Challenging Egomaniacal Thinking

Egomaniacal Thinking

“Grandiose” narcissists engage in a lot of egomaniacal thinking. (See also: The Egomaniacal Thinking of the Disturbed Character). We all want to think well of ourselves. But we can unhealthily overrate ourselves and our abilities. Narcissistic individuals don’t just have confidence. They go too far with it. They overestimate their abilities, power, and worth. Some only believe they can be and do anything. Others just know they can. And it’s not that they can’t do some pretty impressive things sometimes. The problem comes with how they exaggerate and their lack humility.

I talk a lot about egomaniacal thinking and how to confront it in my book Character Disturbance. The Judas Syndrome and How Did We End Up Here? also address the issue. Some have characterized the grandiose among us as “legends in their own minds.” And these egomaniacal thinkers mentally filter out anything they don’t want to see or hear. So, confronting their delusions of grandeur effectively takes tact.

The Inflated Ego

We need to have an ego. We can’t function effectively in the world without one. Moreover, some folks’ pathology directly stems from their lack of a solid ego. But you can also have too big an ego. When that happens, the word e-g-o becomes an acronym for “edging God out.” By that, I mean, having no room in your heart or mind for any “higher power.” Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean failing to see a supreme being’s hand in everything. Rather, it means not taking anything else outside of yourself into the equation when you’re assessing your accomplishments.

Egomaniacal thinkers attribute everything they’ve ever achieved solely to themselves and their greatness. They respect no other powers or influences – nothing “higher” than them. So, they can’t truly show gratitude. They may flatter. They may even extol. But they do so for show. They don’t mean it. To acknowledge any higher reality would only make them feel both dependent and indebted. The haughty among us want no part of that.

Confronting Egomaniacal Thinking

Confronting egomaniacal thinking effectively requires:

  • You don’t make it personal. Don’t directly challenges someone’s sense of worth. They’ll only fight back. Address the thinking itself.
  • You keep it objective. State the facts. Draw connecting lines between the grandiose person’s way of thinking and the consequences. Example: “I remember you saying this would be a slam-dunk for you. Now, it seems like things are taking longer than even you said you expected. Do you think you overestimated how easy this would be for you? Is that something you tend to do from time to time?”
  • You confront with genuine care and concern. Narcissists are not easy to like. We naturally want to cut them down to size. And we want them to appreciate the wounds they inflict. But they’ve adopted a way of seeing and doing things (which is what defines personality) they believe works for them. Trying to make them feel bad won’t work. You can confront almost anyone about anything. But you have to make it only about behavior and making things better.

I’ll have more to say about all this in upcoming posts.

Character Matters

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67 thoughts on “Challenging Egomaniacal Thinking

  1. Egomaniacal thinkers attribute everything they’ve ever achieved solely to themselves and their greatness. They respect no other powers or influences – nothing “higher” than them. So, they can’t truly show gratitude. They may flatter. They may even extol. But they do so for show. They don’t mean it. To acknowledge any higher reality would only make them feel both dependent and indebted.

    That is my THE mother to a TEE, BUT she could plan only about 15 minuates ahead. Her diet was that of an infant. Give the shopping required to hold a 4yr old birthday party, apart fro jelly and ice cream and you have got what she ate on a daily basis, apart from when I COOKED OF COURSE. Then she would apear plate in hand, ” OH this looks nice” I’ll have some of this” She was highly dependant and hated being left alone.
    When the grandmother died she was alone for 9mts until I came back from college.
    She stated ” I HATE MY OWN COMPANY” ” I HATE IT ” “I HATE IT”

    1. Joey
      That’s interesting, her hating her own company. Maybe that was a motive to try to make you dependent on her, she. In reality she was dependent on you.
      It’s a such a mind jumble. I think you’ve got got it all sorted out though

      1. Yep you got it. nearly there. Lucy You have some resolution now I hope
        yourself .Things will improve. You will proberly never forget, You will understand more of the process. They are extemely calculating which is not our fault

        1. Egomaniacal thinkers. explains to me quit alot of things. It explains the yawning, it explains the knife at my throat, it explains the violonce, it sort of explains the stamping on gifts i would bring home from school.

          1. Joey,
            Knowing what you have shared here is unconscionable behavior on the part of your family. What is so amazing about you is your resilience and caring. Having been brought up in this atmosphere it is a wonder when any of us come out of it, an empath.

            Egotistical, megalomaniacs and their pathetic power over us is indeed sad and will be the ruin of all of us. When you get one out of the way another pops up, they are all over the place. They are hell bent on destruction and could give a hoot if they go down with the ship as long as they cause destruction.

            I am glad you finally got away, many times even through death, we are not rid of these abominations as we are left to clean up the carnage and destruction left in their wake.

            Without a conscience they pass away smiling about the sadness and torment they caused others and sneer with anger and rage knowing they no longer can create more havoc and destruction. Even the knowledge they procreated and left behind more CDMNSP gives them little pleasure as their vile jealousy would deny their very offspring the right to life.

            Indeed it is like being a unwilling participant in a horror show. You are free now, Joey, except for the memories, try with all your might to exorcise these from you, scraping your bare skin clean of these demons that can well stay attached even after death, haunting and pulling us into the pit of despair.

            Joey, your strength gives me and all of us strength, thank you for sharing, uplifting and giving us all hope that we can indeed overcome.


          2. Joey,

            I think another point about these egomaniac thinkers is they have the audacity to try and many times define our reality, especially that of a child and the naive. To think they have the right of God our Creator to use us as an object of clay to mold into whom and whatever gratifies their sick reality. To think we belong to them as chattel, cattle, a commodity that is brought into this world to serve their purposes and agenda’s.

            First of all you are describing means of Control, one upmanship, power over one.
            The yawning is to let you know they don’t care and you are boring, “now go away pest, you nothing.”

            The knife at your throat, means for many a lot of things. Again, this is a tool of control and a very treacherous one. The CD is telling you they have control over your life and death. To do this the CD indeed could very well have cut your throat.

            The CD mother completely hated, loathed and resented you. The driving force behind this gesture was ultimate jealousy and envy, envy for the gifts you have Joey, the gifts you were never recognized for but the CDN knew you had.

            The violence was the continual envy that raged inside her for she knew deep down she could never possess you. Therefore, what she could not posses she would ultimately destroy.

            The stomping of on gifts that you made for the mother hoping you would get a positive stroke where destroyed hoping to destroy a little more of you. Tears of rejection gave this sick woman supply, she fed off trying to make you as miserable as she was.

            Joey, what ate at her and festered in her hideous carcass was the realization she could never truly own you, she could not destroy you. If it is any consolation she went to her grave knowing she failed in her assaults to destroy you. The mother knew what was in you was ultimately stronger than she was and this is the very thing she coveted more than anything , your strength of goodness and Character.

            These are ugly life lessons my friend, but inside you you carry a wealth of knowledge to help others and make this a better world. Just sharing your story alone, on this site has helped so many see into the family dynamics that elude many of us.

            We are winners and we are stronger than any of these evil ones. Good always prevails evil even when it means the destruction of all. For in the ultimate destruction comes time for rebirth and regrowth and hopefully, we will have learned something from the past.

    2. My ex hated being alone too, he would have surrounded himself with ax murderers if that’s what it took. No wonder they hate their own company.

  2. The great egomaniac SB I was married to would say in the 31 years of arrive I NEVER contributed to the marriage. That’s so ludicrous I’d laugh if I weren’t so angry.

  3. I feel like it relates to the 2-year old in them. The underdeveloped mind.
    I remember thinking, as a teenager, and until I graduated college, that I could do anything, too. It wasn’t until I began trying careers and all kinds of new skills that we learn we aren’t as infallible as we think we are. Alternately, the Narcissists in my life never went to college. They never pursued careers where they would need to learn skills beyond blue-collar ones. This is not to put anyone down at all, in any way; it is only to say that, until a person begins trying new – and difficult things and skills – it is quite easy to feel, like a toddler, that one can “fly”. It is also easy to put down others – since one cannot appreciate what it took to learn what they have, and do things they have striven and persevered to achieve.

  4. You make a very good point here. The process of trying , failing & learning to get back up try again is so important to fostering maturity, gratitude, humility, & perseverance. Those who either never try or are shielded from all negative consequences- have a much harder time absorbing the lessons that life teaches. Unfortunately for them, life will continue to try to teach them the same lessons until they either learn them or die. Many of these people spend much of their lives incarcerated.

    1. My family was the perpetual child. Somewhere to put food in ,somewhere to get rid of it, then go out and play. Mummy is always there for me. Trouble was I was MUMMY. All of them were children, my mother was the youngest, about 4yrs old. She would some times speak in jargon. When infant learns to talk they make sounds like words e.g DARN DEPT DUP ; meaning CA’NT GET UP. She was 72 yrs old at the time. I had an interview the next day that would pay a very good wage, so she sat on the toilet for 2hrs. I had no idea what aggression was then or that I was being manipulated and scapegoated.

      1. Joey
        She wasn’t going allow you to get away from her. I’ll bet you can think of numerous instances where she and the grandma kept you from obtaining freedom.
        How does one overcome the bitterness?
        I know the answer is forgiveness. I hope to achieve hat some day
        When my situation is complete – meaning loose ends tied up – I’m considering being hypnotized to rid the fool from my brain
        Has anyone tried this ? A friend of mine did and she rarely brings up the man’s name, and this is a person who constantly brings up the past

        1. Lucy, I can only speak for myself on overcoming bitterness. When I think back about what the ex CD did I still get angry, it was wrong. I especially get angry because of how it affected my children. I had to forgive myself for getting involved with him, even though I didn’t know better. I just know that if I am to be a person of substance, a person who generates good in the world, I cannot dwell on the past. I did for a long time until I discovered he was a sociopath, then that gave me the answers I was looking for, it took the confusion out of it. What I mean by forgiveness is that I wished him no harm. I wouldn’t have anything to do with him because I knew he was the same person, but I would not let his memory haunt me. I accepted that it happened unfortunately, but that I wanted my life to go forward without the sick twisted influence. I am a Christian so I relied on God to heal me and create in me the person I wanted to be. I don’t know the scripture verse reference, but Paul the Apostle said -forgetting what lies behind and pressing ahead toward the prize for the goal God called him to. I used to feel dirty when I thought of my ex, just because of his nastiness, but I overcame that. When there is fresh injustices as in the case of your ex in court, that opens the wounds. Now that you are free of him you can heal in time. Just be kind to yourself and give yourself time to heal and go forward.

  5. Hi Everybody!

    I missed you! I have been writing posts but they have been vanishing! So am keeping this short!

    Lucy, again…yuuuuge hug. You just lost a ton of ugly fat!

    1. Hi LisaO,

      Well this one came through. I had this happen too. Maybe next time do a copy before sending your reply and if it doesn’t go through, try later. Missed you too, glad to have you back as always.

    2. LisaO
      Thanks. I guess I traded money for years of my life back. But I sure have some adjistments to make

    1. Joey,
      That would be massively confusing not knowing what your mom and grandma were. Not knowing what was normal and what was not as a child. Massively confusing. Thank goodness for people like Dr. Simon who get the information out there. I feel like there should be some massive education programs to make people aware, especially for people who were in your situation as a child, but a child still wouldn’t be able to grasp it. Its so terribly maddening to know there are many out there in your same situation suffering the same terrible abuse. There are no answers unfortunately.

    2. Hi Joey,

      Truthfully, at a point in life I hadn’t a clue either. When one is reared in an abusive dysfunctional family, where does one draw the line as to what abuse is, especially, emotional abuse and to muddy the water even more is covert abuse. As I know something happened, but what is it, befuddled confusion, 1/2 truths, the whole story minus the 1% that decides the fate of life or death.

      Today, we can’t spank our children and to a point even threatened talking in a harsh tone or yelling is abuse. Many times that is what the child needs to get something through to them that could cause them injury or the idea of a spanking keeps the child from running into the road. I do think there are rare occasions where a spanking might be good, otherwise, I do not believe in hitting another person. I am familiar with the 2X4 and have to say the story opened a window I had hoped never to remember. My heart bleeds for a fellow kindred spirit.

      Today on top of yesterdays abuses we are bombarded with another form of abuse, an abuse so insidious one wonders if we can recover. Its the abuse that oozes from the TV and the internet, its called Jerry Springer, the Soap Operas the vehicles of media that is called entertainment. It is used to keep us entertained, it is used for a baby sitter for the children not in school, day care, latch key children and those who are lonely and bored. Children watching everyones mother, father, uncles, aunts and who knows who crawling in and out of bed with anyone. Children watching, wide eyed and left to their innocent minds imaginations soaking up this smut. What does one think these children will learn, they will live and replicate what they see, all this filling their gullible thoughts and forming their personalities.

      Then later in the evening we have family programing, family hour filled with the same thing. Turn the channel, death, murders, killings, muggings, drugs, prostitution, you name it, its there and whose watching, children and their parents. In between the action are the commercials full of telling us what we need to buy, the subliminal messages bombarding our subconscious. Then the news, killings, riots, bombings, wars, death and destruction causing fear and insecurity, numbness and apathy occurring.

      What is this but abuse in the most insidious, malicious, soul sucking form on a scale unsurpassed in recent history on top of the other forms of abuse that are still in use and covered up. So our future generation is lobotomized of the essential good and nurturing they need to become strong, confident, charactered citizens. Voila, the successful making of the CDNMSP.

      In all this I failed to mention our diets, of fast foods, processed foods, genetically modified and filled with chemicals that can kill us. Grown in soils that are deplete of the vary nutrients and minerals we need in order to keep our body healthy and growing. Poisons sprayed on our foods, fillers, preservatives, toxic chemicals sprayed in the air we breath, fluorides in our drinking water. This is outrageous abuse on a mass scale, so we have abuse attacking us on all fronts.

      Yes Joey, now we know and we must pay forward, we were taught the difference and for each and everyone that finally gets it, they must give back or give to, in some shape or form, reach out, speak out, we can go a different way, besides the way our government and the dark forces would have us go into eternal destruction. Scream it from the rooftops and refuse to be a victim no more.

      Joey, as your eyes were open, my eyes, Lucy’s eyes, all who read this blog and get it can do their part and be part of the solution. Believe me I have made my mistakes in continuing in some of the dysfunctional footsteps I was taught, ones I didn’t know were wrong, many I knew were wrong and made sure they didn’t happen again. The point is to take ownership and teach others, refuse to accept the lies that are being forced on us, withstand and fight back.

      Joey, if I may ask, you said you were clueless, did you feel it was wrong, I mean I know you felt bad, sad and hurt, but inside think to yourself, this is wrong?
      Many things I was clueless about too, I couldn’t put a name to it, but in
      my gut it many times screamed and churned. Thank you, for posting and sharing Joey and everyone else.

      All of you give me hope, that together, we can at least try to make a difference by refusing to believe the lies fed to us, refuse to buy the bling crap of this world we don’t need, refuse to watch the smut shows, refuse to watch and listen to the singers who vomit out filth. Do the right thing and speak out, shout it out if need be. Live our lives in decency and respect one another. At least I will live knowing I tried.

      Peace and blessings to all

      1. You really said it BTOV, the media is the major influencer, and I am so disgusted with it as well. I feel the same way. Our children are being brainwashed , devalued and objectified by this narcissistic culture. What a sad state of affairs.

  6. Btov, Thank you so much! I will try to hang around a little bit longer this time. I have more energy to devote to the blog now. And I think now more than ever it’s important for people to read Dr.Simon’s books and come to this blog to acquaint themselves with others who have walked into the buzz saw of disorder.

    I have been attending a very popular online forum for some time now. It’s devoted to esoteric topics — the spirit, soul, religion. Most of the members are lovely people and though our politics don’t align, they don’t have to. There is (or was) a little mutual respect.

    I decided to leave the forum recently. It is no longer possible to attempt to relate to some ardent Trump supporters and if the forum administration is somewhat pro-Trump, they cave in to the loud mouth schnooks.

    The last straw was trying to reason with a woman who was clearly borderline and or highly narcissistic. No back up from the mods and administrators. I called her out on behaviour–excessive ranting, mischaracterizing other members, screaming in caps. And I did it fairly quietly. I know not to get into a screech fest with anyone, let alone someone who is disordered.

    I am going to try and post this and see what happens!

  7. Okay, that worked. So will continue!

    I used to react to this type butnot so much anymore.

    Always maintain a certain amount of composure and dignity and never over react. Don’t give them any ammo. If a social setting becomes infested with character disordered narcissists who have their man in power, just leave. You cannot reason with the disordered.

    That’s my story!

    And Dr. Simon is so correct about Trump and how he has been mishandled by the media. Every time they insult him, it just fuels his opponents.

    Anyway…that’s my story. No CDs in my personal life, just dealing with the steady erosion of general decency in society!

  8. Actually that isn’t the conclusion. I left the forum because the administrator is not cracking down on this behaviour. Lets it go in the interest of ‘free speech.’ Yah huh..that card gets overplayed by CD’s all the time. So I went no contact.

    1. LisaO – what sort of esoteric forum discusses politics? Politics resides in the exoteric realm and what Gurdjieff considers Level A influences and I agree. I can understand how political ponerology could be considered as a result of corruption and discussed as a generality but to single out individual players somewhat muddies the waters given they are all, as a general rule, dirty. There is one thing that is consistent in politics and one thing only – they all LIE.

      I agree with BTOV in so much as no matter what brush they are tarred with it’s all the same tar at the end of the day = MONEY and POWER. What types are attracted to politics specifically plus the other Level A maladies of matrix based consciousness caused by Demiurge corruption? Why organic portals of course – they thrive in that industry. According to Mouravieff’s theory a psychopath is a failed organic portal which makes complete sense to me. Simply because they are a failed human being meaning they are missing vital aspects of being human such as compassion, empathy, joy etc. A dark soul is what I consider an organic portal.

      I’m gnostic and fully understand what they are and agree with Mouravieff’s interpretation, where most people, who are of exoteric orientation wouldn’t. Try talking about those topics in social settings and people look at you like you’ve got two heads. It’s a most interesting topic in fact the “topic of topics” – Castaneda, but it should not be polluted and convoluted by politics.

      On an political level, what is interesting specifically in the US is how it’s all split. Good vs Bad, Black vs White, DemoRat vs Reprobate? In reality, nothing is all good and nothing is all bad when it’s a sliding scale. It’s both and at any time can be anything in between or it can shift depending on just who is bankrolling the decision. Just depends on which candidate’s wolf is being fed at the time or more so, who’s got the beast’s leash. From an outsiders perspective it looks like a game of “may the better mud slinger win”

      Seriously, Charlie Brown would do a better job as President. If I had my way I’d bring in a Council of Elders having wisdom, compassion and self mastery. While we have psychopaths running the show we can only expect more carnage, death and destruction as it is all they are capable of achieving.

  9. LisaO,

    So happy you are going to be back, you add many interesting points to the discussions and the support of all of us, know you are family. You have stated a mouthful here. We may not agree on everything and above all I believe the core posters respect everyones choice to agree or disagree. First and foremost Dr. Simons’s blog, to my understanding, is dedicated to teaching knowledge and giving anyone who comes here the necessary tools to deal with the Character Disordered that reign so heavily in society today.

    I believe this site is devoted to teaching individuals that deal with the CD eye opening awareness and the necessary skills, knowledge and insights on how to deal with these individuals. Dr. Simon also gives us the needed tools to make good choices which many times, ultimately, lead to making life changing decisions, serious changes that will affect our lives forever.

    Dr. Simon , I believe is teaching us the live saving skills to take back our lives and at the same time teaching us how to build inner strength, resolve and foremost how to develop and build strong character within ourselves.

    Above all, I believe this to be to a superior Support Group. This blog maintains dignity and respect for others. When there has been a problem within Dr. Simon has stepped in and taken the appropriate measures to keep us focused and grounded. I believe Dr. Simon also has faith in our core group to stay on topic and follow the Golden Rule, being to treat each others as we would want to be treated.

    LisaO, Dr. Simon wrote the Judas Syndrome for faith based individuals dealing with the CD and in his book does quote scripture. I believe in his book and teachings no one faith or belief was singled out. Faith in whatever our higher power is plays a huge role in dealing with the CD and who we are as an individual, which I believe ultimately boils down to TRUTH and Conscience

    All of Dr. Simons writings are based on truth, experience, knowledge, decency, respect, dignity, goodness and so forth. All that is promoted here is for the good of humanity.

    LisaO, as you know I am a Christian, I am not a religious person and nor do I follow a particular faith. I do delve into the esoteric as I believe many truths have been denied us. This is an area, I too, am interested in and research. Ultimately, our faith and principles are intermingled with the knowledge Dr. Simon teaches on this site.

    We have been together for a long time, you are no stranger here at all, you have contributed immensely to this blog and know this is home, just as I have made a home here along with all the Kindred Spirits who visit and most of all the Kindred who have stayed. I hope I ad libbed in a respective light.


  10. Btov, I am a very moderate Christian now. That is how I identified myself on that forum. There was no problem on that forum with that — and that was a very positive thing.

    Most of the members are exceptional. But it is slowly being taken over by a few people who do nothing but shout hard right political slogans. That’s the atmosphere we’re in and it is everywhere!

    I just wandered on to Reddit and was appalled at the level of discourse, too, for different reasons. So much snide sneering. Such social decay…everywhere. The only way to fight it is with calm and a certain level of detached compassion or not at all.

    I am changing my life around so I spend less time online, (except for here!) because, more and more, I am seeing that there are so few shelters from the storm, socially.

  11. Oh…and big hugs right back at you! I so hope your life is going okay and that your pain level is under control!

  12. LisaO,

    Stick close to your faith and trust your gut. We are in an Orwellian world. Both sides are playing us, they have for a long time. We as a people or group need to open our eyes to what is really going on. I don’t think it is by accident our society has gone down the toilet. I have been down many rabbit holes whose tunnels are unending and all I know it is one hell of a journey and an Awakening.

    You are right, there are few shelters from the storm. I hope you find refuge here, you have been here for a long time and have seen many things transpire here too. I think you and I go back for sometime now and I know Dr. Simon is very astute an on top of his blog and when the trouble makers and trolls sneak in “he knows” and hopefully we do to. We or I should say I want to deal only in truth as I think most of us on this blog want to deal only in truth. Truth is painful, but necessary in order to grow and face the ultimate truth that our world is not what is portrayed to be.

    LisaO, I think most all politicians are CDN they have to be in order to survive and have the audacity to steal the rights away from the people of this country. To me they are a can of worms, slipping and sliding together, no difference, though they would lead you to think otherwise. Protect your soul, heart and mind, use your eyes to see the world as it really is, not what they would have us believe.

    LisaO, I feel the same about other blogs too, Just know, you are welcome here and I hope you find some peace here, away from the storm that is brewing. I believe we are on the same path just in different places.

    Thank you for asking, yes, I have been somewhat better, I have to say though the same events and how the world is going does drag one down, the key is not to fear and search for truth. The truth is all around us once we open our eyes.

    Blessings and happiness, my friend

  13. Maniacal


    Exhibiting extremely wild or violent behaviour.

    Exhibiting or denoting obsessive enthusiasm.

    Suffering from mania.

  14. Hi again BTOV,

    We live in a pathocracy. It’s political but it is also plain sociological. I blame the entertainment industry for helping to kick it off Ina big way

    Recall the tv show, Andy of Mayberry and how rich in substance, humor and life lessons it was? Remember ‘Opie?’ Now he is a famous director and speaks glowingly of his childhood. And then think back to the late seventies to shows like Different Strokes that started off where Andy of Mayberry left off.

    Instead of being innocent and truly childlike, the kids on the show were different…streetwise, cynical. Started a trend of kids being portrayed as tough and lippy and it got worse and worse.

    In real life, at least two of the child actors on the show died after years of turmoil. The girl commit suicide or died of a drug overdose. The older boy in the show has now stepped forward and claims he was molested in the industry.

    So, what exactly took place in the late seventies? More focus on moral relativism, the individual as primary and the over arching, “look out for number one.” with the promiscuity that goes with it.

    One of the reasons I didn’t have children was because I didn’t want to raise them in what I saw as a society that was improving in some ways but vastly decaying in other ways. There is definitely a lack of shame.

    1. Lisao

      CD to me seems endemic within the human race. You only have to look at history to see that. World war two for starters, then slavery before that. You can only try and change what we have control of, which is ourselves.

    2. “One of the reasons I didn’t have children was because I didn’t want to raise them in what I saw as a society that was improving in some ways but vastly decaying in other ways. There is definitely a lack of shame.”

      I have one daughter who is a wonderful human being, she’s decided not to have children for the reasons you’ve written. It is such a worrisome world and even more so now as people are so disconnected from each other. Young parents strolling with their babies and toddlers never looking up from their phones will of course wonder why their is no communication between them as they grow and leave the nest.

      I’m proud of my daughter at having made her decision with such conviction. We are not the type of parents who have the need to be grandparents so there wasn’t any sense of obligation to us or pressure from her partner. In my time there were so many one child families and now I’m seeing more people not having any children.

      I took care of my own parents for many years and I’m in my fifties now. I noticed when my parents were alive that when we were out in public, the older one gets the more invisible a person seems to become. People bumping into the elderly, taking no notice of their mobility problems and never any eye contact to name a few of the examples. There truly is a lack of shame.

      I visit this site everyday and even though I don’t contribute that often I love reading everyone’s posts. I have gained so much here and I find myself talking to others about it too. Not the CDs of course, I got rid of those soul suckers. Keep posting all of you, I’m listening.

  15. Joey, For sure. But it seems that in recent decades we have declared war…on ourselves. In so many key ways our society is becoming an abomination. When Miley Cyrus is considered role models and young teens surf hard porn online while their parents are at work…and then act it out? It’s horrible. It’s breeding cynicism, nihilism…ugghhh. No wonder there are so many character disordered people! It’s being encouraged!

    1. LisaO,

      Yes, it is being encouraged and so it began in the generation preceding our gerneration an then before our parents and it will get worse before it gets better. Read the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire and so it goes. Regardless, of what history has taught us we repeat our same mistakes.
      The Roman rulers stated : In order to control the masses give them a roof over their heads, food and entertainment. There you have it. Most all of us have a roof over our heads and many homes beyond what are needs are, fast food and super size me, grocery stores full of foods beyond our needs and the smut that oozes from the radio’s, TV, Casino’s, Super Malls, stuff we don’t know what to do with. Then there are the drugs.

      This is the way of the family, no fathers, immorality, latch key kids, dumbed down, depending solely on their IPhone and Google to tell them how to wipe their behinds. Once the family structure is destroyed, we are spiritually bankrupt as in Godless, immoral and self serving this is what we turn into as a society.

      Where do the CD come from? All the above and more, I think deep down inside we all know very well, who, what and why. However, it isn’t politically correct to call anyone out on anything anymore. So we have become, shall I say GMO humans, the Empaths, are food for the CD. The Empaths, the ones who really have character and backbone will be the ones to rebuild, if anything is left after the raging nightmare the CD will bring upon all.

    2. Lisao

      If you read affluenza and the selfish capitalist by Oliver James you will get and idea of what is happing and why. If you take a look at I am fishhead on you tube you will see more of the same. Society is corrupt the top 10 % of the wealthiest people on Earth own 85 % of the worlds wealth

  16. Thanks for all of your WELL thought out responses! Even though we have experienced the worst, interpersonally, with CD personality, we have to retain a vision of what ‘normal,’ is and also what ‘exceptional,’ is.

    And BTOV, you have mentioned the author, Victor Frankyl. He was exceptional. So was Jacques Lusseyran. Same kind of story. He was a blind concentration camp survivor who refused to lose his dignity when all around him were understandably losing theirs.

  17. Joey, I have seen the documentary, I Fishhead and Affluenza. Goes a long way to explain how we ended up where we are.

    And getting back to the subject of Dr.Simon’s article about confronting appalling grandiosity and ego inflation — it makes sense to confront the behaviour even when we feel compelled to cut the egotists down to size because so many people who were born mod seventies and onward don’t know much of anything else.

    If they come from, so called ‘good families’ children of professional parents, they can be just as rudderless, in terms of character as those who are struggling financially.

    Professional parents hover over their kids, over stimulate them with too many activities and focus way too much on ‘the future’ where they will be forced to compete professionally. There is way too much emphasis on status and not enough on the status of their hearts.

    These people always seem to be running running running. No time, no time, no time. And in fact, some are run off their feet with their own work schedules. But a large minority keep themselves on the run, for no apparent reason.

    This is an awful environment for kids to grow up in. And, they know the difference. If Mommy is really actually busy in the true sense, it’s one thing…but often it’s weird neurotic hamster wheel behaviour and they force their kids to get on their own hamster wheels too.

    So yes, confront behaviour with compassion because so many younger people haven’t even lost the yardstick by which we measure what is aberrant — they never had one to begin with.

    If you KNOW or remember what normal is…you’re lucky.

  18. Last evening while watching the movie Blues Brothers a scene reminded me of myself. There was a scene where the building they were in was blown up. Out from a heaping pile of bricks comes the brothers, dirty, but unharmed, unbroken. I immediately thought of myself. Somehow I keep coming out of the rubble walking. I feel good about that.

  19. Lucy,

    In some cases what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, Blues Sister!

    Btw, want to amend my comments above about parents who hover to mean parents who hover for all the wrong reasons!!

  20. Hi Lucy, a really good book about the extreme of status seeking through your children is the book, ‘The Nanny Diaries.’

    I get the helicopter parenting if a parent is doing things like making sure their kids aren’t watching porn online.

    1. A helicopter parent won’t allow a kid to make mistakes, to use judgement, to live and learn, to take a fall

      1. What type of adults do the children of helicopter parents end up like?

        I’m very interested, my brother is a non hovering parent but he is married to a hovering wife who is a hovering mother to their two adult children and a hovering daughter to her parents. To me it looks like she is enormously controlling and it’s spilling over to their grandchildren now. The more and more I spectate the more I feel she has crippled her adult children.

        Does anyone have experience with this? I’d never offer advice to my brother or his wife but it’s something I’d like to learn more about.

    1. Joey,

      Loved the song, it reminded me of you and all in all actuality I pictured you looking like the fellow that sang the song. I hope that safe place in your head doesn’t remain forever closed off to others. I know this world is a mess, there are some good people out there and my prayers are you find a special friend in your part of the world you can share some of those parts of yourself that you had to protect and close off from ones that didn’t deserve you. Joey, you have a lot left of yourself, you also have your soul.

      I love British comedy and programming. Did they do a series surrounding this song? Here in the states I loved watching British mysteries, like Sherlock Holmes and several others. We also, have Masterpiece theater, not like the old series presented but like them. Do you have any that you recommend?

      Thanks for posting, as usual, you come up with great links.

        1. Joey,

          I watched the movie Porridge. I really liked it, it had me in sticthes when the head of the prison sneezed and his cap and dentures were stirred into the pot. Then they cup up the other guards bicycle so it fell apart. I needed a good belly laugh. Thank you

          1. Joey,
            As I said above I really enjoyed the movie. Do you have any suggestions for any others? I have a difficult time falling asleep and then I remembered your posting the link. I like the classic stories too, I loved Oliver Twist, I believe, I Claudius was English too.
            Thank you

  21. Hi Sydney,

    What kind of adults do kids become who are hovered over? I think it depends how the hovering manifests. I think the kind of hovering Lucy is describing can create children who rebel and become hostile to anyone imposing on their freedom.

    More often what I see are young adults who don’t individuate, in the way we did. That has to impact character, on some level — and more probably in young men, I am guessing.

    The economy forces a lot of people to live with their parents, so there has to be some kind of work around though, to let adults become adults. I don’t know what the answer is. I do know that I could never kick a kid out of my house if they had no way to support themselves.

    1. Thanks LisaO,
      What I’ve witnessed in my family is two sister-in-laws who seem to think their children should never feel ONE moment of hardship. They completely enable their adult children to be dependent. We are talking about kids in their mid 30s. These sister-in-laws appear perplexed as they wonder why their children are unmotivated. I have a nephew who lives at home at 35, does not pay rent but goes on vacations.

      Is this some kind of martyrdom on the mother’s side because their husbands (my bros) enable their wives to be the way they are. I would never kick a “kid” out either but if an adult can vacation, not have to pay rent then what is this about. I am amazed how these hovering mothers who are my sister-in-laws do not see the damage they’ve done. The daughters can barely take care of their own children because they have no confidence and have a lot of anxiety and depression. The son is in no hurry to move out even though he’s 35, why would he be, he has everything done for him for free.

      Often when we are out socially with the parents of these “kids” I hear them say ” well heaven knows when we’ll ever be alone ha, ha cuz so and so will be with us forever, ha, ha” and then later on it turns into how they’re getting fed up. We just keep our mouths shut. How prevalent is this?

  22. Hi Sydney, I responded,at length but if didn’t go through. I will try again from my laptop. May have someth g to do with signal strength and connectivity issues with my tablet.

  23. Hi Sydney,

    In a nutshell, the kids will be ill equipped for the real world or run a risk of narcissism, because they feel they are the centre of the universe. Or they might do the healthy thing and rebel…when they are 40,

    1. LisaO – to be sure!

      It takes a few hard knocks and shocks to snap out of ego fixation to almost the point someone has to die in order for someone to wake the F&&%& up. I was 34 when I got my first shock and it took another 6 years later to figure out the only way to deal with it is deal with myself. Then the hard yards start.


    2. It’s very difficult to watch the parents enable these adult “kids”. We simply listen because any advice would be met with reasoning and excuses.

      I think I was a borderline helicopter mom….oh hell, I WAS a helicopter mom and my daughter was having none of it. I have very restful sleeps not worrying and hovering all the time, it’s been years since she’s allowed me to circle to make sure every move she made was a safe one. Good on her for standing up to me. We’ve watched her gain independence, get a career, travel, enjoy nice friends, fall down a few times, get up again and move on. If she needs advice she’ll ask for it.

      1. Sydney,

        haha. I hovered a little too much and probably still do. I’m still learning to back up. Problem is, her screw-ups are ones that affect me financially, because without my help she’d be jobless. So what I’m doing is trying to save myself, because I won’t let her slip into the sewers.

  24. I think I can sum this up in a couple sentences, please feel free to disagree-when someone feels that everyone else’s life is there for their purpose and their happiness, the translation being, they really believe they are the center of the universe (namely, yours), then don’t bother arguing, there is no point. Walk away, run if you have to.

  25. Ugh. Reading this, i realize how I blew it and lost a dear friend asap a consequence. I tried to “cut her down to size,” and just as Dr . Simon predicted, it turned into a stupid battle. What he suggests above is far harder, and as he says in his Character Distance book, i think, you have to take the emotion out of it, which is maybe easier for s therapist confronting someone, less so for someone close to you? Perhaps. Anyway, I’ve reflected on this moment with this friend many times “nuerotically,”be perhaps overthinking it, but this does confirm SOMETHING I did wrong, that might have saved a friendship and maybe even helped lead someone I care about in the right direction. Ugh. We’ll, perhaps one.say, i can think of a way to fix things? Who knows. Thanks, Dr. Simon.

    1. Sorry for all the typos. It’s late, and I’m not the best text-typer, and I can’t edit the comment AFAIK.

    2. While I’m at it, Dr. Simon, is there a way I can apologize for the “cutting down to size mistake I made.” She currently won’t talk to me. I am quite certain that if I told you what and how I responded to her, you would disapprove. I am trying to learn and grow up.

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