considers heroes. My CD brother often treated our father terribly.
There was not one mention of me. I was the caregiver of both parents for 10.5 years and he did not say one thing about me. Upon receiving that letter many months prior to his death my father refused to let me read it. I often wonder what he had to say to my father during his last visit about me. I wish I didn’t wonder.
SYdNeY,
Let your mind at be peace. 🙂
In my opinion, it will be very safe bet to state following:
– Your brother slung bit of mud at you, telling your father following kind of things: “I so much wanted to be near you O My Great Father, but that SYdNeY is one nasty thing… blah this blah that”
– If you ask your brother today, he will tell you, “I said nothing, but father was complaining so and so about you.”
These nasty beings, like your CD brother, set fire on all the camps whenever they tread through land.
I think you probably feel that your father was bit naive (he did kept that fake letter close to his heart) and did not see through your brother’s deception, he probably believed your brother’s lies a little, and he probably felt bit off by you for few days. Unfortunately he passed soon after.
Assuming that you feel answerable to higher-ideals or God, I think you did good, the best you could in your circumstances, and that is probably all that you could actually control.
Knee-jerk reaction was good enough, and anyways there is no perfect way of dealing with shitbags.
I am finding that hearing other’s stories is very helpful along with reading Dr. Simon’s books. I never thought that these people might be doing some of the things they do quite deliberately as a control mechanism. I just thought they were messed up people with bad behavior. Now going back over many events in my mind I see them in a new light.
The person I described in my first comment also was always “late” in getting ready to go anywhere. I think this wasn’t procrastination, or failure to plan, or letting last minute tasks get away with her, I now think this was so that she was controlling everyone around her, making everyone wait on her like she was the queen. She would often set a timetable for leaving and others would be ready, but then she had important things to do before leaving so everyone else sat around and waited on her.
I think there is a value in understanding this type of behavior. If such people are stopped early in their lives by aware others perhaps they can be “saved” from themselves. If not they persist and it becomes ingrained and automatic. Unfortunately for them being Queen or King doesn’t translate into being loved or respected. They trade power for genuine caring relationships.
I have from time to time stood up to such behavior in ways that surprised me as to how well they worked. But to do so all the time is tiring and for those of us with an overactive guilt complex it doesn’t always work out well. They know how to turn the tables and make us the guilty ones not them. If we can disconnect from such people, why put all that energy into constantly countering and self defending.
My ex was one such person. Getting free from him was worth the cost, but I too easily fell into other similar relationships. At least now I am aware of what is going on and watch out for such people with an eagle eye.
Andy D, thank-you for your reply and yes for the most part I’m at peace.
My parents were very private and quiet people but they weren’t naive, they did say on occasion but only to me and my husband “you don’t ever want to get dickface mad” (dickface is my name for CD not theirs). They most definitely knew something was off with him but couldn’t articulate what it was. One day my husband (i’ll never forget it) asked “ever wonder what that sociopath brother of yours does all day” and I ran to the computer to do research and eventually ended up here. Eureka!
My father never knew I went no contact with dickface and dickface would never have known what my father knew. Dickface would praise me to others just in case I spoke badly of him. My two other brothers have never seen the CD side of him….they were his heroes and he kept his mask glued to his face when he was with them which was rarely. That mask fell with me because he lived with us for one month and he couldn’t keep it together. Dickface does not like women, most especially confident women.
Sydney.
I had a similar experience with my siblings when my father died. None of them came to see him for 10 years. I took care of him till he died. However, the CD siblings showed up for the service and the reading of the will. I asked my father who had helped him and befriended him all these years and my father said the pastor. So the will read all remaining assets would be donated to the church………….
The pastor said all of them said at the same time “—- she did it” Yes. I did make sure the church received all of it. Do I feel good about it, I sure do.
Justice prevailed.
I like that… you have coined another appropriate acronym. DF
Sydney – CDs loath confident women even female CDs. I think the female CD hate them even more. It’s not unlikely that they equate confident women with abusers. They probably feel let down by either a CD mother or b. their mother didn’t protect them enough from abuse by a CD father. Even neurotics can feel threatened by confident women. A lot of people do.
Every family seems to have a CD eh. I had a brother once as well CD also I have not seen him in over 15 years and care not one wit if he’s alive or dead. I have been through hell and back with these guys. NO CONTACT is the only way to go. They are vile and while they can even communicate you are being tainted by them. While I tried to work out my daughter over a period of time I’ve just come to accept she’s the spawn of the devil. I’ve washed my hands of her. Everything she did was text book – every strategy, every phase = everything.
Parents providing they are reasonably well adjusted themselves will know your heart. No amount of vicious slander will get past them. Parents less well adjusted could be manipulated though. The CD is very good at false representation and a master of disguise but usually people who are highly tuned are onto them. My own mother was onto my daughter as well, and it was my parents who raised my daughter. I had her when I was very young, so she had a similar upbringing to me and neither of my parents where abusive. They were fairly well adjusted – neither where pillars of consciousness but they were not cruel, mean or evil. They were simple white collar people trying to do their best in a world gone horribly wrong.
You will have to be patient with your other brothers to try and actually bring them around or warn them could impact on you negatively. I know it’s frustrating and can be quite painful to watch somebody buy the bullshit but there is nothing that can really be done until the CD drops their mask and they are seen. The best you could hope for is triggering him somehow when they are around, but I don’t suggest you do this intentionally. The CD are really their own worst enemies, they live in this dark, twisted world and have no control over anything until one day the mask does drop and you can pretty much count on that.
Eudoxia, thank-you so much for your insight and to you as well BTOV. The posters here have helped me out in some low moments.
I raise my middle finger to Dickface more readily now as he has gone into hiding for almost two years. He doesn’t even have anything to do with his hero brothers. Someone hurt his whittle feewings and he took his mask and went away. He has the emotions of an eight year old.
My eldest brother is married to a very domineering, covertly aggressive CD and I truly cannot be bothered to stay in touch, he lives far away and doesn’t put an effort into this family even when my parents were alive.
The other brother is someone I make a priority to see. As couples we meet once a month and discover new restaurants, laugh about things and keep it light. It really works for us. Dickface is NEVER brought up.
My parents were unbelievably generous, and I was the executrix of their estate. I was so grateful when they made it clear there was to be no service. For me this meant that I could go on without ever seeing Dickface and Bullybi*#tch (SIL) again.
I imagine Dickface has moved onto another victim, even dating possibly (makes me sick to think that), working as little as possible to top up his share of his inheritance and showing is only child who he flies in every 3 months how generous and wonderful he is on the legacy of his parents. Dickface = parasite.
Sydney – BTOV has been through the mill we all have here. This is why we come here to engage either other, support each other and share our stories. It’s like a home away from home for me. It’s not uncanny or weird that you will have one or more in any social or family group it seems to be the norm these days – shark fest. I think they are bloody everywhere! I reckon the percentages are rising on a daily basis and trust me when I say I’d much prefer it if they were lowering.
I found this little gem when I was having my first coffee. I don’t know who this guy is but he’s spot on about the head thing. “McNarcs do something funky with their heads” I like the term McNarc it’s somehow disempowering – I mean after all what is in a McDonalds nothing that’s any good – shit sandwich, full of toxic crap, not one shred of nutrition and never good for you.
I’ve had both bobbers and lungers – I noticed it with 2 a bobber and a lunger but if we look back to the McNarcs WOW. It never ceases to amaze me how in your face these traits are yet I’ve still missed them at times. LOL – classic!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqyOjW85Sbo
Sydney, Eudox,
I have watched the above you tubes in fact almost all of them. Heed what they tell you. They have lived it and and most are presenting truthful knowledge. There are a few I question though. Stick with your gut feelings. I wasted so many years of my like living a lie with these sick DF. It is indeed a sick world and so many of them out there.
One of my Sis’s is like a feral cat, she literally attacked me in the hospital. I screamed for help and demanded a police report be made. It ended up I was able to get a restraining order against her. I think in my family of 8 children only 2 of us are not CD. We may have issues, but not the dark seeded identity issues the have. I find the world is full of them.
This is a home away from home and it is always wonderful to hear that someone has gotten out of their clutches. I am happy for you Jean and it is a hard road to travel, but nonetheless, you have taken back yourself.
It is always best to go NC with these ones, it keeps you safe and out of the loop.
BTOV, have you any idea why only you and a sib are not CD’s in your family. Out of 3 kids, I am the only one in my family. What makes the difference? Genetics? Something different in our upbringing than that of our sibs. I have felt for a long time that I was different from a very early age. While it is hard being a person so susceptible to being used by CD’s I would rather that than to be a CD. All three of us totally disconnected from my mother who was CD, yet two out of three turned out to have their own versions of the disorder. My sis keeps trying to troll me back in…no way.
Kacey,
I think I do have an idea, I don’t have time to post it now. Will you stay checking the blog. I will try to address this tonight or tomorrow.
Yes. Will check in to see your thoughts on the matter.
Kacey and everybody – very good question. Similar here and quite a few others here as well. I’ve got a sister and daughter CD not sure about sister’s son, has shown traits but I don’t know him well enough, not remotely. My son and I are not. Neither of my parents were. My sister and I had the same upbringing and my parents raised my daughter. My father’s son from a pre marital affair was CD – sociopath.
Here’s my current thoughts on this subject and what really dawned on me last night. It’s not genetics or upbringing. It’s neither nature or nurture. I think people with empathy and intuition have a soul and are animated by God or the God source, ones without are animated by something but not the same source. In fact it’s a downright bloody evil source.
Go back and ask yourself this. Of all the CD’s you know, how many where you able to detect had either empathy or intuition? We know that answer already. But they appear to intuit things right? CD’s don’t have empathy and of the ones I know don’t have intuition either, at least not in the sense I understand it. They have instinct though; but raw and primal as in not the same as far as I can discern, intuition and instinct are not the same. CDs when not on high alert (in predatory mode which is most of the time) they are like automatons – cardboard cut outs when it comes to emotions or anything outside of their realm of existing. They appear to go by books and things they’ve learned or rules and laws and what is known or taught? But try talking to them about the unknown or not known for sure and they will reject everything outright that does not sit within their known parameter and can become quite hostile and defensive if you breach this area. Seriously my ex CD friend if I ever even started to talk about the paranormal/hauntings whatever she would have a hissy fit and storm out of the room. I’ve met others like her too. Have you ever been able to engage a CD (regardless of background) in discussions about spiritual topics or for that matter any topics that fall outside of the range of the 5 senses? Say life after death, the supernatural, paranormal or whatever?? Some will be receptive to a degree (but not like an engaging person) some won’t but the ones who are don’t have much to say on the topic – at all! Any input from them will be rudamentary or superficial if anything then they shut down and go to word salad.
This is what I’m starting to get – intuition doesn’t come from the brain at all, it’s a conduit that connects us to source. The cut outs don’t have it whether they are Pygmies, Christians or Scientists. No offense intended to any of these groups but say some Christians I know are very different, some are open minded others are not – some have intuition and empathy and some don’t. Some are nasty some are amazing. Look at the Mafia most of them were staunch Roman Catholics. Some Budhists self emmolate WTF is with that? It goes against every core teaching of the Budhist tradition. My point is there is something inherently wrong with some people and it doesn’t matter what background they are from or what their specific beliefs are.
Belief or non belief is neither here nor there. Just because you don’t believe something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Take science for example just because you can’t prove it doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t there and just because you can’t measure it or weight it doesn’t make it any less real or non existent.
There is something very wrong with not just these odd people but this entire planet and I’ve felt it all my life. It’s like we are all in a reality show not all that dissimilar to the Truman Show. It’s pretty clear to me there are in fact two very different races of humans on this planet – we might look the same and have the same biology. But we are very different and one feeds off the other one.
A long time ago on Sesame Street there was this strange song that went something like this. “Can you guess which one’s not like the other ones, can you see they all look the same, but there is one that’s not like the other ones, one of these things doesn’t belong” Freaky.
So going back to your question of why are some of our family members CD when we have the same upbringing and others are not? A million dollar question that is so I’ll defer back to Sesame Street! Think about it. On a strictly 3rd dimensional level (and science sits here too) there are some things that can’t be explained nor make sense by 3rd dimensional reasonings, standards, rules or beliefs. Take quantum physics for example – that will keep them busy for centuries. The sub atomic level doesn’t conform to the conventional rules of physics. Quantum particles behave in an unpredictable manner by 3rd dimensional standards anyway. A quantum particle can be in two places at once, it can be both here and over there at the same time. Truly ubiquitous they are. Food for thought anyway.
It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble.
It’s what you know for certain that just ain’t so.
……………………Mark Twain
Kacey & others,
I guess it is a childhood belief that gets reinforced over the life. One simply learned a wrong thing early on and then reinforced and followed it to death.
The trigger could be internal: genetics as received from parents, or pre-disposed behavioural tendencies based in in-born temperament.
Or, trigger could be external: general home environment, or some trauma.
As that child grows, he/she simply fails to assimilate other counter-balancing perspectives. Again this repeated failure to learn could be internal (genetics/temperament) or external (general environment at home/school/neighbourhood). Over a period the unstated belief (usually simply selfishness: me, myself, and I) solidifies, and we have a person that lacks empathy and always thinks of himself/herself as first before any social good or others well being. And, of course that person will never verbalize his belief, maybe he/she cannot even if there was desire to verbalize.
Aggressiveness is another important dimension. A non-aggressive (neutral or passive) kind will be a traditional narcissist. One simply cannot relate to that kind. It will be like getting married to a rock (not the stoic type, but a blackhole kind). That person dedicated his/her life to simply suck other to grow self, otherwise wither away while staring at his/her spell-binding reflection in water. A aggressive kind is more common and they create havoc in life of others, usually the closest relatives (child, parent, sibling, cousin, aunt/uncle). When facing aggressive kind, one simply has two choices: easy one is to bug out (No Contact), or tough one is to take on a project (very likely a doomed project).
Andy good thoughts. I suppose we often forget that each child receives a different set of genes from the parent. So siblings can have quite different genetic components. And although raised in the same home by the same parents, not all kids are treated the same. Parents react to the different personalities of their kids differently. Birth order affects kids, sibs and parents as does gender. And circumstances change, one child being born when the family is financially insecure another when they are more secure, one born when parents alcoholism is in its early stages, another later. In my case I suppose I benefited by being the last born. My parents were actually less involved in my upbringing and I was more free to hide in my room with my books. With a CD mother, being left to raise yourself is a bonus I guess.
My sibs perceived me as being the favorite. It took me a long time to realize that wasn’t totally true. Even as a child however I tried to stop my mother from treating my sister and I differently. I wanted my sister to like me. Yet my sister never stopped holding that over me in her attempts to control me as if my mother’s actions were my fault and I owed it to her to make up for that. Just now it dawns on my that perhaps that different treatment was a tactic of my mother to divide us.
Kacey,
Agree. Even twins within a single family may not get absolute equivalent gene/temperament and environment.
Maybe your mother was simply a destroyer of anything living that comes in the way. By the time you were born, maybe she had had her fill. So, you simply were spared more often, and that gives the appearance of favoritism when in reality it is more like a minor case of neglect.
Yep. With a CD mother, being left to raise yourself in a shelter with food is a bonus. Your siblings thought you were favorite, but reading your post, I think you simply slipped under the radar which was busy actively tracking other pre-existing targets. 🙂
I wish I would have found this site a long time ago! I stayed up all night reading, WOW!
BTOV there are quite a few I question too. I’ve got a friend going through the mill right now with her CD family – 3 in total mother, daughter, sister. New figures I’ve seen according to Jackson McKenzie are 1 – 7 is a psychopath. Have not read the book but think I’ll order it. Not sure if he’s talking strictly psychopath or the entire spectrum – be interesting.
Still waiting on my copies of M Scott Peck ordered it through Fishpond seems it ships from the UK though. Oh well free shipping LOL.
Andy D. That is true in part with my mother. She was increasingly taking all sorts of pills and slept s lot. My last year in HS my dad had left. With my sibs in college I started managing my mother for the least friction and the most alone time. When my sibs came home on break I couldn’t manage that many and all hell broke lose.
I escaped into marriage with a much craftier unadjusted CD. Escaped that and shared a rental with a CD. Finally met a non CD and we are happily married except that he is not willing to totally disconnect from th CD,s in his family as I did with mine.
THe CDs of the world have an eagle eye for those they can use and abuse. WE need to become as good at detecting them as they are of us. The
I absolutely adore “In Sheep’s Clothing”. I am no longer in pain from the pain that I experienced from the narcissist that was in my life. I have learned to accept that they are who they are and a leopard doesn’t change it’s spots.
Your book was so incredibly helpful and has given me so much understanding.
Thank you!
My sense of psychopathy is they are people who are profoundly aggressive (not necessarily angry. It’s different) at base level. That aggression seems to feed an over the top need to win. They have to be in the dominant position, always. As far as intuition goes, it’s hard to say where they’re at. The thing that targeted me seemed to work on mental maps of individuals, based on reoccurring patterns of behavior. He was very disturbed by anything random. Didn’t like surprises.
I think we, as normal people, assume they are acting out of anger, which isn’t necessarily the case unless you get in their way. They are operating out of callous disregard and a desire to get the upper hand. It’s not, technically speaking, either anger or hatred.
yes Lisa, maybe they have no emotional connection to themselves (thus others) whatsoever, and those of us who do are just objects to manipulate, exploit, abuse and control….and punish if we don’t go along with it.
Until their lying and manipulation bullshit becomes visible that is…and you know why intuition spoke to you about them.
LisaO – well said. I think what you are talking about is predation. They are very focused on their prey at all times and this was what I was alluding to with instinct vs intuition. This is why I am beginning to think intuition is not of the brain.
When I was a kid I liked animal documentaries and watched literally hundreds of them. If you watch an animal in the wild, say a lion stalk then hunt its prey it keeps it’s eyes on the prize at all times, it’s prey is all over the place it can swerve and change direction very quickly. So too does the lion but it re-aligns very quickly and continues. If something suddenly jumps into the path or to the side of the lion, it can still re-adjust and re-focus and get right back to it – it doesn’t fluster easily. It can recover quite quickly. A lion doesn’t have a neocortex to complicate things so it can pretty well re-adjust immediately (it doesn’t need to think about it, it just does). So too with most people if they are interrupted doing anything – they may get a surprise but not be stunned or “thrown out” by it because they are focused UNLESS they overthink it and sabotage themselves then they can become quite flustered.
Not so with say crocodiles. Watch them – different style altogether. They are extremely focused almost hypnotised by their prey (same with snakes). Any movement outside of their set course seriously impedes them and can throw them off the scent (sorry wrong word) altogether. They don’t appear to have the same ability to recover their trajectory – they can lose track altogether and their prey can get away. Snakes and crocs have one brain – R Complex. No spatial memory.
I think it has a lot to do with spatial memory. Spatial memory is controlled by the hippocampus which is part of the limbic system lions and other mammals have a limbic system. A psychopath is always preying/focused on something; an object, a desire, a plan everything is prey to them. Crocs and snakes don’t have a limbic system – therefore they have no spatial memory and I will challenge any zoologist or neuroscientist to challenge me on that score. Psychopaths do but it’s malfunctioned and/or atrophied. Unlike crocs and snakes psychs have a neocortex. They are basically just a smart, strategic snake that looks human and can talk. But they too appear to lack spatial memory or it’s severely impeded or compromised. So NO they would not like surprises.
CDs (depending on level of impairment to the limbic system) and I am noticing this BIG TIME in the one I look after. He has serious issues with problem solving can’t do it (panicks/gets flustered). Being surprised bothers him and if he’s in the middle of performing a task any unexpected thing can result in a complete loss of orientation and focus. It seems to cause a blip in their orientation and throws them off guard causing them to react or just stall like there’s nothing there. At the extreme some will explode in a fit of rage or angry outburst. Others will appear to be just extremely disorientated and disturbed, their equilibrium will be clearly upset and it’s like they have to go back to the drawing board. If you happen to notice this, they will notice you noticing. That’s instinct not intuition – I figure it’s because they are aware you have spotted a flaw or deficiency in them – oops. A lion won’t do that, it just re-aligns itself, it neither panicks or gets flustered. A psychopath and all CDs have all three areas of the brain but only use the R Complex and the Neocortex, the limbic system is atrophied (she don’t work properly). A normal humans does. It’s another reason they repeatedly do wrong. The hippocampus is also responsible for memory recall etc. Their mechanism for consequences – if you do this you get that doesn’t appear to function at all or in the very least be extensively impaired. Dinosaur brains would have made an interesting study that’s for sure as some studies have indicated some cared for their young – that requires a limbic system. T Rex big and dangerous, psychopath not as big but twice as dangerous. They should be extinct too.
Eudoxia,
That is very interesting! Thanks. How did you find out about all of that, or figure it out?
Hi Lisa – how did I know all that LOL well it took me a long time. First from watching wildlife documentaries as a child. I was extremely inquisitive. I preferred nature to TV and dolls and other things. I also studied psychology later in life and there is a neurology component in that. The Enneagram is another type of psychology in and of itself which when I found that I threw the psychology books over my shoulder. It’s based on the scrambling of the centers in man – moving instinct (RComplex), paleomammalian (emotional brain), and mammalian (neocortex). It’s the three brain or Triune Brain Theory physiologically speaking. But all of those brains have very specific duties. Neurology states it’s one brain with different section. The Triune Brain states it’s 3 different brains that are interlinked with the other 2.
With regard to evolution reptiles developed with a brain stem or R Complex only the reptilian brain (no I don’t believe in shape shifting reptilians! LOL) I don’t care if God created this or they evolved like this that’s what they’ve got. This is basic instinct, the brain tells them when to sleep, hunt, eat, have sex etc. These creatures have no need to care for their young they lay eggs – they hatch and their young are self sufficient from the get go. Then came the birds and other mammals, they developed another layer of brain called the paleomammalian brain (limbic system). This enables them to nest, raise and care for their young and teach them the life skills they needs to survive by imprinting. I witnessed this first hand from hand rearing parrots. If they are not taught to fly by their parents – they are unable to fly properly as in navigate, land where they like etc. They fly chaotically, they are like a ship without a rudder. They must fledge properly so they have the correct imprinting. Primates consisting of man and monkeys/apes etc developed a neocortex – this is the strategic brain the thinking brain. Dolphins and whales also have a neocortex and their brains are seriously fascinating. Having had to wait for well over an hour one day at the doctors I was reading National Geographic, they had a big spread on the cestacean brain. I was impressed with their brains let me tell you! It’s more complex than ours! Difference they don’t go round murdering each other. Even Orcas kill to survive.
I suppose why the Enneagram struck so much was because I could already see all this by observing wildlife docos when I was a kid. I’ve been pretty well at this study for a long time now. Having unfortunate encounters with several CDs I really had to find out what not just what made them tick but what everyone tick. I did not know at the time they were CD though. I found this out during the course of my studies and having to endure a never ending barrage of these assholes. Put it this way Lisa – I had a huge awakening about 18 years ago. I saw with stark clarity so powerful it dropped me to my knees – how all our personalities control us to the point of being total automatons up until the time we realise it and take measures to live authentically. So I embarked on a quest to discover the mystery of man. I didn’t realise at the time it would be a life time commitment but things just keep getting pushed my way for me to deal with and they still do today that’s for sure! Just when you think you are out the other side something comes along to remind me I’m not quite there yet. Every time I think I might go party for a bit I get belted out of that court! LOL
According to some spiritual traditions we either come here to party or we come here to learn. Obviously I came here to learn despite wanting to party at times I am very passionate about learning. I also had the benefit of commuting for 20 years or so on the train to work and back everyday for nearly 2 hours a day – that’s a lot of library time and I did a lot of reading none of it fiction.
Eodoxia, I’m reading this whole thread just now, in awe of your knowledge of these situations (I’m sorry about that, unfortunate awfulness) & your being able to describe/communicate about your experiences so well….
I feel as if a friend is explaining it all, firsthand.
It helps me comprehend it all even more.
Thank you for sharing.
Christina, thank you, I’m glad you find comfort here. It is for that reason myself and others are here. It is an amazing place you have found yourself in, but I will defer and bow humbly to my fellow travelers on this blog because without them I would have been mush. I hope you find this place as comforting and warm as I have found.
May I ask if you have you just discovered you are in a relationship with a CD and trying to make sense of it?
Eudoxia, you are just kind of a wonder! What an active mind. Wow.
I have to be honest with you. I am here to learn AND party as much as I can. I did nothing but read for the first 54 years of my life and I am making up for lost time now! Eeeeeee….haaahhhhh!
haha I missed this one Lisa! It’s called leading a productive life. People particularly in the last 15 years or so started to find me boring. I started to find them boring because all their knowledge consisted of was trivial crap and meaningless drivel and we ran out of things to talk about LOL.
Hey Lisa – I still party but I just do so with select people who have similar interests to me, who are caring and sharing, socially responsible people and awakened empaths which as we both know CD are not. The joke is now on them, they failed to subjugate me, they failed to dominate me, they failed to suck my soul out of me, they failed to extinguish my light. They might have temporarily succeeded in ripping me off and destroying my stuff but it just makes them all the more twisted, sick and inhuman, dark human stains. What they really only succeeded in was making me a whole lot stronger because my resolve strengthened. Particularly as I have a predilection for hitting the books so to speak and having to thoroughly understand shit! So I may have dimmed for a bit but in reality I was perculating. So their malice, lies, gaslighting and envy backfired, they just revealed themselves. Plus I know myself far to well for anybody to destroy who I am much less mess with my reality. Their own arrogance defies them and will probably haunt them until they day they die not because they feel guilt or shame but because they failed. Because they only cheated themselves in the end. In the process I went Supernova. So THEY FAIL! And they failed SPECTACULARLY!
Party hard girl! High five to you!
Exactly ! Perfectly expressed!
My mind set in words. Perfect ..