Becoming a Better Person – Pt 2

Most of us aren’t the same person we were 10, 15, or even 20 years ago. Hopefully, that’s because we have learned some lessons in life and grown and matured as a result. Life is forever offering us a lesson or two to be learned. But we have to be open to the learning process and willing to ponder our lessons conscientiously if we’re to really benefit from them. That’s what becoming a better person is all about. Sometimes, that requires making only minor changes in our basic personality. But when our personality is as deeply dysfunctional as it is ingrained, becoming a better person can be a most daunting task – often requiring efforts bordering on the heroic.

Our personalities are shaped by a number of influences. Our innate temperament, our emotional constitution, our behavioral predispositions, the painful experiences that made deep impressions on us, and the positive influences that were unfortunately all-too-absent all play roles. Moreover, these things dynamically interact with each other over the course of our early development (I discuss the multidimensional nature of personality development on pp. 24-26 in Character Disturbance). And by the time we reach the “age of reason” (somewhere around age 7), most of us have forged for ourselves a distinctive personality – our own unique way of seeing things and doing things. Unfortunately, sometimes our personalities shape up in some pretty dysfunctional ways. In our times, this happens much more frequently than it used to. Far too many folks these days experience or cause problems in their lives primarily because of the ways they tend see things and do things. It’s their attitudes, core beliefs, and general ways of coping that gets them into trouble. And once these things habit (because they’ve been so often either “enabled” or reinforced) it’s really dificult to change them.

Becoming a better person takes a lot of deliberate, sustained effort. And acquiring the right motivation to do the work involved is often a bit tricky. Sometimes, life hands us a fair degree of defeat. Unpleasant circumstances can prompt us to take a second look at our ways. But when the motivation to change is strictly external (e.g., a fed-up spouse has issued an “ultimatum,” we’ve just been fired from yet another job, we’ve gotten ourselves into legal or financial hot water, etc.) change is rarely more than superficial and hardly ever long-lasting. It’s always better when our motivation is internal – arising out of a sincere desire to serve a higher cause. This means setting our pride aside, placing our faith in something bigger than ourselves (this is the point I stress in The Judas Syndrome), and accepting the responsibility of doing whatever it takes for as long as it takes to be better and to do better.  In the coming weeks, I’ll be sharing some examples of how some folks managed to do exactly that as well as how some folks allowed ego to stand in the way of potentially positive character growth.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

The blog has been undergoing some major reconstruction to address some of the security-related issues we’ve been having. We have migrated to new servers with more sophisticated caching in the hopes of resolving some of the problems commentators were having.  The servers will hopefully also be more reliable, so those pesky “website not found” or other error messages won’t occur as often.  As always, I appreciate commentators sending me feedback about any issues that arise.  Our commentators are part of the life blood of this blog and the value of their contributions is immeasurable.  So I extend both my thanks and a standing invitation for the readers to address any and all issues that might arise.

More workshop venues and dates will be posted in the coming weeks, so be sure to check out the seminars page.

THANKS SO MUCH TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE PURCHASED OR RECOMMENDED MY BOOK HOW DID WE END UP HERE? OR SUBMITTED AN ONLINE REVIEW. It’s word-of-mouth recommendations that have made bestsellers out of all my books.  In the next few weeks I’ll have more information to give you about a new book on character development scheduled for release later this summer (just in time for back-to-school).

My radio program Character Matters will again be live this Sunday evening at 7 pm EDT (6 pm Central), so I can take your calls.

139 thoughts on “Becoming a Better Person – Pt 2

  1. Donna,

    Here is a good psychologically oriented blog.

    In terms of leadership and business, I have a blog in mind or more than one about Marcus Lemonis and the dysfunctional non-leaders he finds running businesses – and what has gone wrong in them. Will be pretty interesting I think.

    Love, dk

    1. Dr. Simon,
      The book far outweighs what I anticipated, the woman on the front cover looks similar to me but far younger. I am still reading but from what I read thus far, the book reminded me of Scott Pecks best seller A road Less Traveled.

      No doubt this masterpiece in all its simplicity will take its audience captive, the book is magnificent and I hope it will make it to the top 10 with the right media attention. Dr. Simon it is that good! You hit on the core truths of the problem and the book is laid out in such understandable terms for everyone.

      The truth is bold and to the point, all the gobbledygook has been left out. For a century now the top doctors in the field have been studying these individuals and they in essence are still stuck and rubbing their foreheads. In essence you have hit the nail on the head several times over.

      This book is a winner and should be required reading in all professions before graduating.

      Much success so you can go on to the next book.. After I finish I will comment further.

  2. I have a question, with estrangement an epidemic. What impact will this have on the grandchildren who knew there grandparents? They saw how there mother snatched the love & affection away? They know the lies that fallowed?

  3. Dr. Simon.
    The first sentence “Most of us aren’t the same person we were 5, 10, or even 20 years ago.” At the same time I am reading this sentence I have 2 copies of How Did We End Up Here? in my hands. Flipping through the pages I know I will need my High-liter and fine tip pen for notes. Opening at page 64;
    Artful confrontation is powerful and can make genuine change possible.

    Every health care professional I consulted echoed the same message, the CDN is not treatable. Nor, did they want to take on a CDN. The one and only Dr. a psychologist and a Vietnam Vet in Special Op’s, twice decorated with Purple Hearts was willing to see the CDN. This doctor had also worked for the court system as a specialist in this field. The doctors response to me was; ” I have worked with individuals like this all my life and they are resistant to change, if anything you teach the old dog new tricks. I can guarantee they will be in this office for less than 2 minutes and tell me F——–You and walk out.”

    So there you have it, after many attempts to find a medical professional to work with I found, my only recourse was to go No Contact without having ever had the opportunity to have tried things differently. This will always haunt me, as after spending so many years of ones life with someone it may have been better had I known a different approach than the one presented, it may have worked.

    Going forward the extra copy is for a present for my doctor this week with 4 more ordered for other doctors in the field to read. It will be interesting to hear their opinion of your book. So for a great Saturday night date with a good read, I just hope I don’t cry to much. I am forever changed!

    God bless you Dr. Simon may God keep you and your family safe and well.

  4. To be able to become a better person you have to admit to yourself that you could do something better. Toxic people see themselves as perfect and there is no need for improvement.

    Sent from Outlook Mobile

  5. 1. Compliment yourself
    every morning before you go on with your daily routine; take a couple of minutes to give yourself a compliment. Whether you compliment your outfit, haircut, or how you recently completed a task using your unique skill sets, giving yourself a little emotional boost will make you happy. And, when you’re happy with yourself, that emotion. Inspirational speaker Tony Robbins has a mantra he says aloud to himself most days to put him in a peak performance state.

    2. Don’t Make Excuses
    Blaming your spouse, boss, or clients is fruitless and won’t get you very far. Instead of pointing fingers and making excuses about why you aren’t happy or successful in your personal or professional life, own your mistakes and learn from them. When you do this, you will become a better person. When I personally started living up to my mistakes and downfalls, my life turned itself around. I became happier and healthier, and my relationship with my wife improved. We are happier than ever.

    3. Let Go of Anger
    letting go of anger is easier said than done. While anger is a perfectly normal emotion, you can’t let it fester. When this happens, you may make unwise decisions, and more important, it may affect your health. Research suggests pent up anger can cause digestive problems, difficulty sleeping, and even heart disease.
    To help you let go of anger, Roya R. Rad, MA, PsyD, suggests you write your feelings down, pray or meditate, or begin to manage your thoughts.

    4. Practice Forgiveness
    Joyce Marter, LCPC, suggests you forgive and let go of resentment. She notes, “If for no other reason than for yourself, forgive to untether yourself from the negative experiences of the past. Take time to meditate, and give thanks for the wisdom and knowledge gained from your suffering. Practice the mantra, ‘I forgive you and I release you.'”

    5. Be Honest and Direct
    how would you feel if a loved one or business partner lied to you? Chances are you would see that as a violation of your trust. If you want to be a better person in either your personal or professional life, you should always tell the truth and state as clearly as possible what you are trying to convey. Learn to articulate your thoughts, feelings, and ideas in an open and honest manner.

    6. Be Helpful
    Whether giving up your seat to an elderly person on the subway, assisting a co-worker on a project, or carrying in the groceries when your spouse comes back from the store, being helpful is one of the easiest and most effective ways to practice becoming a better person. I find that the more I help others, the better I feel about myself and everyone around me.

    7. Listen to Others
    As Jeet Banerjee notes on Lifehack, “listening to people and giving everyone a voice is one of the greatest things you can do.” He adds that he “got to meet some of the most amazing people, close some of the biggest deals, and develop connections that will last me a lifetime all because I took time to listen to people. Being a good listener can change your life in a positive manner.”

    8. Act Locally
    It may not seem like a big deal, but supporting a local cause, donating clothes, or buying from local farmers’ markets or businesses are simple ways you can help your specific region. You may not be able to save the world, but you very well could make a difference in your neck of the woods. Get to know and care about your community.

    9. Always Be Polite
    How much effort does it take to say, “Thank you,” or to hold the elevator door open for someone? Not much at all. However, these acts of kindness can make someone’s day. I decided a few years ago that it doesn’t matter if someone is ultra rude, condescending, or worse.
    ( I made this mistake BIG TIME. I let her get to me)
    The way someone else behaves is not going to determine my behaviour.

    10. Be Yourself
    Tiffany Mason has five excellent reasons on Lifehack why you should be yourself. These include being able to align yourself with your values and beliefs, establish your identity, build courage, create boundaries, and find focus and direction.

    11. Be Open to Change
    Whether trying a new restaurant, travelling to an unknown part of the world, or doing something that has always scared you, you should always be open to change. This allows you to grow because you experience something new. It helps you be high functioning and self-confident if you are not wary of change.

    12. Be Respectful
    How would you feel if you had just cleaned your home and someone came in and tracked mud everywhere? You’d probably be a little ticked that they hadn’t taken off their shoes. Take this mentality and apply it to everyday life. For example, don’t toss your trash or cigarette butts on the floor of public restrooms or sidewalks just because someone else will clean it up. Be respectful of others’ time, thoughts, ideas, lifestyles, feelings, work, and everything else. You don’t have to agree with any of it, but people have a right to their opinions and yours is not necessarily correct.

    13. Don’t Show Up Empty-handed
    Going to a party this weekend at your friend’s apartment? Make sure you don’t arrive empty-handed. Even if you’ve been assured that there will be plenty of food and drink, bring along a little something to show you appreciate being invited.

    14. Educate Yourself
    If you don’t understand why one country is invading another; take the time to educate yourself on the current event. Ask a person intimately connected with the event for his or her thoughts. Remember, we’re all interconnected, and being aware of different cultures, different people, and what their lives are like can make you a more well-rounded individual. This will also help you understand points of view different from your own.

    15. Surprise People
    How good does it feel to make someone smile? It feels pretty good, right? Surprise your loved ones or co-workers now and then, with a gift, a night out on the town, or by offering help when you know they could use it.
    Becoming a better person doesn’t happen overnight, but it is possible. Believe in yourself and know that it is possible!

  6. Tough times. How and when did most of you finally let the CD go?
    I was married to him for 40 years – he is dragging out the divorce but is not interested in doing marriage counseling or adjusting his behavior at all. All he says is that he has changed and I can’t forgive and forget. This hurts because I hung on far longer than I should have. I still have this little voice telling me that I should have kept on trying.
    I do ok for a while and then I reach out to him again, trying to talk. These exchanges always set me back because he says he loves me and feels like he has lost his best friend – YET he won’t even try.
    I think a large part of my trouble in finally letting go is that I just can’t understand. I can’t wrap my hands around this stubbornness. Therefore it makes me doubt myself and not him. But, he won’t do marriage counseling – a basic minimal effort to save a marriage.
    Feeling very sad and lonely. Need some words of encouragement.

      1. Timohty,——-
        Rather, Oh my, glad you said it, that’s how they treated us. Miss Jackie, I hope she and family are OK. Should had got her Email while it was up. I was surprised to see how many posters are from Europe. What part are you from? I forgot.

        Jeanne, the guy is telling you he cant forgive or forget, he doesn’t want to go to counseling, he does not want to take responsibility for any of his evil doings. He is a taker not a giver and will not change. If he even seems to change somewhat it takes time and talk from these type of people is cheap. He is hoping he will wear you down. Then once these selfish, calculating, CDN’S have you where he wants you he will make you pay. It will get far worse than it was when you left.

        Dr. Simons books will keep your head straight while you are going through this very emotional time.

      2. I’m from UK.

        A few times I saw some completely other emails mix with my handle, as well as with other handles. Kinda annoying, to say it again. Apparently some posters are from many countries at once, if glimpses were anythign to go by. 😉

        Also seen some posts by my handle that weren’t really by me. And I think I accidentally posted a few times before checking the handle and might’ve posted as someone else. If so, sorry.

        I hope JAckie’s fine, too. She’s got a lot to say in her own right, though we seem to take some unusual directions when talking. The last I remember saying to her was giving her a link to a page about brainwashing. That was after I’d replied to some old comment by Dr Simon. My reply to Dr Simon’s comment wasn’t about brainwashing, though, but something else.

        Brainwashing’s been quite a lot on my mind, especially with E’s comment a few threads ago that I thought sounded like children were being brainwashed by a malicious manipulator or at least groomed. Grooming, another nasty word, though I usually associate it with child predators.

        Another comment worth checking out again, about very disturbing realities among us, is in this thread:

        http://www.drgeorgesimon.com/personality-and-character-disorders-when-its-serious/

        Check out Kay’s comment(November 24, 2015 at 2:22 am) about personality- and character-disordered neighbors getting off on extreme, overt harassment, disrespect, bullying, sadism, misbehavior and scumbaggery.

        That’s without mentioning the children there. Is what’s going on with them better described or thought of as brainwashing, grooming, learning destructive values(but being a free-willing agent?), indoctrinating like in terrorist organizations except in a different form or something else?

        I regret my response to Kay for failing to give at least some direction even if I wasn’t sure what.

        Kay, if you just would happen to read these comments, it would be great if you could come back to comment, even if just a few comments. I may not be able to help you, but many others may be.

    1. Jean,

      You have taken the first major step and just keep moving forward. Find new hobbies and maybe join a yoga class to clear your mind. Try hard to keep your mind occupied. I can understand the trials that you are facing because you dealt with psychological abuse for 40+ years. You need to uncover the real you. You were only allowed to show the person that the narc wanted to see. I know that a survivor of narc abuse is one of the most beautiful people. We have so many insights into many things that other people can not comprehend.

      Another important step that you need to take is reading as many books that you can about strong women. Marianne Williamson has a great one that I read. It is in storage right now so I can’t give a specific name.

      I was married to my first narc for 13 years and I was with a psycho for about 5 years but I also have a very dysfunctional family. I did not ever find a name for the toxic individuals until about 10 years ago and then I did a tremendous amount of research on narcissism. I know that you can do some deep soul searching and find out what works for you. Good luck and seek spiritual guidance if you need to.

      Sent from Outlook Mobile

    2. Please excuse me, Jeannie, for getting on tangents. I hope things shall get better for you, too, and soon.

      I think this is a good tie to say this that I may not post here for a few weeks. I’m being busy seeing people I know, including some I haven’t seen for a long time. Seeing people can be great!

      It’s gonna be journeying back and forth a lot. There’s no need to get concerned about me. Even if at some point I do like Alan P did a while back, it’s simply life calling, like it tends to. I do intend to comment many times yet.

      For a while, I’ll have matters calling me.

      1. Timothy,
        Thanks for letting us know in the meantime we will all miss you and will be looking forward to your return. Have a wonderful time. (Hugs…..
        Oh, when things were haywire a couple of my post came up with your name, I just got tired of everything and just let it go.
        The convo on brainwashing is very important because the CD use these same techniques. We can go back to that subject when you come back and in the meantime I will look for some of my reads on it.

    3. Jeannie,

      Offer for counseling comes from a person that is suffering and still willing to give a chance to marriage. That person is you.
      He is character disturbed. He is still playing games with you. He won’t go for counseling because he is fully aware what he was always up to and how his game could end.
      That little voice you hear is your guilt feeling that you may be doing wrong by not giving him a chance. I think you gave him plenty, not only in recent times, but also over 40 years. He never picked up on his chances. People who want something, they create their own chances. But he has let a flotilla of chances go by, and that is his problem.
      Even if you manage to drag him screaming and kicking to counselor, he is very likely to continue to play his games on counselor too. And, oh boy, if he manages to hoodwink counselor too, he will be hopping ahead of you to go for more such “counseling”.
      His stubbornness is simply attempt to make us neurotic doubt ourselves. He is simply hoping that you again sink in your swamp of maybes, hopefully, changes, etc.

      1. Thank you Andy. What you say makes so much sense. And I know this deep down – It just helps to hear it. I work from home so I have limited social contact. Almost all of our friends that we socialized with over the decades work with my husband and they have blocked me out. There is no telling what he has told them.
        My family Has been very distant with their emotional support.
        Thank you again for your words – you have no idea how much it helps.

        1. Jeannie,
          Don’t cares about what a liar says. It takes time, but web will eventually collapse, it can hold limited number of lies.
          It will help if you start weekend social visit. Maybe Sunday Church.
          Plan a week long trip to your family. If they are nice people who happen to grow apart, then I am sure it will be pleasant trip for you and your extended family. You could plan it as a week-long road trip too. It will feel good to give some serious planning to such trip, even if you cannot convert into reality. 🙂

          1. Jean,

            I would just like to add that forums like this are what helped make such a big difference for me. It’s all very important to find people who understand what you’re going through and don’t look at you like you have three eyes or even make it seem like it is somehow your fault. I don’t know how many times I heard JUST GET OVER IT AND QUIT PLAYING THE VICTIM. My dysfunctional family has an answer to prove that everything that has ever gone on in my life is because of something that I have done. They are wrong and want to think that they are perfect. Remember that rumors are spread by idiots and believed by bigger idiots. A smear campaign survives only for a while.

            Keep your head up and graciously open up your brand new world.

            Sent from Outlook Mobile

      2. Andy,

        I would just like to mention that this is very well said. I got my ex-psycho to go to marriage counseling with me but when he could not pull the wool over the psychiatrist’s eyes he got very irate. The toxic ones think that they know more than anyone else including God. It is a wicked circle.

        Sent from Outlook Mobile

    4. Jeanie,

      He likes things as they were. He could go on like that forever. But you, my friend, said it, you already went on far too long.
      He says he “lost his best friend”. What kind of friend is he, anyway? Do friends treat each other badly. He says he’s changed. Changed what? No counseling – because he will not be confronted and have to answer, that’s why. There is no effort on his part. He knows you feel badly when he tells you certain things, because you have a soul still, and humanity. He will use it to his advantage, your disadvantage.
      I let go after 30 years. Many of us did. I’ll tell you what, after a little getting used to being without the jackass you will have work to do – figuring out why it took you so long to do it, what actually happened in the marriage, lots of issues. And hopefully your CDN won’t be nearly as difficult to divorce as mine is. His true colors are now full blown, and they are Black and Dark.
      Quit beating yourself up. You deserve much much more. And you’re probably not as confused as you think you are – you’re probably seeing things very clearly, you just don’t like what you see. YOu can do. We all did.

      1. Thank you Lucy. I think I do think I see things more clearly than I realize. I just have to learn to trust my gut instinct.
        I have so many, many regrets and if I had had the confidence to leave sooner a lot of things would not have happened that I am beating myself up now over. I am aware of my own faults. Too aware.
        He didn’t sleep with me for 29 years. I continually confronted him saying I was lonely over all those years – but he would not share our bedroom. A few years ago I tearfully told him I was very lonely and would he please sleep with me (this was not the only issue – but one of many). He very coolly told me to have an affair if I was lonely. I became very depressed and sad – but unfortunately didn’t leave then. I didn’t have the self confidence.

        About two years after that I did have an interaction with another man and I felt so horrible about it I told my husband. He now uses this against me because he knows how guilty I feel about it. He says now he didn’t mean it for me to have an affair and I should have known that when he said it – he said he said it because he just wanted me to drop the subject of him sleeping with me.

        So, as you can see I kind of made a mess of things in the last few years we were together – they were full of arguments and me spiraling into deep depression.

        He never cheated on me but would say cruel things like “I was boring my friends” – and that “I was lucky he shared his friends with me”. I became a very insecure mess. I found out last year that he was sexually molested by his seventh-grade male teacher that he and I remained close friends with well into our 20s. My husband idolized this teacher and I considered him my friend also. He was a pedofile. I of course had no idea this had happened until recently. When I found out last year my husband said he never told me because it was none of my business and that he handled it when he was 12. But he didn’t. He loved this teacher. I think it is the missing key to a 40 year problem he has had with intimacy with me.

        If I had left when I should have – I could have left with my head held high and not feeling so guilty. But I wanted him to love me and to want me. Then I ended up just wanting someone to want me. Sad. And a part of me really believed that I was a social outcast without him. I had so little self confidence. I don’t think I have recovered it yet.

        So, I didn’t leave soon enough. But the funny thing is I wasn’t emotionally able to when I need to. After I had the affair I broke down and had to go to a mental institution for three days – I checked myself in. The night my husband pick me up he yelled at me all the way home and told me he had recordings of me in case he ever need them to have me committed. Not something someone just leaving that nightmare wants to hear. But this was the way it was.

        While I was in the hospital my husband said he spoke to my therapist and my therapist said something about me being needy and that she had her boundaries with her patients. The day after I got out my husband took me to my therapist for an appointment. I was so embarrassed by what he told me she said that apologized to her and told her that I didn’t mean to make her feel I was clinging. She had no idea what I was talking about. Apparently my husband never even spoke to her. She called him into the office and questioned him about it in front of me – he said he must have gotten confused. He said he was on pain pills at the time and must have gotten confused. Always an excuse.

        I still don’t understand everything that has happened. My therapist said my husband has been gaslighting me. But why would someone do that? I’m naive. I just don’t understand.

        So, I’m far from perfect. Im baring everything here and it’s painful. But I do have a concience and I know now that my husband doesn’t. I think I was doing the best I could under the circumstances.

        I wish I had had the confidence to walk out sooner.

        1. Jeannie,

          I think your therapist is good. You should continue meeting her if you can afford to. Spend time on this website reading blogs, I am sure you will find several of the blogs that will help you a lot.

          I think you are good person. Your husband should have felt lucky to have you. If he doesn’t, then that is his problem. Personally, if I were in your place, I wouldn’t have felt huge guilt about affair, and no way I would have felt so horrible about myself to get admitted to an institution. Only point that I will allow myself to get pinned down will be the order of events that I should have formally ended current relationship, before starting new one. Even on this point I may just keep my mouth shut and nod without really agreeing, this order hardly makes any difference in a marriage that was sexless for good 3 decades whatever the reason maybe.
          You are on right path. Meet your therapist. Read blogs here. Read Dr. Simon’s books. Have a bit of social life. And, just give yourself 6 months or a year doing all that, and you will doing very well. 🙂

    5. Jeanie,

      My STBX (soon to be ex) CDN went to marriage counseling with me after I caught him having an affair. So he did go to counseling, but lied throughout the entirety of it. Turned out the GF was one of many prostitutes. Anyway, I guess my point is that even some that do go to counseling are not going to come out smelling rosy through it all. My STBX lied throughout. But boy did I learn a lot from the sessions. One thing I learned was how to confront the CD and not let his manipulative tactics get the upper hand. What he did prior to a confrontation from me was scream and yell and shout, but I was taught to not let him get away with that. I learned to keep coming at him till I got my answer. Well, I’d never get an answer, because who am I to question the King? But I’d go at him like a bull dog and he would get so frustrated that his manipulative tactics would not work anymore that he would just leave the house.
      Jeanine, just ask yourself is he worth all the grief? Do you enjoy his companionship? Does he look after your interests? Do you want to spend your entire life with him, till your dying day? You don’t have to. There is a life out there without him. And it’s a good life.
      I know how you get beat down, but I also know you can LEARN how to pick back up, walk away and live a life.
      Just know, he’s not going to change. People don’t change because you ask them to and that it’s a condition of staying. It won’t work. He is what you see. Just accept it. And forget the notion that he’s good deep inside. If he’s CD he’s not good deep inside. Deep inside is lots more ugly. Once you are willing to see him for what he really is it will be much easier for you to walk away.

      1. Jeanne,
        So far you have gotten excellent advice and input from Andy and Lucy. You are caught up in a crazy making loop of insanity. Anyone with a sense of normality is shaking their head. There is so much NUTSOISM (new word) going on how could one even begin to make sense of these reptilian blade runners and you are their prey, years of feeding and I mean literally sucking your life out of you like a parasitic leach.

        Jeanne, Order all of Dr. Simons books immediately. If you haven’t any funds email Dr. Simon for my email and I will buy them for you and send them to you. Start reading everything you can get your hands on pertaining to Narcissism. Read the archives on this blog. There is so much on line. I have hundreds of books on the subject. What you describe (pathology) has been written about and sturdied by many doctors.

        What I can tell you from my experience with these individuals is that as they age they regress deeper into their pathology. Do not try to figure him out, that can be done later if you choose. For your mental health and survival you need to separate from him emotionally and find other avenues of support. This is a safe place and Dr. Simon regularly monitors his blog.
        Dr. Simon is a renowned world wide for his work in this field.

        Jeanne, For your safety do not let him know you are posting on this site. I don’t know what your plans are but I am warning you to be very careful in not letting him know your thoughts. From what you have said he is out to destroy you. Be very careful, if he is computer literate make sure he can’t find out your info, Always, Always, DELETE your history.

        Change your name on this site too, to protect your identity if he could trace you back to here. Be safe, at all times and don’t engage if you are still living with him.. He sounds so very toxic and there is nothing you can do for him. I know its hard but you must take back yourself. Stop feeling guilty. Life is always a choice of how we want to be regardless of what has happened to us. Your husband chooses to be charactered disordered and know this
        He Knows What He Is Doing.

        Stop feeling guilty, he could care less except to have more of anything to treat you badly. You have the power to take back your life and stop being the whipping boy. If anyone should feel guilt it should be him for treating another humane being worse than a Nothing, because that is exactly what he considers you.

        I could tell you the tragic childhood I had, that does not give me the right to a sacrificial lamb which you are and the right to destroy you. If you can start by trying to observe your situation as if the scenario you presented was your next door neighbor and she was telling you all this…. What would you think????? Looks a whole lot different doesn’t it? You would say OMG!!!!!

        Jeanne, Andy is one of our Men posters and he and others like him sees things in a mans perspective and are very astute and objective in their assessment of ones comment, he is telling you exactly what is truth. Listen to them the poster have first hand experience and yes, Wisdom.

        I am popping in and out and hope I can follow the posts, most of all I hope you stay here and let everyone help you. Its sounds like you are drowning, there are resources and help for you. Don’t give up, fight for your life, because it is your God given Life and you deserve it, it does not belong to him! Don’t listen to his lies anymore, listen to your truth, you are a child of God and he grants forgiveness, give it to him and it is gone.

        God bless and keep you Safe

        1. Jeanie,

          BTOV has helped me tremendously, as have the other posters. Once you read the articles on Narc some of the fog will lift. You will reach a point where you will expect him to behave a certain way, the Narc way. And no it does not make sense because it goes against everything we’ve been taught about how to treat others, etc., how to live a clean life. Narcs don’t follow that path – ever. You don’t need him to feed your soul. He’s a soul sucker.
          Believe me, I’ve gone through the pain. I cried for three months straight – from shock and realization of what had actually been happening in the marriage. Then one day the tears dried up. And I Was Angry! Angry for a good year. Now the anger has finally lifted (not all of it) and I’m at the point of disgust and distancing my emotions a little more as time goes on.
          The truth is hard to take. We thought we meant something important to the spouse. What is important to us though is entirely different than what is important to spouse – why they want to keep us around.
          This is time to start digging into your financial matters if you don’t already know what it is. I didn’t. I had the trust. Shame on me. I should have INSISTED on knowing what was going on financially. But the CDN had a way of putting his thumb on me to shut me up, throwing insults at me, how dare I question him. If he’s not physically abusing you, you have time to start digging around the house and banks, etc.
          Jeanie, you are going to be fine. Trust your gut. No more self doubt. And that affair, you deserved it and more for being with Mr. Iceberg so long denying you touch and sensuality. (Mine was untouchable – to me – he liked to pay prostitutes to service him – YUK!!!) Just a side note – my BF is a very loving touchy man. Just what I needed after Mr. Iceberg. (I know lots of people don’t agree with this aspect – but it is what it is).
          Just remember – he lies, has an agenda and it is not to your benefit.

          1. Gknee,

            Think about this, for 30 years who do you think he was having an affair with???? He was having one and still is you just didn’t realize it. He loves and cherishes this reptilian human above all else. It is himself, he loves himself and only himself. He may have other perverted sidekicks but they are just for his pleasure and amusement.

            He could had cared less you were having an affair if thats what you call it because you had no marriage to speak of. He was able to use the affair because he knew it was a RED button he could push and make you feel bad.

            I don’t necessarily agree the affair was the right thing but if that is what keep your sanity at the time and saved you from losing yourself then you did what you needed to do in order to survive. Compared to a loveless marriage I don’t think their is anyone that would think badly of you and if they do they are not your friend and get away from them. The only judge there is is God. and yourself.

            You can’t change the past but you can change the future. If I am reading another post right you have left him. Let us know if you are still in the home and where you are at. That will make a difference on what we will comment on.

            Gknee, read the blog it will give you strength and validation, you will slowly learn to understand the unbelievable head games this sorry excuse for a pathetic boy/man you spent your life with. The point is to heal and make these the best years of your life. To find happiness, peace and joy and others that will love you for you.

            We need to let go of the guilt that they use to control us with and when the fog starts lifting you will begin to see differently. In fact there is a blog called Out of the Fog. The CD control and it is all about control out of Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

            I hope you stay and let us help and support you, it will not be easy but it will be liberating to have peace. There was a man I spoke to about his divorce and the one thing in our conversation that he said that stood out the most was “I don’t ever have to hear her nagging voice again.” Boy, did that ring loud and clear for me, the silence of NO Contact and not having to hearing his whining when he was not in control of me anymore.

            When I learned the word NO and nothing he said or did did I let it affect me, gained control of the imaginary reins in the relationship. It was not easy to do, but it helped build inner the strength and resolve I always had, which is why he chose me in the first place.

            Forgive yourself and if you have faith ask for forgiveness and know you are forgiven. Let today as they say be the new beginning for you , you can’t change the past but you can decide your future. Guilt will be a tough one to release and let go of. Guilt is good but not so much that we take on everyone else’s.

            Start taking care of yourself mentally, physically, and spiritually. Start eating well and doing the things you like. Let him fend for himself and find another whipping boy which in time he will find if he loses you. What he thinks doesn’t matter only what you think of yourself. You will find what you and others that care about you is way different then what he thinks. —— Forget about the friends and relatives he pits against you. Believe me a Friend in Need is a Friend Indeed. (Not my Quote) You need only one friend to believe in you and here we ALL believe in you!

            I have things on my plate too, helping and reinforcing others helps me to see my dealings with CD individuals more clearly. As you read the blog and participate you will find others like yourself and it will validate your own experience at the same time you will find a sense of satisfaction as you grow and offer your input to newbies.

            Take very good care and have a wonderful and blessed day. (Hugs)

          2. Lucy,
            Love your thought process. We are all finally getting out of the daycare business. I sure know I can’t do Romper Room anymore those Bully Brats can have each other. Hmmm….. thats an idea lets put them all in a community together and we will build ours.

            That would be a good show for TV King of Romper Room adult six year old bullies fighting for the control stick and the Throne of Captain May I.

            I needed a good belly laugh, sure know Timothy would had liked this one. Hope he’s having a nice Holiday.

            Hugs…….

        2. BTOV,
          Thank you for your kind words! I have read all Dr. Simons books and downloaded the new one a couple of days ago. I am about 50 pages in and loving it.
          My name on this site is made up. I am trying to protect myself as much as possible.
          Sometimes I do feel that I am drowning. I’m 60 and have been married to him since 19 – I often don’t even know who I am at times being all alone. It’s a strange feeling. Very surreal.
          I have triggers. Going to the grocery store is one of them. We’ve been separated for over a year but for some reason buying groceries for just me is very sad. I always cry on the way home.
          I’m hoping I will get over this – but I really have my doubts. I don’t know what I would do without this blog, you guys and Dr. Simons books.
          Love the support you all give each other.

          1. Jeannie,

            Being alone after all that time has to be surreal. It’s you with your thoughts. Honestly, I haven’t been alone yet. I went from bad marriage to moving out of marital home to a friend’s house, so I have friendship companionship, and met a gentleman quickly that I spend time with. I don’t want to be alone. I like companion. I understand the crying, it was no in your plan to eat alone. But aren’t you glad to be away from all the surreal drama and abuse? I’d Rather be alone than with that jackass any day of the week.
            I think you’ll get used to is. Maybe hang for dinner with friends if they are available. I know the feeling – the long term marriage that went bad, real bad. But you still have the rest of your life left to live as you please, without interference from the CD. I’m still trying to divorce mine. He’s a real piece of work. He’s a CONTROL FREAK – to the point of hurting even himself.
            I wish you the best. It takes a good long while to heal, that’s for sure.

          2. I wanted to reply to Linda/ or Lucy. My email notification says the message was from Linda but it shows as Lucy on the bog – without a reply button to her comment.
            So this is for you Linda/Lucy: I am also currently going through the divorce proceedings. It has been nine months and he is dragging his feet but blaming our attorneys. It is costing a fortune in money and emotions. I really do miss people and I’m not sure the best way to make friends since I work at home. I do have ideas – but when it comes down to getting out there, I tend to talk myself out of it . I just feel very vulnerable right now and even though being alone is lonely – sometimes I think it’s what I need at this moment.

    6. Forty years thats a long time. It is like having to let go a family member. How could you not have some love and feelings.
      The important part here is that he blames you for not “forgiving and forgetting” without taking true accountability for the actions or behaviors that you are not “forgiving and forgetting” or making any effort to change the behaviors that put in the need to forgive or forget. I personally do not believe in the forget part. Even when making the choice to forgive someone it does not mean we forget nor do I think we should forget lest we miss a valuable lesson.
      The character impaired always want that you……drop it, forget about it, let it go, stop beating a dead horse, quit obsessing, move on from it…………..all without ever having to account for or truly acknowledge the harm that they do.
      Stay strong.

      1. Right E.
        Stay strong. Put your foot down that issue cannot be dropped, cannot be forgotten, cannot be let go, dead horse must be beaten, etc etc & etc. THEN, you know the true depth of character disturbance.

        Oh, by the way, after more than a year of putting that foot down, I am going to file for divorce in a month or so. Time has come to abandon the character impaired ship that will only sink lower and take all “near and dear” with it.

        1. Hi Andy D,
          I am sorry to hear about the divorce. After, spending time away and educating yourself about the CD you know what is best for you. In the long run it is better that you have the knowledge and resolve to detach and take back your life before more years passed and then realizing you stayed far to long.

          Know that we are here for you and appreciate all the support you have given us. I hope you don’t have the difficulty so many of us have had to go through.

          Hugs and Blessings

        2. Andy,

          You sound like you’re ready. And we’ll be here to support you through it. Knowledge and understanding makes us stronger, don’t you think?

          1. Thanks BTOV, Lucy.

            Knowledge and understanding makes us stronger.

            I don’t think 2 years back I had any clues to what was going on. But, I was beginning to see small pieces. One year back, I read In Sheep Clothing, and in few hours, jigsaw puzzle fit together. During last year, reading blogs, comments allowed me to keep on line, and now I am giving up on her now, just few weeks more till I formally file for divorce.
            I am very sure without the help from book, blogs, and commenters, I may have easily spent lot many years before getting out in much worse shape. Even today, it is not so great, I have a kid with her. It is hard when kids are involved, but I remind myself comment about airplane safety (that too I think read here) that get your own oxygen mask before you try to help other, one cannot help other when that person himself is running out of oxygen. I am sure sticking out in a bad marriage will not set a good example for children, sometime it is better to separate then child will get to see two different people and make his own choice. Dysfunction runs in a family, sometime I think maybe my wife would have been better off, had her parents separated.

            What Dr. Simon says about an aggressive person’s need to win each and every battle, no matter what are long term consequences is spot on. It is truly amazing to what length a character disturbed goes to avoid admitting a mistake.

            Sometime there is temptation to reconcile (basically let her go off the hook one more time), but that doesn’t bode well when I consider her equally bad parents/siblings. And, they move in a group. She made her preference for her parents family over me, and that is her choice. And, I stand no chance in front of a group. Better out than grind away in middle of damaged people.

          2. AndyD,
            Just a thought, should you get one of those moments of warm and fuzzy forgetting or should she pull a remorseful I am sorry honey, or she becomes frantic and thinks she needs to hold onto you and promises you the moon and more… just remember this is how another child comes into being.

            Just a warning thought, many a divorce was stopped by this method, only to be deferred for several years and another life in the mix.

            Meant with good intent. Hugs

          3. Thanks BTOV. 🙂

            I am not a person who falls for sorry and please. I never was. But, I used to concede & let things go, when I should have taken a firm and rightful stand.
            She is not a person who will plead, she is far too aggressive for that. But, one never knows.

            And, I know when meeting face to face with a crafty manipulator, things are not really so simple to handle. She has spent a life honing her craft and I just developed some insight into it.

            After headbanging with her several times and giving up on all past occasions, I know she has almost pathological need to lie/twist/minimize/divert when pointed out her bad deeds. So, all I need to ask few question, and she is very likely to go on autopilot. That is the certificate I need, “inability to give simple answer to simple questions”, to conclude nothing has changed. 🙂

  7. Jeanne,
    I am so sorry you are feeling this pain and waking up after 40 years, it was 33 years for me and still shocked. The information that I needed was was not out there like is today. I hope you have read all Dr. Simons to date and his newest book “How DId We End Up Here?” This recent work of Dr. SImon will validate and make sense of all that you have been going through. The book will light up thoughts in your head of scenarios that took place and now make sense.

    Those words he uses on you are manipulation to make you the guilty one even through he is the problem. He changes it to you are the problem.

    I know how you feel having to go through a divorce at this stage in life. You, have to ask yourself the question? am I going to give up what I have left to someone that dose not care for me. The ability to take back your life and fulfill your ideas , wants, and needs. Its is not easy but worth the determination to take back you life. Hopefully, you have family and friends to give you support. In the end you get to find your real self, your interests which you enjoy. You will find peace.

    Most of all Jeannie we the posters care about each other, we have been there and will support you as much as you need. Everyone here is so loving and caring. We love helping one another, its like getting new family even if they stay for a night.

    I wish you were close I would invite you over. We learn so much from each other. Know that we care for you and will support you. Out of anything I can say is buy all of Dr. Simon’s books, you will never regret the small portion you have spent in return for the vast amount of information he is sharing with us. His books will give you wisdom and insight into the true mechanisms at play in you marriage.

    Take heart it will get better and if you need help never hesitate to ask. We are all here to help and support one another. Someday you will have words to encourage us to and help us never to forget.

    Blessings

    1. Jeanne,
      I am so sorry you are feeling this pain and waking up after 40 years, it was 33 years for me and still shocked. The information that I needed was was not out there like is today. I hope you have read all Dr. Simons to date and his newest book “How DId We End Up Here?” This recent work of Dr. SImon will validate and make sense of all that you have been going through. The book will light up thoughts in your head of scenarios that took place and now make sense.

      Those words he uses on you are manipulation to make you the guilty one even through he is the problem. He changes it to you are the problem.

      I know how you feel having to go through a divorce at this stage in life. You, have to ask yourself the question? am I going to give up what I have left to someone that dose not care for me. The ability to take back your life and fulfill your ideas , wants, and needs. Its is not easy but worth the determination to take back you life. Hopefully, you have family and friends to give you support. In the end you get to find your real self, your interests which you enjoy. You will find peace.

      Most of all Jeannie we the posters care about each other, we have been there and will support you as much as you need. Everyone here is so loving and caring. We love helping one another, its like getting new family even if they stay for a night.

      I wish you were close I would invite you over. We learn so much from each other. Know that we care for you and will support you. Out of anything I can say is buy all of Dr. Simon’s books, you will never regret the small portion you have spent in return for the vast amount of information he is sharing with us. His books will give you wisdom and insight into the true mechanisms at play in you marriage.

      Take heart it will get better and if you need help never hesitate to ask. We are all here to help and support one another. Someday you will have words to encourage us to and help us never to forget. Jeanne, stay for awhile and the pain will resolve with loving encouragement. We are a community, a family, that has so much to share.

      We are encouraged too, when we help a fellow brother and sister. Really order the book.

      Blessings

    2. Very well said!! A strong person is always ready to help someone else. We all support here!

      Sent from Outlook Mobile

  8. Amoral

    Lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something.

    These aggressive DC’S go way beyond Mere selfishness. Like the mother. It is all about getting WHAT THEY WANT.

    It’s All About Me.
    by sheryden clegg

    The little person I felt inside,
    Has never been out,
    She wants to hide.

    For the love in me,
    It took this to see,
    Twas not about you,
    Twas all about me.

    No foresight in play,
    I had to be this today,

    Such a drama
    Her way of life,
    Through her mind
    She pays the price.

    I am not wicked, evil or mean,
    I just want to be loved, remembered & seen,

    But listen to me!
    I mean to say,
    I say what I mean
    I mean what I say,
    I never intended to hurt you today,

    All life through I give to you my love that’s true
    Please understand I need you to see
    Twas not about you, It’s all about me.

    1. Hi Joey,

      I love the poem! I, too, had a narc mommy. I am finding out that narcs always get worse over time. The women in my family who I saw as dysfunctional when I was younger are seriously sadistic psychopaths. They are all very capable of brainwashing someone into suicide.

      I was a very shy little girl who was in her little corner most of the time. I was always very easily influenced by the thoughts of others. Now I have my own thoughts and opinions. Thank goodness because many of the psychopaths I have met like to use the power of suggestion as brainwashing. I have even had psycho members of my own dysfunctional family repeat suicide over and over again to try and convince me to go through with it. Hahahaha…. There is a special place in Hell for the demons. The evil ones even try the demonic manipulation on my kids. Thank goodness my young son feels comfortable enough to ask me what’s going on.

      I think that you can help so many others heal with your poetry. That helps you too!!

      Sent from Outlook Mobile

      1. Susie Q
        Your story about the family members provoking suicide is frightening and the wickedest I’ve ever heard. And you are so healthy and insightful and helpful to us mothers. You have come out of a cluster—- of a family of psychos. If you can do it I think we can!

        1. Sometimes I feel like I was very blessed because I never actually knew what I was dealing with. I am very hard headed and that is a big part of my successful demon fighting. I don’t give up very easily. I was in a car accident and suffered brain damage when I was twelve and that was when Christ took over and changed my life and instilled my fighting spirit. I can actually remember an angel standing by my bed. Of course, my family tried forever to convince me that I was weak. They loved to use constant gaslighting. I was always taught that is was done in a joking matter because that was just the way they were. It put such a different light on things when I see my kids treated the same way I was.

          My uncle, that we just visited, told me that he was very worried about us. He is not my blood relative and he deals pretty well with the dysfunction. He really wanted us to move out there but my aunt didn’t want that. I find my toxic individuals wherever I go. I always considered my aunt my favorite but I see things differently now.

          I love helping people and I love reading everyone’s stories. I know everyone has a rough road with each toxic person but I love to give insight. I find them all and the devil’s network is very large. I have a lot of information to share and I will gladly tell all.

          Keep your head up and keep moving forward. Always take care of yourself and get plenty of sleep. The best decisions are always made by a healthy person who gets a good night’s rest. A healthy mind and body are the strongest foundation needed to fight these demons.

          Sent from Outlook Mobile

          1. Susie Q,
            That a girl, love the encouraging words, nothing like taking our hardships and turning it into our strengths. It is sad to hear about all the pain and suffering people like you and the others have and are going through. Its all so senseless.

            I have to say, like you, I get immense satisfaction knowing I helped someone too. I have have a family full of them and they are evil, downright evil individuals that wouldn’t think twice of doing harm except they fear strength. Never, ever, let them see you when your hurting. Always, approach from a position of resolve, honesty and strength.

            I believe there is a hell for them and many times they make their own hell on earth a prelude to their final destination. Really, poetic justice and many times all we have to do is sit back and hopefully, just watch the ride instead of being a passenger anymore. I am to old for this!!!!!! Had a good belly laugh….

      2. BY Ebony Angel B.

        She told her daughter she hated her and wished she was never born.
        She didn’t even seem to care that the child’s heart was torn.
        She blamed child for all of her heartache and pain.
        Did she realize emotional abuse can drive a child insane.
        She said her child was the reason she never achieved her dreams.
        Those words hurt her child more than to her they may have seemed.
        All her daughter wanted was her love and her affection.
        But all she ever got was her mother’s constant rejection,
        Feeling like a lost child with no one to love.
        She prayed to be taken away to the heavens above,
        Not knowing why she just wasn’t good enough.
        Why, when she needed gentleness, was she treated so rough.
        Wondering why her existence caused her mother so much pain,
        Longing for her mother’s love she probably would never gain.
        Wanting her mother to tell her she was a blessing,
        That she was not the reason for her mother’s stressing.
        If there is a little girl out there that feels this way,
        Just know you are one of GOD’s Angels, and he loves you more each day.

        1. I’m so sorry to hear all the issues. I have so many of the same troubles. I know it hurts and having a narc mom has got to be one of the worst. I was a result of an unplanned pregnancy so my mom has held it against me for all these years. I guess she figures that I was the reason that she never achieved her dreams.

          I love the poem and I will have to look it up. Thx.

          Sent from Mail for Windows 10

  9. The problem I had was that me and my brother were the second crack of the whip so to speak. My uncle did not speak to my grandmother. It was all ways, that way when I was a child. The grandmothers sister. Her son Keath did not speak or contact his mother. The same for my uncle. Not speaking or in contact.
    They perfected how to control and abuse more efficienctly . In other words. HOW TO EFFICIENCTLY USE/ MANIPULATE / ABUSE YOUR OWN CHILDREN. FOR PESONAL GAIN AND BENEFIT.

    The mother and grandmother became THOSE WOLFS IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING. I now see everything. The problem I have now is that every thing I remember as a child apart from the abuse. Is in fact a Lie. My hole childhood is one enormous lie. The gifts,presents, supposedly happy times. All lies. The abuse the tears, The knife at my throat. THE TRUTH.
    The last thing my mother said to me was ” F~~~ing shut your mouth”.

    The trouble is. That was, my mother
    R “

      1. I have got to agree. That blood bond is a hard one to break. To this day I still dream of a loving family and not a dysfunctional one. When I was married to the psycho he used to throw it in my face. That is what narcs do best, right?! He used to yell at me and say that since I had no pictures of my parents in the house it meant that I had problems with my parents and I was therefore crazy. Then he would go on to tell me that he didn’t want a crazy bitch raising his son! Boy, am I glad that I got out of there. A toxic sets up the cycle for the abuse to begin.

        Sent from Mail for Windows 10

        1. The spouse is “supposed” to be loving and supportive by hats why we marry them. They reel you in and the circus begins. Good thing you knew how to spot it quick enough before he damaged your son. There are such mean evil people out there. And I believe they fit the definition of evil.

          1. I have noticed that my son is very sensitive to loud noises. I would say that it is borderline PTSD. My older kids had huge cases of complex PTSD. It is a really sad piece of history to remember.

            Sent from Outlook Mobile

        2. Susie
          You ever notice these crazy CDs love to call us crazy? They certainly do their best to confuse us. I’ve been called delerious, a Xanax junkie, a bitch, idiot, dumbass, clueless, greedy, and more. Anytime I’ve tried to have an email conversation regarding divorce issues I’d end up verbally abused. That’s why I have the least contact as possible, and have to use superpower self control with deal with the CDN. And I’m the crazy one …

          1. I know too well! It is funny because when the toxic ones can’t break the victim then they start a smear campaign with all their flying monkeys. I have zero tolerance for flying monkeys. My malignant mommy narc even called my psycho ex to tell him that I am crazy and not taking care of my son so he should not send child support. Hahahaha…. I can just imagine that conversation between the narcs. Narcs turn on narcs if the timing is right.

            Sent from Outlook Mobile

    1. Joey,
      I can feel the immense pain you are experiencing, pain that crosses oceans. I understand their truth of hate and the monsters they are, what is important is your truth. These wounds can fester and hold you in bondage for years and for many all their lives only to repeat the horrors. The sad part being one becomes blind to the anger and hate of the cancer that creeps up on them.

      Your mother is nuts, a demonic cursed nut that grovels in fields like the pigs in the Bible. Let her go and for yourself find love, don’t have made the move to where you have so painfully arrived to find shes taken up residence in your suitcase.

      I can’t begin to tell you how many times your posts have cheered me up and made me smile, understanding the sadness of not having loving parents, downright cruel and selfish and at a very early age so very aware of the unspoken words “I Love You”. There are many things I have never spoken of, things I suffered at their hands wondering why I was ever born, I sure know they didn’t want me except to care for their needs.

      At times it still slaps me in the face, but I know Jesus loves us all and he loves you very much, know too, what a joy you are to so many of us. Know this, you have brought smiles when I didn’t think I could bear anymore and your gentle kind words reminded me of the good people in this world who suffer like we do. You are a beautiful kindred spirit and I am happy you have found your way to trusting us enough, opening up and sharing with us the amazing person you are.

      It is very catharic to vomit out all the rotten lies that were fed you, take these things and use them as a gift to make you strong. There are so many lost souls that need the understanding you can share with others who have been hurt like you. You are a great mentor and survivor.

      Joey your mother told you to F—because she was angry, still trying to hurt you and at the same time knowing she lost her hold on you. For me I knew it wasn’t true and let it float in the wind, it was their problem. Knowing and believing the truth gave me strength to endure and to go further, truth sets us free no matter how painful. The freedom to find our authentic self.

      Joey, you are a blessing to all of us and know you mean a great deal to us, we are better people for having known you. Keep the poems coming, perhaps you might pen one from you to me and I can feel special for a day. The others will have to make their own requests.

      God bless you and may your heart be lightened.

      1. I do second the opinion that your poetry is beautiful. I can tell the words are coming right from your heart. Yes, I agree that your mother said such mean things to you because she sensed that she could not control you anymore. I see the meanest things come out of the toxic individuals when they no longer have the control over their prey. I see that as the time when the greatest demonic tendencies come shining through. These toxic individuals are truly demons that infiltrate societies.

        Sent from Outlook Mobile

        1. Joey,

          I could never put into words as eloquently as BTOV does, but can I just say “agreed”?
          Do you write your own poetry as well?

  10. I just wanted to put out there that whoever has not already gotten Dr. Simon’s new book “How did we get here?” needs to get it. I have just read the part he wrote on anxiety. How insightful! I would love for him to write a book on just anxiety and how living with a CD person can create tremendous anxiety in a person.
    Anxiety is what kept me in my marriage so long and that’s what’s making the separation and divorce so difficult for me. It is also the main reason I could not confront my husband. And, to a certain degree, I still can’t. I know this on an intellectual level, but controlling the anxiety has been difficult, if not impossible.
    Anxiety has controlled my decisions and he explains why this happens so well.
    Dr. Simon – thank you. I haven’t gotten far in the book yet but it has already been a huge help to me.

    1. Thanks so much. I looked for the book on Amazon but could not find it. Where did you get it?

      Sent from Outlook Mobile

    2. Anxiety, I lived with it for years. It is THEIR AGGRESSION that is the cause. It was for me any way. Once you are away from them and THEIR ISSUES it will go.
      NO ONE HAS EVER DIED FROM ANXIETY. It my feel like it.

      1. Joey, I agree. I think the situation I lived in for decades created my anxiety and then it fed on itself. And I guess anxiety can’t kill you – but it can make you want to die.

        1. Anxiety attacks can kill a person. Stress leads to so many things. Narcissists know exactly what they are doing when they inflict a tremendous amount of anxiety.

          Sent from Outlook Mobile

          1. Depression can lead to thoughts of the WORST KIND. Anxiety/panic attackes do not kill.
            If you are feeling depressed seek help. There is a diffrences between anxiety and depression. I have experienced BOTH. TO A HIGH DEGREE. Please see Page 144 of IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING. Title “Avoiding Fighting Losing Battles” That Paragraph CHANGED MY LIFE. That told me my ENTIRE LIFE in a a hundred words or so. I must have watched Sara Strudwick Interview with Dr Simon About 200 times. I listen AGAIN AND AGAIN. If I had not found this kind man on the internet I would be hanging from a tree. I KNOW WHAT DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY ARE !

      2. Anxiety
        Body shaking
        Heart racing
        Mind scattered
        Feeling dizzy
        Need help
        Can’t talk
        Go away
        Can’t walk
        Pass out
        Why not cry a little too

        Hello my name is anxiety

          1. Hopefully a good therapist will help sort out those feelings. I had regular counseling for about a year. Lucky I had a good one. And I’m thankful for good insurance. I’ve done a little tai Chi watching you tube videos lately. It’s amazing what ten minutes of it will do to bring down those feelings of anxiety. Every one of us should at least give it a try.

          2. Example. If you wish to climb Mount Everest. The first Thing You have to do IS. Get your picture taken for your passport. My therapist David Told me that. You make changes, By taking Pigeon Steps. Not By leaps and jumps. It is a slow process. The mother/grandmother Stole my brother and 30yrs from me (I am 48). Set your self a small task ( Dig the garden, clean the windows, go to mcdonalds) AND DO THAT. if you experience panic/anxiety continue with the task. You have to face the fear to re-learn not to fear. Avoid safety behaviour.

    3. Jeannie,

      I’ve been treated for anxiety. I think it’s a big part of why I’m insomniac. I don’t get much sleep. I just received my book and will start reading it tonight.

      As far as confronting the husband, I learned how to do that through therapy. It was a life changer. His manipulative tactics would no longer work on me, and I went after him like a tiger. NEVER again would he control me with his shouting, fit throwing childish behavior. I was onto him. So wish I’d learned it all several years sooner. But now, I am very little contact as possible, and I would love to confront him but what he would do it file motion after motion in court and most probably call the police. I’ve got a lot I’d like to say to him, and then leave, not waiting to listen to any reply he might have. It takes a lot of courage and knowledge and inner strength to confront a CDN. They are vicious. they throw dagger after dagger. but you know your truth. That is what saves you.
      Now, I’m going to pull out my new book.

      1. Anything said to the DC can be taken out of context……………………..
        Anything said adds fuel to the fire…………………………
        Over stating = nothing is gained………………………..
        Over shouting = nothing is gained……………………..
        They never heard you in the first place and never will………………………..

        What speaks volumes is

        No WORDS = No Contact is the last word…………………………………………….
        It speaks and says more in a split second than anything or any words
        imaginable. A poker face silence will never leave their memory, ever. The realization, the finality that they no longer hold the strings to their personal marionette will be mind boggling to them. In the meantime, you retain your dignity and command respect. They will know they were not worth expending a word of facial expression.

        I must always heed what I have told you, I fail and think they may hear me. Only, Jesus can do miracles.

  11. Hello I’m new. What is a cd, and a cdn(?) Maybe some sort of narcissist? Well I read a lot of different blogs or threads I don’t know what you call this thread exactly and I don’t know that I would be able to find it again when I try darn it but I’m going to try because I M reaching out I believe I am at the jumping off place I have been shaken to my core and frankly I am surprised that I have survived the last 16 years but most especially the last 4. Well I am alive and there is an end in sight I am wrapping my hands around my boot straps but I have not quite begun to pull them up yet I would like to hear some experience and strength and Hope from everyone I do not know how to say things very nicely sometimes but never again will anybody in my family scapegoat me with my permission or knowing and my boundaries will be respected or I’m going no contact people around me are dropping like flies because I am saying No thank you I’m so done there are the small handful of people that I love dearly and I am going to be setting serious boundaries with them I would hate to have to love any of them from a distance because I have to choose to stop speaking with them I want to be very direct loving and kind when I extricate myself from the drama and when I set boundaries and when I correct people’s very rude disrespectful words and behaviour towards me that have always been okay and now are not this will blow their minds but it’s happening it’s a done deal please help me I am alone I love these blogs thank God for these blogs and thank you

    1. Maureen,

      CD is character disordered. Dr. Simon uses that term a lot in his books. He has a great series and I would suggest that you read his books and as many other books on the subject as you can. Marianne Williamson has a great book also on the strength of a woman (sorry, my copy is in storage so I can not give you a name.) I am only guessing but it sounds like you are dealing with a toxic dysfunctional family. I can relate! I have one of the worst that goes on back for more generations than I realize, I am sure. Often this kind of abuse is passed on because no one has the strength or courage to break the cycle. Well, I am going to do it and my family is out to kill me (in a very covert manner, of course) because they want to uphold their precious family name. We are from a very small town, a village actually, and the family name is well known. I have dealt with these issues for a long time before I actually knew what was going on. I just lived my life in survival mode. I am sure you have to. I have a malignant mommy narc who has been set out to destroy me from day one. She hates when I set boundaries. There are plenty of books out there on toxic families also. Knowledge is a big key to recovery. If you are on Facebook there is a sight called SOUTHLAKE CHRISTIAN COUNSELING and Shannon, the lead counselor helps a lot with her insight also. My family is very toxic and consists of a malignant mommy , extreme narcissist father, hardcore phycho sister, my brother has become a flying monkey and refuses to set aside his ego to realize it, and my scapegoat self. This is just my immediate family but I have many narcissist and psycho relatives. I have three children and they have been exposed to the massive dysfunction and my youngest even said MOM, I AM NOT SURE HOW YOU SURVIVED. I had to!! I was in a bad car accident when I was twelve and suffered brain damage. I had to learn to do things over again and this was the narcissist delight to see me struggle. My daughter (24) lost her life at the hands of the demons. I have many unanswered questions about her death but I do know that she told me that she knew exactly where the evil was. The toxic individuals convinced her that I was the crazy evil one and she could not have anything to do with me or they would not help her financially through college. Omg…this sounds like like a soap opera and if you didn’t have prior knowledge of narcissism, you would not believe it.

      The foundation of abuse was set by my narcissistic family and I married a narcissist and went on to divorce him and married a hardcore psychopath. He was the most physical abuser out of the bunch. He did so many unspeakable things to us all. The Navy knew of his dysfunction and chose to let him loose on society after a dishonorable discharge.

      I have had malignant narcissist roommates and worked with many extreme narcissist people. The scale of toxic people is large and unfortunately people can slide from one end of the scale to the other very easily. Greed is a very strong determining factor for most individuals.

      I just want you to know that we are survivors for a reason. You need to start setting aside time for yourself. Keep your head held high and smile on the inside and out. Narcs hate to see genuinely happy people. I can suggest that you get involved in a church group or a yoga class. Be sure to make time for yourself since you neglected “you” all this time.

      I will be happy to talk to you about anything that makes your positive transition easier. I still have problems trusting people. I have not found very many people that don’t think a nice person is begging to be taken advantage of.

      Sent from Outlook Mobile

      1. Oh thank you! I believe you! I’m afraid no one will believe my story bcuz it is Soooo evil! It’s unbelievable, I am afraid people won’t believe me but I think we may have alot in common. On my way to court, they’re trying to steal my youngest child they tried with the first two then they tried again with child number five and six now they’re just going for Child Number 6. Where our family originated from in Europe the grandmothers raise the children while the mothers continued working in the fields so in America they still seem to think that the grandparents should take the children. Although my mother is second-generation I believe she knows better. They are insane and abusive and Evil. better go now I fell asleep last night and could not read. Well I cannot wait to get done what I need to do today so I can come back and read all this dang it! Have a great day everyone

        1. I think that your mother knows better also. I think that it is just the simple matter of control. I only say that because that is how my malignant mommy gets her kicks too. My mommy narc has always tried it but recently my narc dad does too. Where is the father in all of this? I would love to hear more. This story definitely has a different narcissistic twist.

          Sent from Outlook Mobile

      2. Hello Susie Q & ALL. .. I heard you say (read your email) that we are survivors for a reason. Please help me understand, help me understand a reason, no, I guess I can think of a few myself but, … , … , I guess it doesn’t matter anyway. I should not say that, it does matter, but I don’t think this is a place for a philosophical discussion about why we are on planet Earth in the first place… Or is it?! LOL!

        1. We don’t see the reason we are survivors right now. I think that concept is really hard for me to understand also. I remember that I told you that your story was quite unique. I think others feel the same. Maybe it is just as simple as you sharing your unique story on the internet. I know there are times when we look up and and say WHY ME! I think you show how strong you are and what great testimony you have.

          1. Maureen

            Your story is absolutely unique and I’d love to hear more and hope I can be of help as others have helped me stay strong.

        2. We are survivors because we sought help and want to live a life. We have not given up on our life. We want out of the mess and fight our way through it. We work Hard to get well. We don’t feel sorry for ourselves. We have plenty of sorrow but don’t say why me. I know why me. Because I was an easy target. But also I was lazy in not following my instincts that something was wrong , bad wrong, sooner, like several years sooner. Insettled for a crap marriage. I really did not want to deal with what needed to be handled. I am now and thank goodness I went in strong because they try to suck the life right out of you. Thankful for all you posters and my wonderful friends and therapist.

          1. And thankfulostnofnallnto Dr Simon and his work and his caring for people to provide us with a blog

          2. Linda,

            I sure wish I had found this kind of blog when I was struggling the most. I am sure we are all blessings to each other. I enjoy your posts and you are very positive. I know that is a wonderful quality to have because a lot of the people I know don’t have the strength or courage to shine a light on this world and just fall into the cycle of abusers. I know your wonderful attitude will take you take you far. Yes, we were hand selected to be victims since we are gentle beings. There are tons of red flags that I missed also but I realize that a good mind can not fathom the terrible things that narcs do. I guess I will always have nightmares about the terrible things that I innocently subjected my children to. That is how the unconscious mind places games, I guess. I hear terrible things from my family about how I knew what was going on and how I need to spend time in prison.

          3. Oh YES! You said it sister! I should’ve been LONG GONE! Oh should I have!
            I was a fOOL! I kNEW something was WROnG! I want to tell my story however that could be dangerous to my life and I’m not kidding. I need to think how to tell my story. Quite complicated I think. Aaah … time to go to clinic and a group. Darn it… just want and need to keep reading. how easy is it for somebody to know who I am from how easy is it for somebody to know who I am from these blogs how easy is it for somebody to know who I am from these blogs I wonder or threads what do we call these, guys, messages?

            M♧UR33N

    2. Maureen,
      I am so sorry to hear your story, it seems to be so common today. I hope you find your way back to the site and so many will help you. SusieQ has had her fair share of these CD and she is a great inspiration and has given you good insight and Lucy is a gem. I hope you stay and we can all fight together the good fight.

      Blessings and take very good care, you are not alone.

  12. Maureen,

    Stick around. We will help you out all we can. I’m in the middle of serious divorce issues with CDN. This forum and posters have helped me more than they will probably ever know. And I hope to pass it on. You will gain much insight reading through the various articles. If you look to the column at the right of the page you will see the latest postings by people such as you and myself.
    Susie Q will be of great help to you. She has gone through some major family stuff. My Goodness. Susie is a Strong One!

      1. Susie Q,
        When it rains it pours, and just think all Satan’s demons haven’t been loosed yet. Will have to exchange stories sometime. Most of my family are CDN and several P to boot. This whole world is going nuts!!!!!!

        1. I do agree and it will get worse. I am looking forward to the time when people get what they put out in ten fold! Hahahaha….

          Sent from Outlook Mobile

          1. That seems to be a very plausible thought. I have found that so much more can be learned with an open mind. I remember when I was growing up I was always told that I sit around bragging about myself but as I get older I realize that the narcs are very intimidated by me. I spent twenty years in a different state and I was far away from the toxic individuals. I loved it and I found out that there was actually a life for me.

            Sent from Outlook Mobile

          2. I am not sure if intimidated is the right word. Jealous and envious might be more descriptive. I have always heard that most or even all mommy narcs are jealous of their daughters. I have sensed from a young age that something was definitely different about the relationship that I had with my mom. Now that I am older she is really jealous. I can tell now that a really big problem between us is that she can not stand being around me because I like to laugh and she is very bitter and hateful.

            Recently, I bought a new Lexus crossover with the life insurance money from my daughter’s death. I was driving a 94 Buick before and I needed a new car. I have heard rumors that they say that I don’t deserve it! They are all very jealous and will not even go for a ride in the car or look on the inside. It was a slap in the face for them because they had managed to put a wedge in between my daughter and I. They say that I didn’t take care of my daughter so I should not get it.

            What a circus!! No one would believe what is going on.

    1. Oh hello lucy! Thank you! My phone is about to die I just thought I’d check to see if anyone got back and I see you have and I thank you so much I am going to run home to charge my phone get comfortable and start reading thank you thank you thank you and I will absolutely check out Susie Q and appreciate any and all suggestions or experience and strength and Hope I have court tomorrow morning at 9:30 and it should be a doozy… I would say it can’t get any worse LOL but I know that it can hahaha I have to laugh and know that God is Bigger then all of this bigger than me definitely bigger than a narc and clearly God’s hand is all over this if it weren’t there would be no purpose I think so thank you and more later have a great night until then thank you again

      1. Maureen,
        When you go to court, if it has to do with the CD individual, I don’t recall if you said it was a divorce. Try not to look at them and whatever do not respond other than answering the questions you are asked. Pause and give yourself several seconds before answering. Don’t smirk, don’t make unnecessary remarks, present yourself in a dignified adult manner and answer the questions asked likewise. Even if they are lying don’t stoop to their level or the judge will conclude both parties are at equally at fault. Instead of looking at them, look at and speak to the judge or commissioner. In the end the CD always manage to hang themselves, patience is a virtue that will be an asset if you have ongoing problems.

        Good luck and blessings

        1. Gee whiz, thank you! I wish I would’ve seen that before I went to court! I think I did well in this area, except one time, my lawyer just put her hand on mine and gave me a stern look and I said nothing. I wanted to start screaming tho I tell ya! I wanted to just start yelling the truth! I’m gonna have another crying say I think. Thank you thank you thank you

          M♧UR33N

        2. Typo … I’m going to have another, What I call, a crying day. Hope the tears can flow today. My eyes and head hurt cuz the tears are a frozen glacier behind my eyeballs . I also have scleritis , which is rheumatoid arthritis in the sclera of my eyes so they hurt anyway go figure LOL

          M♧UR33N

          1. Maureen,

            Awe.. 🙁 Cry as much as you need. It’s healing. (but makes my head pound) Cry till you have none left. I”ll tell you, I cried for three months straight when I found out what the STBX was up to. Then . . . . IT STOPPED. I’ve said this before, when the tears stopped boy was I angry. There is a good reason why we cry. It’s healing. And if you want to cry AND scream, get in a hot shower and scream it out!

    2. Maureen,
      Why don’t you tell us about that one lady you knee with the nutty family and all those kids. Didn’t you say it was about a lady a the group named Mary and she had a family like SusieQ. Sure would like to hear about that lady.

  13. Susie Q

    I would never have thought my husband would turn on me such that he has. But yes I saw the red flags and he really changed for the much worse the last five years. Having a whole family turn on you and abuse and make life miserable is a hard one to bear for you but you seem to have such a clear vision of them and their ill will that they have a hard time of breaking you. What the hell is wrong with these people? Evilness. I imagine you dream of being able to move you and your son away from all the negative energy surrounding you. I only have one CDN and that is more than enough. I cannot imagine a family of them. Disengagement would be the only way to go I guess. These people literally stink! Their ugly inside reeks. I feel like I have a giant life sucking leech hanging on my back. Once I divorce that !!!! A weight will be lifted. But in the meantime I want to live a good life and try hard to not let the “when I’m finally divorced” then I’ll get my life back. It’s hard to not let him steal my life away.

    1. My special insight into this family of narcs is a wonderful god-given quality that I have had for quite a while. Long story and very confusing, I know!! My family tries hard to convince me that I am crazy when I say this. They keep telling me that I really need to see a psychologist. I don’t even mention my gift at all anymore. I really don’t care what they think. My son is very sensitive also.

      I have reason to believe that they are some of the ones that the Bible speaks of in 2 Timothy. I know my son and I need to get out of here FAST! This kind of blog is so important to me because I deal with major dysfunction everyday. Any lay person can not understand the issue or most of the time they DON’T EVEN CARE! I have spent most of my life trying to tell someone what was going on. I really don’t care anymore who believes me. I usually don’t mention it to most people. Being able to think out of the box is something most people lack.

      1. Susie Q,
        You would be surprised to find out how many families are so screwed up and strong enough to break free and divorce the dysfunctional family, I did.

        Are you in the states or Europe like so many others? And, yes, I did as 2 Timothy said to get away from them. Good for you, keep your eye on the prize, storm warnings are on the near horizon. Draw close to like minded for support.

        Blessings, you are not alone.

        1. Btov,

          I do realize that there are many dysfunctional families out there. I saw many first hard and witnessed how the cycle goes on and on. It seems to be the most awful kind of mental abuse. It is truly a gift that keeps on giving and giving. I can’t believe that such demons are actually on the earth. I have uncovered a tremendous amount of evil.

          I love the way you write. Your last reply to Lucy was great and I enjoy when someone actually relates to the issues that I have dealt with. When you said that you always wanted to be the one to put a band aid on any problems on a relationship, I could relate. My ex-psycho even laid his head in my lap and told me that so many women did not want to deal with him because he had so much baggage. Of course I wanted to show him that I could help and give him hope. Well, that was quite stupid of me because I had no idea what kind of hell I was opening myself up to. He came from a very dysfunctional family also but chose to continue the cycle. (CHOSE – That is one of the huge points that I learned from therapy) Anyway, I will never attempt to fix a man again. That’s why I am single! I get more pleasure from doing it myself or letting my son watch me do things that no one said I could.

          My family has gone to drastic measures. They can’t get to me so they have moved onto damaging my kids. My daughter was killed in a car accident about a year ago. This all seems very fishy to me. The private investigator uncovered some things that don’t sit very well with me. I think all the narcs had something to do with it. My older son was around my parents for about six months and he had to leave. He told me that he was always in a bad mood here. My youngest son was not exposed to the massive dysfunction at a young age like the others. My family tried to break him also. He is very wise and chose to stay by my side. He tells me a lot THANKS FOR KEEPING ME STRONG MOM.

          Sent from Outlook Mobile

          1. It really does but sometimes I just wish I could get out of survival mode. You gotta keep looking ahead for the goal. My son tells me, “Thanks for giving me strength!”

            Sent from Outlook Mobile

    2. Lucy,
      I hope he moves far away a divorce doesn’t always solve the cling-on removal. Mine is still a couple hundred miles and still acts up. I have the resolve now just to laugh him off.

      Now one thing I have to admit, when I met him I was young and naive and I had this really, really silly notion I could fix those minor flaws which were in actuality giant red flags. Instead I was doing all the CPR and first aide constantly giving and he and others very patiently receiving. As time passed the red flags turned into a war zone with major causalities and I only equipped with my Dr. s black bag not the surgical lobotomy kit prescribed for these sort of cases.

      On the other hand Dr. Kadavorino was prepared to alter my state of perception by indoctrination to covert brainwashing.

      1. BOTV

        I just LOVE the way you write. I had plenty of red flags also but I was attracted to him and did enjoy his company – boom – married. But he was ok for a while but as time went on line you I nursed and nursed. What a waste of life.

        I heard a brief snippet in the radio yesterday about toxic – something – when you have one toxic situation after the next. That is me in my dealings with stbx. Just keeps coming. I’m thinking about taking Xanax daily just to keep the autoimmune diseases away – although I don’t have any yet I dear this toxicity will bring it on

        1. Lucy,
          Lets talk about other other alternatives such as vitamins, minerals, relaxation methods, exercise and other coping mechanisms for later. Try not looking at anything he sends it really is a counterproductive waste of your time and especially draws your positive energy from you and they are masters at this.

          First, lock him mentally in his urinal for 5 minutes. Now close your eyes and think of something that is really comforting to you, a place that is locked into thoughts only for you, even if it is for two minuets, let everything fall to the floor your arms, legs, let the muscles in your face and head relax if not for 20 seconds at a time throughout the day, buy some lavender, orange, rose essential oil and dab it on your wrists while you do this. The health food store, perhaps, Walgreens sells passion flower, serum and take that 3 times a day for natural relaxation. I take vitamin C 1000mg 4 times a day for energy. Try this several times a day, also, tune a sound that is calming and brings pleasant thoughts to mind, put ear plugs in if you have to shut out intrusive back ground noise.

          Work on this little by little and see if this helps even momentarily. There is a saying in AA and Al Anon Let go and Let God. It is good for us too.

          1. BTOV, Lucy,
            Listening to soothing music is good, especially the one that has rain, birds sound. There are several hour long sound-tracks on web. Just let it play, sooner or later it will make difference in your mood. 🙂

          2. The Xanax is the easy way out. I get it. And not so good to be dependent on it. I do have a noise machine. Just started doing a little Tai Chi on YouTube on breaks. Have a desktop contraption that puts out smells. Lavender for now.
            You’ll all get a laugh out of this. When the STBX email comes to my inbox (I have a special setup that goes into his own folder) I squint my eyes so that I can’t read the title and it’s all blurred, find the little close box and save them for when I feel the need to read them. But I do have to read some of them. Right now I just told him I want him off my work health insurance plan so for him to prepare to get on his employer’s plan soon. Now this will send in a wave of emails. I’m trying to save a little on attorney fees where I can by broaching the subject.
            I need to study up on the over the counter supplements before taking them – I know some can have bad effects if not taken in the right dosage, etc. I have a dear friend who nearly lost her liver taking Niacin over the counter. So I do have some reserves.
            Chasing my grandson around certainly relieves stress. He’s two. I don’t think of my troubles when taking care of him (almost 2). I just focus on the here and now with him.

          3. Andy,
            Do you mind telling me where you found the sounds. I just got a clock that ticks like the old Big Bend wind ups from England. Wish I could get my hands on one. I love in the summer to open my window and let the fresh air in and fall asleep listening to the crickets. And it all is free. Thanks I really appreciate it.

          4. I have an app on my phone with calming music and I have also seen CD’S.

            Sent from Outlook Mobile

      2. Btov,

        I forgot to mention that I pray for the day when God looks inside people’s heart and gives them exactly what they are dishing out. Oh what a day!!

        Sent from Outlook Mobile

  14. Good morning … I just figured out how this thread works LOL!
    A bit numb this morning, I’m still wrapping my brain around the idea that after 30 years of raising children I now have none with me, and won’t again. Is that a tear drop I feel possibly finally? I use voice to text and saying that out loud just shook me.
    This whole deal is a travesty, a big lie. My husband and NFiL victimized me and my children terribly, then my nm, stepfather I don’t know what he is some kind of personality disordered freak of nature and even my grandmother, the first original grandmarc of them all, I think,( I’m not sure about her mother, it may have begun with her) joined them in the victimization and then the county I live in finished me off with them (nfil & my pops used child welfare to attack me) I just need to start at the beginning, I think. I feel dazed. My whole identity is smashed, sullied, degraded. I thought I was Mother… and Gramma. I get to start a new career, at 50! I’m sorry but I wanted to be with the man I loved, raising my last child who is 12 years old and now with my step sister and her husband who would never let me see him if they had their way but I get 3 hours on Sundays now till he’s 18, playing with my grandkids during the day, helping my grown daughters out. I mean, I’ve paid my dues I thought, this was when I got to sit back relax well not totally relax, kids are hard work. but I mean this was my fun time, just beginning, my grandkids are one, two and five. I am so pissed! This was not my plan! Obviously. I’m sorry I am not very spiritual this morning.
    I noticed you talk about being sensitive and having gifts. I have had gifts and been sensitive since I was a little girl myself. I would tell them something that I knew, KNEW, 1). You’re tired, go to bed now. 2). You can’t know that, don’t say that again. Once in awhile I would be brave enough to point out where I had told them it would happen when it had and then I would be told I was a liar or crazy. They hated my gifts and they hated that I had them and they hated me. I was The Golden Child to my narc grandmother from birth to about 7yrs old, and my mom , dad & sibs hated my guts because my narc Grandma loved me. I started figuring my grandma out after my dad left when I was seven. I became the scapegoat at home with my siblings and NM because of my mouth I just spoke the truth as I saw it and that was not welcome. Oh yes someone did ask about my father. he passed of cancer at age 42 when I was around 20 years old. We had a spiritual healing on his deathbed and I believe he died so I could live, possibly. now one more chunk of truth that I am ashamed of. During the worst of this, 6 months ago I could not work and became suicidal and had to move in with somebody. that somebody is my nm. It is dangerous to me here and I know I need to leave as soon as I can, I’m working on it. I only found these sites after I was already here. Living here does not exactly jive with my self care plan… LOL
    Well I have to go to group but I’ll be back later I want to tell a story thank you everybody

    1. Maureen,

      First I want to tell you that you are very, very strong. My hugs and kisses go out to you. I know that there is a bounty on my head and the person who can break me gets a large amount of money. I also live with my mommy narc. I have my son with me though and that is very hard because since the narcs can’t dig the knife deep enough into me they attack my son. He is 12 and it is so rough. I watch him go through the same things that I did as a child. I watch as he is mentally abused and I can’t do anything about it. I tried to tell daddy narc that he needs to be nice and he just looks at me like I have three eyes and I am the one who needs to learn that he IS nice!! I would love to get out of her but I have a group of flying monkeys that keep us here. I can’t say any mother wants to sit and watch her child being abused.

      I can truly say that even though you live with the narcs you can learn to read them. First of all, try not to let them know any personal info about you. This just gives them more fuel to their games. I know mine go through my room when I am not around. They love to go through any personal information I may throw in the trash. Mommy narc even got rid of the trash service so everything has to go through her. She thinks she has everyone convinced that she likes to recycle but I know she just wants to go through the trash. She would love me to talk to her so she can learn some more things about my son and I. Hahahaha…. Be careful about that. Mommy narc also loves to use food as a weapon. She tries to get us to eat expired food and use expired medicine.

      I often wonder if she even attempted to get my kids away and was shot down. She is very evil! I don’t put anything past her. My daughter (24 at the time) was killed in a car accident. In the back of my mind I feel the narcs had something to do with it and I believe it will come out. The toxic individuals made quite the mockery of her memorial service. They all wanted to show me that they were capable of honest true feelings and chose to cry and scream very loudly to show me. I knew that it was very fake and if anything they were crying because they lost their narcissistic supply. My older son lives with his dad and doesn’t want any part of this dysfunction. He came down to take care of the elderly man that lived across the street from my parents and lasted down here six months before he just figured out that they were trying their best to get him to commit suicide. He suffers from complex PTSD and they kept getting in his face and yelling. My dysfunctional family also tries their best with my younger son also. It’s always about them and their evil agenda and they will destroy whoever stands in their way.

      We have a lot of stories to share. We can share and it aides in healing so feel free to talk about the parasites. I know where you’re coming from.

      Sent from Outlook Mobile

  15. Thank you Susie Q and everybody else I absolutely trust and believe what you’re saying about having questions around your daughter’s death. Outrageous and tragic things happen in my life like that, also! When I have dared to say what I think or what really happened out loud it is actually dangerous, in more ways than one.
    For one, it is too easy for people to say “she’s crazy!” “What a liar!” “you are truly mentally ill, you need help” … ad nauseum). That last one is extra evil because perhaps I am mentally ill and I do need help so it’s just so twisted! AaaaaaH!!! This is dangerous because it was a threat to my reputation, my well-being, my children’s well-being, our existence.
    For two, it is dangerous to my life. At this point the only thing I have left to lose is my life, I have lost everything else accept my children still being in my life, they’re all adults and obviously the youngest is with my sister but I have their love and I love them and I’m very grateful for that but that really is all I have left. My NH let people steal and destroy all my belongings a box with 30 years worth of artwork from my children and grandchildren as they are growing up, Christmas ornaments 4 years got burned, he kept my wedding ring and it was my grandmother’s and Papas. He didn’t even buy me the ring! my family gave me my wedding ring and he kept it ! I have never been reimbursed for anything, ever, from anyone .
    My mom has let me live here now and it’s good for my life or I would literally be under a bridge and you know she’s getting old now I thought she was getting better and well she is getting better however she was so evil to begin with that being a little less evil just isn’t good enough . At least I get to know she loves me in the only way she knows how I think, oh my God am I crazy? But I digress… LOL
    My soon-to-be EX husband ( when I actually get myself down to the courthouse and file for D, he’ll be my ex) tried to kill me on my birthday, 2013, and now, I’ve just again, crawled out of the pits of suicidal despair that I went into 9 months ago when I realized I was going to lose in court (custody of my son and not get him back). So, in a way, he was sort of the cause for my suicidal depression in the first place. Well, that’s his second strike in my book. Is that real victimy? Please don’t answer that yet … LOL … I feel real victimy!
    If I went to trial and opened my mouth, oh boy, I could have won, had I lived, but who knows if I would have lived?! So then I was suicidal because I’m losing my son and I’ve lost my dreams and home and family and then I get the idea to fight and go to trial to get my son back, because I realize I’m doing so much better with all this new information and realize hey I’ll bet I could raise my son and keep him safe and I say I want to go to trial , so I’m not suicidal anymore but then a very real threat AGAIN, presents itself!!! I made the mistake of telling my NM that I wanted to go to trial because I could win! What a fool, I can’t believe I told her! I can’t believe it! because to go to trial, of course, would mean for me to tell her secrets, and not just her Secrets but EVERYBODYS secrets! so many people have secrets involving me, where I came out on the losing end and shouldn’t have! so many people have hurt me throughout my life! I took one for the team so many times and for so many people! I mean that was my job right?! It was my job to help everybody and fix everybody to the best of my ability, right? if that meant losing my home or my family or my kids or part of my body, or a career or two, or an education ?or my youth? Or everything I love to do like make music and dance and write?
    that’s okay! it doesn’t matter! give till it hurts, right? isn’t that why I’m on this Earth? To give of myself until there’s nothing left? literally, nothing. If I just give more do more be more love more give more and better then they’ll be okay, right? Because I have the power of God, right? Because I can change them and fix them, right? If I do things just right and just enough and just figure it out, then I have the power to fix y’all, cuz I guess I’m just like God then, right? NOOOOOOO FOOL!!!
    B Yes I’m being sarcastic (sarcasm, from the Greek root sarcazo, if I remember correctly, means to cut flesh). I don’t like sarcasm much so, please excuse me.
    I mean, if I went to trial, all I would have to do is tell the truth and if I need to tell the truth about several different things in order for any one truth to make sense then I would be willing to do that. What that means is, the secrets would be out! All of them! Even mine! I have no secrets anyway, you know? I really don’t. Besides the fact that I believe that I am as sick as my secrets and keep my conscience clear to the best of my ability, let’s not forget that as the scapegoat, nothing in my life is sacred or precious to the narc’s or the flying monkeys, not even when I was a kid. She love to read my journals and if she found a secret, out to tell everyone. I remember at 10 years old making a conscious decision as I stood red-faced and embarrassed in front of all her friends in the front room, if anything is secret, precious or important to me, never, ever, ever tell her which translated into ‘when I have children I will always keep their secrets’ huh-oh! Another Moment of clarity … How many times have the narc’s told perfect strangers the truth about my whole life? Oh my, wait until I tell you the story of when I joined the family company to go to work for the family company and why right out the door never to return….aaaaaaah! And so many things would make sense and then I would no longer be crazy and I would no longer be a liar and then perhaps people would be held accountable and responsible for their part in the destruction of the people, places and things that happened to be in their greedy, selfish, usually violent and drunken way. God help them.
    narcissist who wants something, on a rampage because they’re going to get it no matter what they have to do to get it, usually hurt people. Anyway the attack has been vicious ever since and I’m so tired and so frustrated. I really need to get a job and get the hell out of here and I am so stuck I have been so stuck. The state has made it virtually impossible for me to successfully jump through the Hoops and work at the same time.
    You know I started writing because I was crying and frustrated and ready to just get in my car and drive away but I need to be at home in my space organizing my life getting things done and she makes it impossible! she must speak to me every 5 minutes. I cannot be alone in my own head here, I cannot think. I cannot have space. if I close my door within 5 minutes she’s knocking on it and every 5 minutes after. even if I yell leave me alone it doesn’t matter my train of thought has been broken and she knows it.
    I haven’t had anyone to talk to about this stuff that understands. my story is ugly, it’s painful. anyway, the point is, I don’t have anybody to talk to about my stuff. I have all this shit, I want to it is such a relief to have found you guys, this site, this information, all of this! I appreciate everyone who writes in also and even says my name and hello.
    I am unorganized my life is unorganized, I need to get some things done today and I can hardly function. I am so frustrated.
    Also everybody please remember that I had a traumatic brain injury from now on I’ll just spell it TBI, the left side of my head, my amygdala area, went through the driver’s side window of my vehicle after I was hit going through my green light by a woman doing 100 miles an hour and ran her red. Anyway I was not taken care of properly at all as I was working under the table it’s been 16 years and I have come a long way but I am using a small phone I’ve written a lot and I am afraid it may seem or appear disjointed I don’t know well more to come I’m just trying to sit still and writing this hose allowed me success. I’m alone here now everyone is gone again and I’m going to do things to take care of myself while I can while no one is here. You know it doesn’t matter what I’m doing she harasses me every 5 minutes if I’m happy she spreads her misery. If I’m crying and upset then she feels free to be kind and loving and say ‘what’s wrong, are you okay and I’m sorry you’re upset” and is nice to me, is actually kind to me, it is the weirdest thing. No it’s not it’s not weird it’s really on purpose isn’t it? Does she hate it when I’m happy? Or is it that she is just so contrary she just habitually does it and doesn’t even know what she’s doing? But all things considered sometimes I just can’t help but truly believe that I can chalk it up to plain and simple, good old-fashioned EVIL.

    1. Hi Maureen,
      I am sorry you are hurting so, BIG HUGS, and it is difficult to hurt and carry such a burden all alone. It is difficult for people to understand unless we have been there. I understand about the TBI I have had several head injuries and it can be very difficult to deal with let alone others to understand.

      In many areas they have support groups for persons who have suffered TBI, this might be a resource for you to check out. Also, try the local Women’s Resource Center that usually have weekly support group meetings. If you ever don’t have a place to go many have a place for you to stay until you can get on your feet.

      I understand when you want quiet time, did you ever think of putting in ear plugs to shut the noise out. I have and it has been very helpful. Many times we need quiet solitude to think things through. Can you perhaps go to a park that is quiet, put in the ear plugs and just watch nature. I am sure there must be some place to go. It might be best for you to get out of the house too.

      Another place is the solitude of a church. A lot of churches have groups too, where they offer Divorce Care a course you can go through to help deal with and heal from divorce. It sounds like you have so many things going on on so many fronts it is overwhelming you.

      I have learned that I can’t change the past no one can, we only have the here and now. Learning to let go of the past can give us more freedom to live our life in the here and now and to make better choices.. Carrying the past with us only keeps us stuck.

      You must take care of yourself first and then determine to deal with the most urgent matters and then prioritze from there. Many things we think are important are things that really tear us down and keep us stuck, especially, when we are dealing with CD individuals. The most important thing is that you are realizing what and who you are dealing with.

      Remember we spent a long time and for some most of if not all their lives with CD people. This requires long hard work to dig our way out and then weed our way through the trail of destruction to sanity. For many a very difficult road compared to others, but continually looking at the bad hand we were dealt will keep one stuck.

      Maureen, forgive yourself and let go of the things you haven’t any control over, it will free you up mentally, emotionally and spiritually. If you have faith give it over to Jesus and know that you are forgiven and loved.

      I am glad you found Dr. Simons site and know this, their are many caring and loving people here that will extend their helping hand if they can. Knowledge is power but the knowledge gained only works when we use it in a constructive manner for the betterment of ones own life. We cannot change or make anyone else change. I racked my brains out with this one for to many years and learned the hard way.

      I will keep you in my prayers and pray you have some peace.
      Many Hugs and God Blessings

      1. Oh boy, I I’m going to have to read that over and over because it is so jam-packed with excellent advice, thank you so very much for taking the time give me some solid experience strength, hope and encouragement.  I believe everything you said is the truth.       For some reason its like I can’t let it go until my case is closed …?   I have this idea that because my son’s not with me, he’s suffering and as long as he’s suffering I should be suffering … I figured this  out a couple months ago  and now I’m aware of this weird guilt thing I’m putting on myself and yes I am blaming myself, and I’m knocking it off to the best of my ability because I see that it is seriously sick thinking. I have been wanting to go sit  in my church  when no one is there  and I have not  been brave enough  to do it I am so full of Shame. But since you mention it I think I will just make the decision to go on in. Thank you       the earplugs idea is fantastic, I had not thought of that but that is absolutely a great idea and I will definitely do that.        Also tons of Nature and yes I’m outside all the time,  Parks,  hikes,  even if I’m just outside on the patio I spend hours out here in the back that’s where I am right now,  i basically hide out here. I  guess I got pretty mad at God in the last two years. God and i is how I got through my childhood and most of my life. I love Jesus but I guess I’m pretty mad at God. so I’m going to write him a letter today I guess. I’ve been in a spiritual desert for a couple of years and it’s pretty lonely but this is not the first time and I know better. I’m trying to override my feelings and  pray anyway.        Thank you again for your time and have a great day!

    2. Hi Maureen ,

      I think someone may have directed you to Dr.Simons last Topic:
      Nurturing Character the 10 Commandments

      I highly recommend you read it and start applying this useful tool to your life.
      I will apply this to my life likewise, second to Gods 10 Commandments.

      Take very good care and Blessings

      Nurturing Charcter the 10 Commandments

    3. We are all happy for you. You can always find someone to talk to here. We have all been through the ringer once or twice or even fifteen times. I am also living with my parents and I never tell them anything about my personal life. They try hard to squeeze me so any bit of juicy details of my life might slip out. I am WAY smarter than that now. My mom has always gone out of her way to sabotage me.

      I so have had a TBI. I was twelve years old and very dependent on my family and sure they were looking out for my best interest. I received a monetary settlement and the majority was spent before I even got a hold of it. I am not sure how much I had but I got to get myself Lasik eye surgery and that was it. My TBI was a brainstem contusion and I was forced to learn everything again. My right side was also paralyzed. Oh well, I have done a pretty good job with what I had to work with. Malignant narc mommy was read to put me in special ed. and forget about me.

      When you talk about your mommy narc bothering you every five minutes it is because she wants to keep you walking on eggshells. She wants to be in total control!! Try to stay away from the house. My son and I do..

      Best of luck to you and keep your chin up.

      Sent from Outlook Mobile

      1. Oh thank you and oh my goodness, it is about control! I thought that! I knew it! It is about control, it absolutely is … oh wow!       Yes, I hide from her on the patio, that is where I am right now. Btov gave me some excellent ideas too. You know it seems like I was a lot smarter when I was even 15 years old because I knew better than to tell her anything about my life always since I was 9 or 10 years old and since the brain trauma I seem to have forgotten all the things I knew about her and put myself in a position to be hurt again, but I remember it all now it came back to me,  loud and clear.        my mom has been jealous of me my whole life and she still is I can’t stand it. I just try to stay away and hide when I am here and I guess maybe I will look into domestic violence help you know I had done that when I first left but now that I understand what happened I may have more resources available to me btov really said a lot of good stuff.       You know I forgot about this,  when it was time to get ready for college I asked where my college fund was and she said with a laugh that it was long gone, that she used it to raise as kids, however she was still in college and had been my whole life!       Thank you so much 4 responding I appreciate it a ton and a lot of us have similar stuff don’t we? Brain traumas are hard stuff.

        1. Ya, I do agree with do have a lot in common. I try to stay as far away from my narc as possible. I only tell my daddy narc as little as possible. I will tell you how manipulative and vindictive mommy narc is – The other day I went to a town two hours away to get my new car fixed under warranty. I decided that I would get an appointment to get my hair done while I was there. I never told anyone that I was going to do this but I used a piece of paper on the table to write down the phone number. Omg… mommy narc called this number and told the hairdresser crap about me and how I was such a bitch and needed to be put in my place. The hairdresser did a really nice haircut and style but not worth driving that far again for. He tried talking some crap about my car and trying to find out things that he could tell malignant mommy narc and she could use against me somehow. I will never be going back. You have talked about God given gifts so I just suggest that you pray to God for strength and clarity. He will help you open your eyes to so many things you have over looked.

          I know exactly what you are talking about when you say that your mommy narc ruins your relationships and chases your friends away. My entire dysfunctional family does not want me to have friends. They do everything they can to try to ruin everything. They don’t want me to be happy at all. I have had to make my own happiness for many years and it is really not that hard. Look inside yourself and see what you need. Maybe it is just as simple as going for a walk on a hiking trail. BTOV gave you so many good ideas. Many of us on this forum have dealt with so many of the same crap. We are here for each other and lift each other up. We are all so blessed to have found this site.

          Mommy narcs are always jealous of their daughters. I see my sister-in-law narc smother her sweet, pure, and innocent daughter. It’s very sad!! The poor girl also has my malignant mommy narc also breathing down her neck She can’t do anything without granny narc or mommy narc around. The sweet girl acts just like my deceased daughter so who knows what is in store for her. I know that the circle of female narcs in my family were jealous of my very productive daughter. It is all very sad.

          Keep your head up and don’t let mommy narc see you cry. She acts like she cares but she is delighting in the fact that you might be closer to suicide. She is flaky and probably gets on the phone to rejoice with friends and family since you are feeling down. BTOV brought up a very interesting fact that the suicide rate in toxic families is quite a bit higher. This is very interesting to consider but I wish the legal system was more versed on the subject.

          We are always here to talk when you need an ear. Check into women’s centers and get out as soon as possible and get some peace. ((((Hugs)))))

          Sent from Outlook Mobile

  16. SusieQ and Maureen

    There is recourse to try to recoup the funds your parents stole from a settlement you received as a minor. You should consult an attorney. Most minors have a court appointed guardian as litem (GAL) to oversee the settlement fund. The bank can at times be held liable when they dont secure a minor’s funds but instead allow a parent to withdraw and dissipate the funds. The bank has guidelines to follow. That is awful when a parent steals their own child’s funds and i see it often in court hearings. It is so wrong. And in the court hearings these parents lie and use every covert actions they can to get away with it. Not what we’d invision our own parent to do to an injured child.

    1. Thx! I didn’t know that. My malignant mommy narc got herself appointed conservator and her name was on my checks. I can remember how I was scared because I had never been in a big court of law before and before a judge. I was just a small town girl that was sheltered most all of my life. I can remember her using the excuse that she needed to make sure she could get to.the money in case something happened to me.

      Where would I go to check on something like that?

      Sent from Outlook Mobile

      1. Susie Q
        I believe Lucy is right. How far back are you talking. You can always check into court records. Years ago they were on microfiche and would be a permanent record possibly converted to a text file now. What say you Lucy?

        Not sure how far back the banks would have the records, but court records are permanent.

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